Sean Williams

[fanofgreen]

I appreciate your optimiism, but don't agree. The guys that are already on the team are going to improve with age?

If you're not a contender, you're rebuilding. We have next to no young talent on this team, and if we don't get some the next few years are going to be U G L Y.

I'm not saying Williams is the result, but we're not going to find anyone who's going to greatly improve the Cs, so use this opportunity to take a look at guys who be useful in the future.

Even if the C's were looking to rebuild, Williams is the LAST guy I would be looking at.  He is lazy, has no fundamentals, and has had numerous off the court problems that stem from him being in BOSTON.  Oh yeah, and he isn't a very good basketball player.  

I am fine with them trying to get younger (next year), but he is not the answer.  I would rather they take a flier on Danny's favorite, Big Red, than this burnout.

Example: we have exactly 0 SGs under contract for next year. Think it might be worth taking a peek at Morris Almond when there is absolutely nothing to lose in doing so? I think the Cs can manage a 10 day contract or two...
 

Well, there are games, they are something to lose.

I have no problem with them giving Almond a spot on the summerleague team, and an invite to camp next season to prove he can do something other than shoot.  However, I am not confident he is, or will ever be an NBA rotation player, so I would prefer the C's keep their focus on guys who actually deserve to be on an NBA floor.  

I think some of you need to realize that you don't successfully rebuild a franchise just by getting younger.  You rebuild a franchise by getting talent.  Yes, it helps when that talent is younger, because you have a larger window to put more talent around them, however, the talent is MUCH more important than the age.  If all you are doing is collecting mediocre (or worse) guys less than 25, then you are destined for 20 years of horrendous basketball.

I appreciate your point, though it's unneccsary to take it to the extreme. Like most Celtics fans, I wasn't born yesterday.

The Cs aren't going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight. They won't suddenly become the timberwolves because they sign a young guy or two to get some meaningful watch in practice or occasionally in games. But from where we sit currently, they're likely inevitably looking at a very painful few years of declining production from overpaid players and mediocre periperhal talent.   

The point: The writing is on the wall. The Cs have limited potential and limited assets. The constant aversion to taking chances of any kind on this board is disappointing. I'd rather take a chance or two than embrace defeat out of pride.

So no, losing games (which we do very well already) or the expense of 10 contracts (seriously?) are not great reasons to avoid having young players with a skill in practice or around the team. 

I have no aversion to taking chances, I have an aversion to thinking that players who can't make the worst team in the league would help this team at all.

The C's need an infusion of young talent, I agree with that.  But going after guys who are out of the league because they either can't play any defense, or really do anything except shoot (Almond), or who are complete headcases, and were nothing more than human pogo-sticks to begin with (Williams) are not the answer. 

And it makes no sense to make the move right now, since they would not get any playing time on this team.  First, because they are still trying to win, and second, because I believe that you get nowhere by giving young guys minutes they do not deserve...and those guys would never deserve minutes over the guys on the C's roster.  If either of them had a career half as productive as Scal's, I would be shocked.

So if you want to talk about the C's buying draft picks, fine, or if you want them to go after some young FA's, or maybe find a nice trade for a young guy or two, great.  But if they are going to take a risk on someone, they need a higher reward than those guys can give.

Sean Williams would get PT. There are teams that Baby simply is not effective against. Yeah, you can keep throwing him out there, but to what end.

I still left with the same question: what is the downside of signing him?

If he's a headache, then release him. As for not making the Nets, they don't need specialists (someone skilled at one particular thing). The Cs actually could use shot blocking which Williams is good at. He's particularly good as a weak side shot blocker.

It's really a no brainer from where I'm sitting.

I strongly disagree that Williams would get playing time.  A prerequisite to playing in Doc's system is understanding the defensive rotations, and Williams has never made a defensive rotation in his life. 

I would be surprised if he ever even dressed for a game if the C's signed him.

Have you been watching any of the games this year?
Nobody on our front line is rotating defensively. No one!

And guess what, Sheed,Baby, Perk, and KG all understand the defensive rotations of Thibedeau's system (not Docs), but it seems to me like none of them can execute that understanding.

