Author Topic: Rondo's Defense vastly overrated? (Read 6701 times)

rickyfan3.0... · « **on:** March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM »

I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:42:32 AM »

Been saying it for years...

lon3lytoaster · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:24:20 AM »

He just wants the steals, he's trying to keep his lead on the league, probably. He could be as good of a defensive point guard as anyone if he really put some effort into it.

2short · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:38:36 AM »

A part of the c's defense is funneling guys towards help. If the help isn't responding on time it looks ugly. This we've seen this year from lots of different guys. I do agree however that rondo coasts at times. Maybe this is due to the fact of no backup pg. Well I'd hope doc gets the point across to all starters now. Play the c defense as hard as you can because our bench is good enough to give everyone a breather!

How about Tony Allens steal near end of game! Now that was great 1 on 1 d!!!

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:10:15 AM »

Quote from: 2short on March 04, 2010, 08:38:36 AM

A part of the c's defense is funneling guys towards help.

Only that is not what Rondo is doing. This is excuse has been completely overused and misused. Rondo has addressed it himself. Doc has mentioned it quite a few times, even our great Tommy keeps mentioning how Rondo just has a bad defensive posture and that guards just take advantage of it blowing past him. And you add to that all the times Rondo gambles, and it really becomes a problem.

Rondo simply has poor defensive discipline and has to work a bit on his basics. With his current skill-set he should be a much better defender than he actually is, and at the moment he often becomes a liability when it shouldn't be. This was a huge problem during last year's playoffs, and hey even I'd use the excuse that he was a bit banged up... only, this was not a new problem for him. A bit better defense from him stopping PG penetration from that Orlando series, and we would've won that series comfortably even with Ray and Pierce playing like crap.

Birdbrain · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM »

Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM

I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

Kwhit10 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:22:40 AM »

Rondo should not be letting people blow by him the way he does. He is one of the fastest guys in the league, and a lot of times it looks like people pass him like he standing still.

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM »

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM

Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

Birdbrain · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM »

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

I disagree. I think Boston fans hold him to unGodly standard because they are aware of his potential. They also lack the ability to take into consideration all of his other duties which also leads to him taking a few plays off on defense. Sort of like if you see a player (and his warts) all the time his faults get out blown out of proportion. Rondo isn't the only player on the C's this applies to as well. None of this means he doesn't take plays off just the % of plays is less or at worst even with 100% players around the league.

Birdbrain · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:35:12 AM »

Quote from: Kwhit10 on March 04, 2010, 09:22:40 AM

Rondo should not be letting people blow by him the way he does. He is one of the fastest guys in the league, and a lot of times it looks like people pass him like he standing still.

Being fast has nothing to do with players blowing by you.

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:45:34 AM »

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

I disagree. I think Boston fans hold him to unGodly standard because they are aware of his potential. They also lack the ability to take into consideration all of his other duties which also leads to him taking a few plays off on defense. Sort of like if you see a player (and his warts) all the time his faults get out blown out of proportion. Rondo isn't the only player on the C's this applies to as well. None of this means he doesn't take plays off just the % of plays is less or at worst even with 100% players around the league.

Again, I'm not discrediting the fact that he may take plays off. I'm saying that his defensive problems go beyond that.

I don't know how letting PG's like Anthony Johnson and Rafer Alston control the game as they did in crucial playoff games constitutes as blowing his defensive problems out of proportion. His (and our other PGs at the time) lack of good defensive game on these guys allowed the non-factor Dwight Howard to become a problem for us, as well as opening up their 3-point game.

Really, there's no excuse on this regard. And it has little to do with quickness as you mention. It's all about poor defensive posture and focus. He recompenses this with speed and good hands, but relying on those is just a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

Again, I don't know why this is a debate or why people are unwilling to address it since he himself has admitted to this problems, and Doc himself has criticized it quite a few times and Ainge too, though I don't remember the instances.

Birdbrain · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:52:58 AM »

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:45:34 AM

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

I disagree. I think Boston fans hold him to unGodly standard because they are aware of his potential. They also lack the ability to take into consideration all of his other duties which also leads to him taking a few plays off on defense. Sort of like if you see a player (and his warts) all the time his faults get out blown out of proportion. Rondo isn't the only player on the C's this applies to as well. None of this means he doesn't take plays off just the % of plays is less or at worst even with 100% players around the league.

