Trade for Joe Johnson

[j804]

A trade almost identical to this was proposed in a thread just a few days ago.

And my answer was yes. I would make this trade. Joe Johnson is a truely excellent player. I think his ideal worth is about 15 million per, but I think I'd be willing to go to 16. However, if he wants to go higher than that, i am no longer interested. He's good but not 18/year good.

From there, the hunt would be on for a big time big man - possibly even a borderline all star type like Chris Kaman or Al Jefferson, and a filled out roster of athletic guys who can run, play defense, and hit open shots.

hes not even worth 16 a year, he basically disappeared in the playoffs

[pearljammer10]

I like Ray's game better

[jambr380]

With the way Pierce is playing, I would trade him and keep Ray. I know this is an unpopular way to look at things, but Ray still has that bounce in his step and is still one of the premier guys in the league at doing what he does.

I sure hope Pierce can turn things around- maybe he is still hindered by his injury. If so, I don't think I would make this deal. Perk and Ray just seem better than JJ.

[Mr October]

A trade almost identical to this was proposed in a thread just a few days ago.

And my answer was yes. I would make this trade. Joe Johnson is a truely excellent player. I think his ideal worth is about 15 million per, but I think I'd be willing to go to 16. However, if he wants to go higher than that, i am no longer interested. He's good but not 18/year good.

From there, the hunt would be on for a big time big man - possibly even a borderline all star type like Chris Kaman or Al Jefferson, and a filled out roster of athletic guys who can run, play defense, and hit open shots.

hes not even worth 16 a year, he basically disappeared in the playoffs

I just caught a glimpse of his numbers vs Orlando. Wow, very disappointing. Yeah perhaps Johnson shouldn't have turned down that 60/4 offer from last summer....

[ManUp]

No thanks, trading for JJ doesn't keep us in contention. After this season we're going to have to rebuild and he isn't a player I'd consider a running mate for Rondo. First off he's too old at 28 he's peaked he has 3 more years at this level than it's downhill from there. When Rondo's entering his prime JJ will be leaving his. Second, I've never though of him as being that good he's a 3rd tier level player. He's not a cornerstone player, I consider Rondo to be better now and will be in the future. Lastly, he is a ball dominant guard who likes to control the ball a little too much for a team with Rondo.

he would be brought in as a second option, which he is more then capable of being.

and again you apparently don't remember his time in Phoenix.  On a team that has limited ball handlers, he has to have a different role then on a team that is loaded with ball handlers.

He left Phoenix because he didn't want to be the catch and shoot guy. He wanted to be the go to guy. I'm just not buying into Joe Johnson as a top swing man. I feel he doesn't have the killer instinct, he doesn't have that extra gear where he can out perform or be the best player in the league on any given night. He's closer to a Michael Redd than a Ray Allen talent wise, IMO.

[Thruthelookingglass]

Pachulia  & Johnson (5 years, 80 million - starts around 14 million)

for

Perkins, Davis, R. Allen (3 years, 30 million)

No way I want that happening to my Celtics.  First, D. Howard and Company just murdered the Hawks mainly because they have no answer to Howard.  We have Perk, who is one of the best at slowing Howard down.  We would be sacrificing almost any chance of getting past Orlando for the foreseeable future.

Second, Joe Johnson's remark about "I don't care if the fans show up or not" was the nail in the coffin.  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, Joe.  The Hawks didn't show much life against the Magic (after squeaking by the Bucks) and Atlantans are hoping ownership does a sign and trade with JJ and bring in a legitimate big man.

This deal would be total upside for the Hawks. Let someone else overpay for Joe Johnson.

[Moranis]

No thanks, trading for JJ doesn't keep us in contention. After this season we're going to have to rebuild and he isn't a player I'd consider a running mate for Rondo. First off he's too old at 28 he's peaked he has 3 more years at this level than it's downhill from there. When Rondo's entering his prime JJ will be leaving his. Second, I've never though of him as being that good he's a 3rd tier level player. He's not a cornerstone player, I consider Rondo to be better now and will be in the future. Lastly, he is a ball dominant guard who likes to control the ball a little too much for a team with Rondo.

he would be brought in as a second option, which he is more then capable of being.

and again you apparently don't remember his time in Phoenix.  On a team that has limited ball handlers, he has to have a different role then on a team that is loaded with ball handlers.

He left Phoenix because he didn't want to be the catch and shoot guy. He wanted to be the go to guy. I'm just not buying into Joe Johnson as a top swing man. I feel he doesn't have the killer instinct, he doesn't have that extra gear where he can out perform or be the best player in the league on any given night. He's closer to a Michael Redd than a Ray Allen talent wise, IMO.

he left Phoenix because they didn't want to pay him (and for the record, Phoenix could have matched the Atlanta contract offer, afterall he was a restricted free agent).  Rondo has the killer instinct, Johnson can be his second banana.

