Celtics Summer Game Plan

[FallGuy]

Mike Gorman has no credibility.

It's best to put conditionals like probably or most likely in his statements when they regard the Celtics future plans.

Wow, I don't think I have ever heard someone say something negative about Mike Gorman before.

Do we know that he did not put conditionals, or say that it was his opinion?  I would want to hear this statement in context before saying something like that.

Generally, Mike is one of the better guys in the media of NOT throwing things out there without saying that it is his opinion, and he almost never claims anything is inside information.

My read exactly. And he made the logical point that, yes, the Celtics have decided to build around Rondo. That's what the contract signified. And to maximize his talents, they want certain kinds of players alongside him.

Funny to think that one interpretation of your comment could be that the Celtics might not think that Rondo's talents are maximized with Perk, KG, Ray and Paul alongside him.

<laughs>

Okay, that's fair. Let me modify that - "And to maximize his talents GOING FORWARD, they want certain kinds of players alongside him."

I really don't think this is a sweep Paul and KG out of town thing. I think it's a rebuild on the fly thing. With no return to the 18-game-losing-streaks of years past.

[Evantime34]

I'm sure they will try to surround Rondo with long athletic players that compliment his talents. But there is only so much they can do in the position they are in.

KG's not going anywhere, Sheed isn't going anywhere, Pierce isn't going anywhere.

If we don't sign Ray we could conceivable replace him with a longer more athletic player. However, we will be doing that with either the vet minimum or the MLE (in a year where a lot of teams have cap space and will end up overspending for the 2nd tier guys after the top notch fa are gone). So if we decide to forgoe Ray in favor of a young athletic player chances are that player really won't be that good.

This reasoning leads me to believe next years team will be Ray, Rondo, Perk, Pierce, Sheed, Baby, KG and TA plus young athletic players that would be good with Rondo.

[ManUp]

Mike Gorman has no credibility.

It's best to put conditionals like probably or most likely in his statements when they regard the Celtics future plans.

Wow, I don't think I have ever heard someone say something negative about Mike Gorman before.

Do we know that he did not put conditionals, or say that it was his opinion?  I would want to hear this statement in context before saying something like that.

Generally, Mike is one of the better guys in the media of NOT throwing things out there without saying that it is his opinion, and he almost never claims anything is inside information.

lol, oops I was thinking Gary Tanguay.... My bad, disregard that statement. I apologize Mike Gorman is as solid as it gets.

[Jon]

Unless one of the following three things happens, I don't see how Ray isn't back in Green:

• Wyc decides to dramatically cut payroll
• Some team (cough cough the Knicks) loses its mind and offers Ray some absurd contract
• The C's totally lowball Ray (say less than the MLE) and Ray leaves in spite

Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want him to go.  The C's have no cap room with him here or not, they can still use the MLE (Wyc willing) with him here, and there's very little chance that anyone offers him more than the MLE (particularly not for more than 1 year; some team might offer him say a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if they miss out on all the Free Agents and want to try again next year).  

I'd love to see him back at 2 years, 8-10 million a year.  He'd give the C's one more year of competitiveness, and then if things are going nowhere, he'd be a nice expiring deal.  

[Brendan]

I'd love for them to get AI v2 from Philly some how. I think he'd be like a Super Tony playing with Rondo, and Ray Allen would be a perfect wing to go with him. Salary wise it'd pretty much mean trading Paul Pierce - so sigh I can't get on board with that trade.

[FallGuy]

Unless one of the following three things happens, I don't see how Ray isn't back in Green:

• Wyc decides to dramatically cut payroll
• Some team (cough cough the Knicks) loses its mind and offers Ray some absurd contract
• The C's totally lowball Ray (say less than the MLE) and Ray leaves in spite

Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want him to go.  The C's have no cap room with him here or not, they can still use the MLE (Wyc willing) with him here, and there's very little chance that anyone offers him more than the MLE (particularly not for more than 1 year; some team might offer him say a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if they miss out on all the Free Agents and want to try again next year).  

I'd love to see him back at 2 years, 8-10 million a year.  He'd give the C's one more year of competitiveness, and then if things are going nowhere, he'd be a nice expiring deal.  

I think the most likely way Ray leaves (and that's what I think will happen unless we win the title) is through a S&T.

