Iverson dealing with alcohol and gambling issues (Merged)

[Bahku]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved. TP for the good discussion.

[wdleehi]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved.

What does not feeling bad about someone have to do with helping someone?



I have many students that have done dumb things that causes issues for them.  I don't feel bad for them, but I have helped them. 



And no one is telling you you are wrong for feeling bad for him.  You are the one getting on their high horse trying to tell us we are wrong for not. 

[PLamb]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

Kudos again, celticsclay ... sorry you didn't get your "preface" wish, but I'm on your side with this one.

1.) I'm no saint and it's impossible for me to help every person so if he can help himself or get help, great, I don't begrudge anyone getting help but I don't see where I have to try to help people I don't like

2.) I help people I do like all the time and give to charity quite frequently as well as volunteer as a coach, my time is full helping those people and family and I'm a bit too busy to go help Allen Iverson, sorry

3.) I don't think anyone has broken celticsclay's preface as he asked not for the thread to turn into a bashing of Iverson. No one has done that. We are just discussing feeling sorry for people we don't like, don't respect or don't know. How is that bashing on Iverson?

[Amonkey]

What I always respected AI for was that he was always real.  He never let the fans, the league or the media dictate who he was and that always left people with a bad taste in their mouths, even up to this day.  In today's game where you have players changing jerseys just to shoot up their jersey sales, or guys that will do crazy things with their hair and what not.  Iverson was never that kind of guy.  Whether you like him or you hate him, he never forgot his background.

He reminds everyone of a part of America that many of us don't know.  The street ghetto side.  We can characterize him for not molding to what we wanted to and that may be because the 'thugs' side is not something that we are comfortable with.  He was in your face.  I hope this ends up well, but I think AI has already done a job or reminding us that life is not suburban playing basketball with your brothers and sisters.  There are people in our country that live with way more obstacles, but he has shown that you can overcome those obstacles and make millions.  I think he has already set an example for the youth, maybe not your youth, but the youth of kids living in ghettos.  I just hope that this has a happy ending.

[Bahku]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved.

What does not feeling bad about someone have to do with helping someone?



I have many students that have done dumb things that causes issues for them.  I don't feel bad for them, but I have helped them. 



And no one is telling you you are wrong for feeling bad for him.  You are the one getting on their high horse trying to tell us we are wrong for not. 

Wow ... first of all, I'm not on my "high horse" about anything, nor did I say you were wrong for NOT feeling bad for him, (please point out where I stated that). I'm merely explaining why I feel the way I do ... isn't that what this "blogging" thing is all about? I added TP's for the "good discussion" as well, but I guess that's moot now. Geez.

[liam]

Can we combine this post with the bacon post? I think that would help everyone.

[wdleehi]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved.

What does not feeling bad about someone have to do with helping someone?



I have many students that have done dumb things that causes issues for them.  I don't feel bad for them, but I have helped them. 



And no one is telling you you are wrong for feeling bad for him.  You are the one getting on their high horse trying to tell us we are wrong for not. 

Wow ... first of all, I'm not on my "high horse" about anything, nor did I say you were wrong for NOT feeling bad for him, (please point out where I stated that). I'm merely explaining why I feel the way I do ... isn't that what this "blogging" thing is all about? I added TP's for the "good discussion" as well, but I guess that's moot now. Geez.

Do you read what you write?

[Chris]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved.

What does not feeling bad about someone have to do with helping someone?



I have many students that have done dumb things that causes issues for them.  I don't feel bad for them, but I have helped them. 



And no one is telling you you are wrong for feeling bad for him.  You are the one getting on their high horse trying to tell us we are wrong for not. 

Wow ... first of all, I'm not on my "high horse" about anything, nor did I say you were wrong for NOT feeling bad for him, (please point out where I stated that). I'm merely explaining why I feel the way I do ... isn't that what this "blogging" thing is all about? I added TP's for the "good discussion" as well, but I guess that's moot now. Geez.

You might not have said anyone was "wrong", but your posts have come across as incredibly patronizing, and infer that those of us who do not feel bad for Iverson are bad people.  I know those are not the words you said, but that is how they are coming across, whether you mean it or not.

[Bahku]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

Kudos again, celticsclay ... sorry you didn't get your "preface" wish, but I'm on your side with this one.

1.) I'm no saint and it's impossible for me to help every person so if he can help himself or get help, great, I don't begrudge anyone getting help but I don't see where I have to try to help people I don't like

2.) I help people I do like all the time and give to charity quite frequently as well as volunteer as a coach, my time is full helping those people and family and I'm a bit too busy to go help Allen Iverson, sorry

3.) I don't think anyone has broken celticsclay's preface as he asked not for the thread to turn into a bashing of Iverson. No one has done that. We are just discussing feeling sorry for people we don't like, don't respect or don't know. How is that bashing on Iverson?

First off let me preface this by saying I hope we can avoid having this turn into a thread bashing Iverson as a player or person. I realize some people have strong negative feelings about him for various reasons, but this is a thread I was hoping to just offer some support to him. It seems like things are going downhill for him pretty quickly. In addition to the well reported serious problems with his daughters health he now has his wife filing for divorce and custody for all of his kids. On top of that there are now all these reports of him having gambling and drinking issues.

Today on sportscenter Steven A Smith kind of backed off his comments saying that he never said Allen Iverson was an alcoholic and that he has heard Iverson has not been to casinos in months. If this is the fact, it seems like Steven Smith chose a really poor time to float out his rating and people are trying to sensationalize a guy having trouble in his life.