Again, I'm not discrediting the fact that he may take plays off. I'm saying that his defensive problems go beyond that.

I don't know how letting PG's like Anthony Johnson and Rafer Alston control the game as they did in crucial playoff games constitutes as blowing his defensive problems out of proportion. His (and our other PGs at the time) lack of good defensive game on these guys allowed the non-factor Dwight Howard to become a problem for us, as well as opening up their 3-point game.

Really, there's no excuse on this regard. And it has little to do with quickness as you mention. It's all about poor defensive posture and focus. He recompenses this with speed and good hands, but relying on those is just a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

Again, I don't know why this is a debate or why people are unwilling to address it since he himself has admitted to this problems, and Doc himself has criticized it quite a few times and Ainge too, though I don't remember the instances.

Orlando making 3's and Dwight Howard scoring in the paint is daily occurrence during most of Orlando's games. Regardless if it's against C's and Rondo's poor defense. I think you are extrapolating which leads me back to blowing it of proportion. Which was my overall point. We disagree with the extent of his defensive liabilities.

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:55:30 AM »

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:52:58 AM

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:45:34 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

I disagree. I think Boston fans hold him to unGodly standard because they are aware of his potential. They also lack the ability to take into consideration all of his other duties which also leads to him taking a few plays off on defense. Sort of like if you see a player (and his warts) all the time his faults get out blown out of proportion. Rondo isn't the only player on the C's this applies to as well. None of this means he doesn't take plays off just the % of plays is less or at worst even with 100% players around the league.

Again, I'm not discrediting the fact that he may take plays off. I'm saying that his defensive problems go beyond that.

I don't know how letting PG's like Anthony Johnson and Rafer Alston control the game as they did in crucial playoff games constitutes as blowing his defensive problems out of proportion. His (and our other PGs at the time) lack of good defensive game on these guys allowed the non-factor Dwight Howard to become a problem for us, as well as opening up their 3-point game.

Really, there's no excuse on this regard. And it has little to do with quickness as you mention. It's all about poor defensive posture and focus. He recompenses this with speed and good hands, but relying on those is just a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

Again, I don't know why this is a debate or why people are unwilling to address it since he himself has admitted to this problems, and Doc himself has criticized it quite a few times and Ainge too, though I don't remember the instances.

Orlando making 3's and Dwight Howard scoring in the paint is daily occurrence during most of Orlando's games. Regardless if it's against C's and Rondo's poor defense. I think you are extrapolating which leads me back to blowing it of proportion. Which was my overall point. We disagree with the extent of his defensive liabilities.

Not against Perk he isn't. PG penetration forced Perk to go stop the ball leaving Dwight open for some easy dunks and alley-oops. And I don't know how you can dismiss penetration as having a factor in a team's 3-point game. Yes, they were a good 3-point team, but no need to make it easier on them with allowing the PG penetrating on us.

Again, this is Alston and Anthony Johnson we're talking about...

Greenbean · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2010, 10:03:43 AM »

The thing is, I don't know how many good to great on ball defensive point guards there are in the NBA right now. I think if you watched other point guards consistently, you would see the same brand of defense Rondo plays. The problem is, Rajon is matched up with the opposing point guard for the whole game. His opponent should be able to get anywhere he wants on the court with the dribble. This is the hardest player on the floor to keep in front of you for the whole game.

With Rondo, he creates havoc when he is gambling for steals, whether it be reaching in with his good hands, or cheating into passig lanes. This part of his defense is elite.

His on-ball defense is a myth. I hear that every now and then in the media that he is the best on-ball defender in the NBA. That can't be true and it isn't.

There are two reasons why this doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others:

1. When we are going well, we have a good enough help defending team to offset a couple of blow-bys a game.

and

2. Rondo HAS the ability to be an elite on-ball defender. He has lateral quickness. I think that throughout his career, he has always been undersized and felt that he had to be a disruptor and steals threat more than a stopper. Well now he has grown into his body and gotten stronger. It is time to balance his defensive playmaking skills with his untapped stopping ability.