[Jon]

Unless one of the following three things happens, I don't see how Ray isn't back in Green:

• Wyc decides to dramatically cut payroll
• Some team (cough cough the Knicks) loses its mind and offers Ray some absurd contract
• The C's totally lowball Ray (say less than the MLE) and Ray leaves in spite

Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want him to go.  The C's have no cap room with him here or not, they can still use the MLE (Wyc willing) with him here, and there's very little chance that anyone offers him more than the MLE (particularly not for more than 1 year; some team might offer him say a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if they miss out on all the Free Agents and want to try again next year).  

I'd love to see him back at 2 years, 8-10 million a year.  He'd give the C's one more year of competitiveness, and then if things are going nowhere, he'd be a nice expiring deal.  

I think the most likely way Ray leaves (and that's what I think will happen unless we win the title) is through a S&T.

But what's the real appeal for another team to sign and trade for Ray?  If it's a young and good player that the team is offering, why would they offer such a player for Ray?  If it's junk, why would we want it?  If it's MLE or less, why would they bother making a trade?

There may be some deals out there, but I'm not seeing a lot of sign and trade opportunities out there for Ray. 

[wiley]

I'd love for them to get AI v2 from Philly some how. I think he'd be like a Super Tony playing with Rondo, and Ray Allen would be a perfect wing to go with him. Salary wise it'd pretty much mean trading Paul Pierce - so sigh I can't get on board with that trade.

Well, as special as it would be to see Paul retire as a Celtic, there are some downsides to it....for him and for the team......

I mean, the special thing would be the retirement ceremony itself, after a long and fruitful career....But, how pleasurable will those last 2 or 3 years be if 1.  he's not as good  2. he's not the true leader  3.  His play drops off dramatically  4.  he hates coming off the bench, etc....And finally, if he can't be a major contributor to our success (I take it all back if he's ready to transition to great bench player/cheerleader going forward)

What I couldn't stand would be for Paul to end up with a non-contening, really bad team...he probably wouldn't even do it....But, might he not enjoy playing with Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin and the Clips for a couple of years in his hometown?  

He can still come back to Boston and do the ceremony thing....he'll still get massive ovations on his return visits...I mean, just as aging sucks, so does being an aging star.....whether or not you stick it out till the end with your original team...

I think the team needs to get super athletic.....next year and not two years down the road...
I actually believe we could to all the way this year, but I don't think we can repeat with all 3 of the big 3 still starting.  One of the big 3 has to go after this year, imo.....

If I don't think sentimentally, I think the best thing for the Celts would be keeping Ray and KG and trading Paul.....(but again, I wouldn't send him just anywhere....he'd have to give approval......S.A.?  Clips?  Dallas?  Hornets?)  So, bring on Andre Iguodala and fill out the squad with hungry, athletic defenders.....

okay I take it all back....just draft Damion James and keep everything else the same...

[nickagneta]

okay I take it all back....just draft Damion James and keep everything else the same...

TP4U...I like the way you think.

[Chris]

Unless one of the following three things happens, I don't see how Ray isn't back in Green:

• Wyc decides to dramatically cut payroll
• Some team (cough cough the Knicks) loses its mind and offers Ray some absurd contract
• The C's totally lowball Ray (say less than the MLE) and Ray leaves in spite

Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want him to go.  The C's have no cap room with him here or not, they can still use the MLE (Wyc willing) with him here, and there's very little chance that anyone offers him more than the MLE (particularly not for more than 1 year; some team might offer him say a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if they miss out on all the Free Agents and want to try again next year).  

I'd love to see him back at 2 years, 8-10 million a year.  He'd give the C's one more year of competitiveness, and then if things are going nowhere, he'd be a nice expiring deal.  

I think the most likely way Ray leaves (and that's what I think will happen unless we win the title) is through a S&T.

But what's the real appeal for another team to sign and trade for Ray?  If it's a young and good player that the team is offering, why would they offer such a player for Ray?  If it's junk, why would we want it?  If it's MLE or less, why would they bother making a trade?

There may be some deals out there, but I'm not seeing a lot of sign and trade opportunities out there for Ray. 

Simple, you get a very productive veteran for a couple of years, for a fraction of the price of guys like Johnson.

I agree that the C's are not going to make away like bandits on this, but there are scenarios where it could work.  Particularly if a team is trying to get rid of a bad contract in the deal, or if they just don't want the player anymore for whatever reason.

The scenarios I have thrown out would be trading Ray and Perk to Utah for Carlos Boozer.  Or trading Ray and some picks (and/or Perk) to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.  In each case, the teams fill a hole with Ray Allen through the sign and trade, but are not giving up anything they were not going to lose anyways.  