[Who]

No thanks, trading for JJ doesn't keep us in contention. After this season we're going to have to rebuild and he isn't a player I'd consider a running mate for Rondo. First off he's too old at 28 he's peaked he has 3 more years at this level than it's downhill from there. When Rondo's entering his prime JJ will be leaving his. Second, I've never though of him as being that good he's a 3rd tier level player. He's not a cornerstone player, I consider Rondo to be better now and will be in the future. Lastly, he is a ball dominant guard who likes to control the ball a little too much for a team with Rondo.

he would be brought in as a second option, which he is more then capable of being.

and again you apparently don't remember his time in Phoenix.  On a team that has limited ball handlers, he has to have a different role then on a team that is loaded with ball handlers.

He left Phoenix because he didn't want to be the catch and shoot guy. He wanted to be the go to guy. I'm just not buying into Joe Johnson as a top swing man. I feel he doesn't have the killer instinct, he doesn't have that extra gear where he can out perform or be the best player in the league on any given night. He's closer to a Michael Redd than a Ray Allen talent wise, IMO.

he left Phoenix because they didn't want to pay him (and for the record, Phoenix could have matched the Atlanta contract offer, afterall he was a restricted free agent).  Rondo has the killer instinct, Johnson can be his second banana.

Phoenix offered Joe Johnson a max contract. Not initially but before they agreed to a sign and trade. Joe refused the deal because of Phoenix's attempts to low ball him + his interest in becoming "the man" somewhere else which wouldn't have happened in Phoenix.

[Moranis]

No thanks, trading for JJ doesn't keep us in contention. After this season we're going to have to rebuild and he isn't a player I'd consider a running mate for Rondo. First off he's too old at 28 he's peaked he has 3 more years at this level than it's downhill from there. When Rondo's entering his prime JJ will be leaving his. Second, I've never though of him as being that good he's a 3rd tier level player. He's not a cornerstone player, I consider Rondo to be better now and will be in the future. Lastly, he is a ball dominant guard who likes to control the ball a little too much for a team with Rondo.

he would be brought in as a second option, which he is more then capable of being.

and again you apparently don't remember his time in Phoenix.  On a team that has limited ball handlers, he has to have a different role then on a team that is loaded with ball handlers.

He left Phoenix because he didn't want to be the catch and shoot guy. He wanted to be the go to guy. I'm just not buying into Joe Johnson as a top swing man. I feel he doesn't have the killer instinct, he doesn't have that extra gear where he can out perform or be the best player in the league on any given night. He's closer to a Michael Redd than a Ray Allen talent wise, IMO.

he left Phoenix because they didn't want to pay him (and for the record, Phoenix could have matched the Atlanta contract offer, afterall he was a restricted free agent).  Rondo has the killer instinct, Johnson can be his second banana.

Phoenix offered Joe Johnson a max contract. Not initially but before they agreed to a sign and trade. Joe refused the deal because of Phoenix's attempts to low ball him + his interest in becoming "the man" somewhere else which wouldn't have happened in Phoenix.

The year before he was a free agent, Johnson wanted an extension of 6 years, 50 million (suns were at 6 years, 45 million) and Johnson would have been happy to remain the 4th option on the Suns had they given him the extra 5 million.  His last year was a good one so the Suns increased their offer by 15 million (6 years, 60 million).  I haven't seen anything indicating they offered any more than that and that just happens to be way less then the 5 year, 70 million contract he signed with the Hawks.  Johnson felt he was disrespected by Suns ownership (in the discussions during both summers) and asked them not to match, but the Suns absolutely could have matched the contract, but ultimately they were just too cheap to pay him.

[moiso]

I don't know what is going on with Johnson in these playoffs, but I don't think it represents what Johnson is as a player.  He has always been much better, and also pretty clutch in the playoffs.

[P2]

Ray > Johnson, /thread.

[wiley]

Joe Johnson is great.  I'd love to get him.  I just don't want to give up a bunch of stuff to do it...

[Brendan]

Pass with extreme prejudice.  The guy doesn't have a winners personality. And he's not the type of guard I want alongside Rondo.  I want a finisher not someone that shoots set shots. 

so you don't want Ray Allen back then.

Joe Johnson loves his isos and his post-ups.  When he's at his best he's making shots that look like bad selection but go in anyway.  Ray Allen is always running around screens and going in for acrobatic layups.  He takes open looks with the occasional difficult leaner or floater. Very different players.

Right on TP.

Basically JJ is like PP. I'd be fine running JJ and Ray Allen out at the wings, but I wouldn't be a fan of PP and JJ with Rondo. Unless you thought PP could morph into a running around catching and shooting guy.

[gpap]

No thanks, trading for JJ doesn't keep us in contention. After this season we're going to have to rebuild and he isn't a player I'd consider a running mate for Rondo. First off he's too old at 28 he's peaked he has 3 more years at this level than it's downhill from there. When Rondo's entering his prime JJ will be leaving his. Second, I've never though of him as being that good he's a 3rd tier level player. He's not a cornerstone player, I consider Rondo to be better now and will be in the future. Lastly, he is a ball dominant guard who likes to control the ball a little too much for a team with Rondo.

There's my favorite word again....rebuild!
Boy I love when people on this blog use this word...(ralph!)

[openairmovie]

no no no...and no    giving up way too much