It has gotten marginally better this year. I mean, how many crucial points in a game can you remember Rondo getting blown by? I cant remember any but definitely correct me if I am wrong. I think when the situation calls for it, his on-ball defense is good this year. Hopefully we can watch him grow into a great all around defender.

Keep in mind, the few elite on ball defensive point guards were alot bigger than Rondo (Jason Kidd, DJ, etc..). It takes alot more than just speed to be a great defender. Rondo just got bigger this year so I think he realizes what it takes. I am comfortable with his growth so far and excited for the future.

Birdbrain · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2010, 10:16:53 AM »

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:55:30 AM

Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:45:34 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:34:31 AM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 04, 2010, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on March 04, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: rickyfan3.0... on March 04, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
I have no stats to back this up, but I defense starts at the point of attack, and Rondo has been getting beaten like a drum lately.

I admittedly have not been watching entire games lately, and it might be that he is coasting, but his defense is not good at all.

He gets a lot of steals on help defense and coming from behind the man he is guarding, but has trouble staying in front of even average point guards.

I only bring this up because I was under the impression he was the premier defensive point guard in the league right now, and watching him closely has been really disappointing.

Is he just not that good, or is he not giving 100% effort?

Very good defensive player who periodically takes plays off like 100% of the league but, Boston fans expect 100% effort.

As mentioned above, this is not solely a "periodically takes plays off" issue.

This has been a problem for him his whole career, only showing a few stretches here and there where he actually plays defense the way he should. If this was as you say it was, he wouldn't have let the Magics' PGs control the game as they did last year during the playoffs.

I disagree. I think Boston fans hold him to unGodly standard because they are aware of his potential. They also lack the ability to take into consideration all of his other duties which also leads to him taking a few plays off on defense. Sort of like if you see a player (and his warts) all the time his faults get out blown out of proportion. Rondo isn't the only player on the C's this applies to as well. None of this means he doesn't take plays off just the % of plays is less or at worst even with 100% players around the league.

Again, I'm not discrediting the fact that he may take plays off. I'm saying that his defensive problems go beyond that.

I don't know how letting PG's like Anthony Johnson and Rafer Alston control the game as they did in crucial playoff games constitutes as blowing his defensive problems out of proportion. His (and our other PGs at the time) lack of good defensive game on these guys allowed the non-factor Dwight Howard to become a problem for us, as well as opening up their 3-point game.

Really, there's no excuse on this regard. And it has little to do with quickness as you mention. It's all about poor defensive posture and focus. He recompenses this with speed and good hands, but relying on those is just a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

Again, I don't know why this is a debate or why people are unwilling to address it since he himself has admitted to this problems, and Doc himself has criticized it quite a few times and Ainge too, though I don't remember the instances.

Orlando making 3's and Dwight Howard scoring in the paint is daily occurrence during most of Orlando's games. Regardless if it's against C's and Rondo's poor defense. I think you are extrapolating which leads me back to blowing it of proportion. Which was my overall point. We disagree with the extent of his defensive liabilities.

Not against Perk he isn't. PG penetration forced Perk to go stop the ball leaving Dwight open for some easy dunks and alley-oops. And I don't know how you can dismiss penetration as having a factor in a team's 3-point game. Yes, they were a good 3-point team, but no need to make it easier on them with allowing the PG penetrating on us.

Again, this is Alston and Anthony Johnson we're talking about...

Perk plays him great but, he is all NBA Center and will eventually get his. Also in the Orlando series Rondo and the C's were missing a key component with regards to covering up his gambling.

I respect your opinion and I agree with you for the most part. I just think we disagree with the extent of the concern and whether it's something more than just taking plays off or gambling. He doesn't have the frame to be a 'chest to chest' type of PG on defense and so he has to gamble to create havoc.

TP to you.

Author Topic: Rondo's Defense vastly overrated? (Read 6701 times)

Rondo's Defense vastly overrated?

rickyfan3.0...

Re: Rondo's Defense vastly overrated?

BudweiserCeltic

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lon3lytoaster

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2short

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BudweiserCeltic

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Birdbrain

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Kwhit10

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BudweiserCeltic

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Birdbrain

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Birdbrain

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BudweiserCeltic

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Birdbrain

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BudweiserCeltic

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Greenbean

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Birdbrain

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