[wiley]

okay I take it all back....just draft Damion James and keep everything else the same...

TP4U...I like the way you think.

Thanks Nick!  I'm glad there's a few out there who don't think wishy washy is the end of the world!

[MF Doom]

Damion James
Paul George
Stanley Robinson
James Anderson
Lance Stephenson
Quincy Pondexter

in that order should be what ainge should be looking at.

[wiley]

Unless one of the following three things happens, I don't see how Ray isn't back in Green:

• Wyc decides to dramatically cut payroll
• Some team (cough cough the Knicks) loses its mind and offers Ray some absurd contract
• The C's totally lowball Ray (say less than the MLE) and Ray leaves in spite

Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want him to go.  The C's have no cap room with him here or not, they can still use the MLE (Wyc willing) with him here, and there's very little chance that anyone offers him more than the MLE (particularly not for more than 1 year; some team might offer him say a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if they miss out on all the Free Agents and want to try again next year).  

I'd love to see him back at 2 years, 8-10 million a year.  He'd give the C's one more year of competitiveness, and then if things are going nowhere, he'd be a nice expiring deal.  

I think the most likely way Ray leaves (and that's what I think will happen unless we win the title) is through a S&T.

But what's the real appeal for another team to sign and trade for Ray?  If it's a young and good player that the team is offering, why would they offer such a player for Ray?  If it's junk, why would we want it?  If it's MLE or less, why would they bother making a trade?

There may be some deals out there, but I'm not seeing a lot of sign and trade opportunities out there for Ray. 

Simple, you get a very productive veteran for a couple of years, for a fraction of the price of guys like Johnson.

I agree that the C's are not going to make away like bandits on this, but there are scenarios where it could work.  Particularly if a team is trying to get rid of a bad contract in the deal, or if they just don't want the player anymore for whatever reason.

The scenarios I have thrown out would be trading Ray and Perk to Utah for Carlos Boozer.  Or trading Ray and some picks (and/or Perk) to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.  In each case, the teams fill a hole with Ray Allen through the sign and trade, but are not giving up anything they were not going to lose anyways.  

We do in fact lose a bit in each of your scenarios (bold as they may be....and not risk free).  Would those deals change who we could sign in free agency?
I'd rather get some extra picks than move laterally....Boozer's great but with a history of injury, and Joe Johnson is great but are we ready to let go of picks?
Does Joe pair well with Rondo?

[Mr October]

Oh man, I love talking about off season plans... but right now I want threads like these to remain quiet. Shhhhhhhhhh....

Why don't we trade -Shhh!
How about we sign - Shhhh!!!!
Lets - Shhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

We're still playing in the most exciting series of the playoffs! And I am way to anxious to look beyond Tuesday's game!!! 

[nickagneta]

Teams willing to do a sign and trade for Ray Allen and why:

Dallas - they only had their core together for 2 months and given the inflexibility of their contract situation the Mavs might want to sign a real honest to goodness 2-guard that can hit the outside shot. A Jason Terry and future first round pick (say 2012 or 2013) for Ray Allen could work. Dallas gets their real SG and Boston gets a fantastic combo guard to come off the bench for 2 years. They could then offer Mike Miller their MLE.

Rondo/Terry/2nd round pick
Miller/Terry/Tony
Pierce/1st round pick
KG/Baby/Shelden
Perk/Rasheed

Chicago Bulls - after missing out on Joe Johnson, Lebron, Wade and Bosh the Bulls sign Carlos Boozer. Realizing they need help at the 2 guard to make a real push they trade Kurt Hinrich, Taj Gibson and a future 2nd round pick to Boston for a sign and trade of Ray Allen. The Celtics then once again sign Mike Miller with the MLE and have

Rondo/Hinrich
Miller/Tony/Hinrich
Pierce/1st round pick/2nd round pick
KG/Taj Gibson/Rasheed
Perk/Baby/Rasheed

Utah Jazz - after getting swept out of the playoffs by LA realize they can't win a championship with role players at the SF and SG positions. So they trade Andrei Kirilenko and Wes Matthews to the Celtics for Rasheed Wallace and a sign and trade Ray Allen. C's once again give the MLE to Miller.

Rondo/Tony/2nd round pick
Miller/Tony/Matthews
Pierce/Kirilenko
KG/1st round pick/Shelden
Perk/Baby

I'm sure there are others and I am also sure that people will think these scenarios unlikely but they do show that depending on what happens, Ray Allen as a sign and trade could become a valuable commodity