I always enjoyed watching Iverson play and thought he was a really tough guy that inspired a lot of people. Regardless of whether he plays basketball again or not, which sadly is probably a no, I wish him the best and hope things work out for him.

I think you guys are taking my view way too personal, (for whatever reason) ... I'm expressing my opinion, nothing more, and I allow you yours. I feel bad for him, so do others here, you don't like that ... that's OK. But please allow me the right to express my side as well, and accept the TP in a spirit of compromise, not antagonism. That is how it was intended.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't feel badly for him.  Sometimes, people reap what they sow, and from what I know of AI, he has sowed a lot of bad seeds.  I tend to save my sympathy for the innocent, rather than the violent, selfish multimillionaires going through tough stretches.  I've always admired AI the player, even though he's flawed.  AI the person, though, has never been a personal favorite.

I do hope his daughter is okay. 

[wdleehi]

Where as anyone told you or stopped you from expressing your opinion on this?  

[Bahku]

So many perfect people in the world ... must be nice, but I'll never know. Frankly, lack of sympathy and understanding is why this kind of crap happens in the first place. There's a big difference between saying "Oh, poor drunk driver that killed someone else" and "This guy needs help before he kills someone else" or "Let's get him help before it happens again"  ... there but for the Grace of God. Most of these social problems exist because so many people would rather shut the door in someone's face, than hold out a helping hand. Sorry, but it's the same mentality behind shooting a dog because it bit someone ... just don't think I'll ever gravitate toward that side, thanks ... there's enough to carry that mantle already. I'm praying for AI and his family ... and I feel bad for all of them. TP for the OP ... you took the Road Less Travelled, but it's the comapssionate one, and I applaud you.

Must have missed where I wrote "I hope people that need or want help can get help"


Hope someone can get help is different then feeling bad for someone.

Again I agree

I don't wish bad things upon people but if I don't like them I don't feel sympathy or empathy for them

If they can get help or help themselves, that's great I hope they can

But if they can't or don't I'm not going to feel sorry for them

As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me.

So, what is your plan to help AI? 

I was making a generalization, but I think you knew that. Picking and choosing what to be literal about and what not to be literal about in this instance is a great tool for discussion, but if it were actually within my power to give help to AI, I would certainly do so, though I doubt he'd accept a call from some middle-aged stranger from Maine, (but I think you knew that as well). Some people choose to feel badly for others who are in difficult situations, and some choose not to ... I guess we'll stay on opposite sides of this fence, cuz I'm not about to change horses at this point in my life ... way too many bruises involved.

What does not feeling bad about someone have to do with helping someone?



I have many students that have done dumb things that causes issues for them.  I don't feel bad for them, but I have helped them. 



And no one is telling you you are wrong for feeling bad for him.  You are the one getting on their high horse trying to tell us we are wrong for not. 

Wow ... first of all, I'm not on my "high horse" about anything, nor did I say you were wrong for NOT feeling bad for him, (please point out where I stated that). I'm merely explaining why I feel the way I do ... isn't that what this "blogging" thing is all about? I added TP's for the "good discussion" as well, but I guess that's moot now. Geez.

You might not have said anyone was "wrong", but your posts have come across as incredibly patronizing, and infer that those of us who do not feel bad for Iverson are bad people.  I know those are not the words you said, but that is how they are coming across, whether you mean it or not.

What?!? Patronizing? Jeez ... well I apologize that everyone has their feathers ruffled ... I thought we were having a good discussion here. Wow. Sincerely sorry I've offended anyone. Man ... I'll stick to the game threads, I guess.

Great post, Celticsclay.

[cornbreadsmart]

there are plenty of poor suffering people to care about. lol.not that anyone here TRULY cares. come on, now.

[celticsclay]

What I always respected AI for was that he was always real.  He never let the fans, the league or the media dictate who he was and that always left people with a bad taste in their mouths, even up to this day.  In today's game where you have players changing jerseys just to shoot up their jersey sales, or guys that will do crazy things with their hair and what not.  Iverson was never that kind of guy.  Whether you like him or you hate him, he never forgot his background.

He reminds everyone of a part of America that many of us don't know.  The street ghetto side.  We can characterize him for not molding to what we wanted to and that may be because the 'thugs' side is not something that we are comfortable with.  He was in your face.  I hope this ends up well, but I think AI has already done a job or reminding us that life is not suburban playing basketball with your brothers and sisters.  There are people in our country that live with way more obstacles, but he has shown that you can overcome those obstacles and make millions.  I think he has already set an example for the youth, maybe not your youth, but the youth of kids living in ghettos.  I just hope that this has a happy ending.

Once again a great post. I knew even with my preface this would turn into a debate about iverson as a person, and people would start talking about how they didn't like him. Obviously anyone's thoughts and posts are as valid as the next one. I was just hoping to get some fans of allen iverson over the year to voice their support. Maybe just saying things we liked about him. Like I said I do really feel bad for him, especially not really even knowing whats really going on. Thanks to the posters that have offered their suport, and some of the fond memories iverson gave to the game of basketball. I think a lot of fans can appreciate at least moments he provided the nba. Also, no ill will towards people that feel differently. Thanks for posting either way.

[PLamb]

Let's see you very condescendingly called us "perfect people" and said "it must be nice".....that's pretty patronizing

You inferred we weren't willing to help people with the "As long as it's someone else helping them. Uh-huh ... guess you made my point for me." line......that's pretty patronizing

And then you accuse people of not allowing you an opinion when it has been you that's been patronizing us about our opinion

I am surprised you are surprised by our reactions to what are clearly antagonistic posts by you

Very surprised