Physically Sean Williams has the ability to make those rotations.

Mentally baby-sheed-kg-perk have the ability  to make those rotations. but are physically stuck in quick sand

Whats the difference?

I think the Difference is Sean Williams, would play with effort, because he would not be under contract beyond the rest of this season, and he would be playing to prove he still belongs in this league. and he doesn't have a ring, so he MIGHT be motivated. I think are guys are just a little too satisfied with there 1 championship in 08. and Rasheed has been satisfied since 2004, and hasn't cared since.

[Chris]

I appreciate your optimiism, but don't agree. The guys that are already on the team are going to improve with age?

If you're not a contender, you're rebuilding. We have next to no young talent on this team, and if we don't get some the next few years are going to be U G L Y.

I'm not saying Williams is the result, but we're not going to find anyone who's going to greatly improve the Cs, so use this opportunity to take a look at guys who be useful in the future.

Even if the C's were looking to rebuild, Williams is the LAST guy I would be looking at.  He is lazy, has no fundamentals, and has had numerous off the court problems that stem from him being in BOSTON.  Oh yeah, and he isn't a very good basketball player.  

I am fine with them trying to get younger (next year), but he is not the answer.  I would rather they take a flier on Danny's favorite, Big Red, than this burnout.

Example: we have exactly 0 SGs under contract for next year. Think it might be worth taking a peek at Morris Almond when there is absolutely nothing to lose in doing so? I think the Cs can manage a 10 day contract or two...
 

Well, there are games, they are something to lose.

I have no problem with them giving Almond a spot on the summerleague team, and an invite to camp next season to prove he can do something other than shoot.  However, I am not confident he is, or will ever be an NBA rotation player, so I would prefer the C's keep their focus on guys who actually deserve to be on an NBA floor.  

I think some of you need to realize that you don't successfully rebuild a franchise just by getting younger.  You rebuild a franchise by getting talent.  Yes, it helps when that talent is younger, because you have a larger window to put more talent around them, however, the talent is MUCH more important than the age.  If all you are doing is collecting mediocre (or worse) guys less than 25, then you are destined for 20 years of horrendous basketball.

I appreciate your point, though it's unneccsary to take it to the extreme. Like most Celtics fans, I wasn't born yesterday.

The Cs aren't going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight. They won't suddenly become the timberwolves because they sign a young guy or two to get some meaningful watch in practice or occasionally in games. But from where we sit currently, they're likely inevitably looking at a very painful few years of declining production from overpaid players and mediocre periperhal talent.   

The point: The writing is on the wall. The Cs have limited potential and limited assets. The constant aversion to taking chances of any kind on this board is disappointing. I'd rather take a chance or two than embrace defeat out of pride.

So no, losing games (which we do very well already) or the expense of 10 contracts (seriously?) are not great reasons to avoid having young players with a skill in practice or around the team. 

I have no aversion to taking chances, I have an aversion to thinking that players who can't make the worst team in the league would help this team at all.

The C's need an infusion of young talent, I agree with that.  But going after guys who are out of the league because they either can't play any defense, or really do anything except shoot (Almond), or who are complete headcases, and were nothing more than human pogo-sticks to begin with (Williams) are not the answer. 

And it makes no sense to make the move right now, since they would not get any playing time on this team.  First, because they are still trying to win, and second, because I believe that you get nowhere by giving young guys minutes they do not deserve...and those guys would never deserve minutes over the guys on the C's roster.  If either of them had a career half as productive as Scal's, I would be shocked.

So if you want to talk about the C's buying draft picks, fine, or if you want them to go after some young FA's, or maybe find a nice trade for a young guy or two, great.  But if they are going to take a risk on someone, they need a higher reward than those guys can give.

Sean Williams would get PT. There are teams that Baby simply is not effective against. Yeah, you can keep throwing him out there, but to what end.

I still left with the same question: what is the downside of signing him?

If he's a headache, then release him. As for not making the Nets, they don't need specialists (someone skilled at one particular thing). The Cs actually could use shot blocking which Williams is good at. He's particularly good as a weak side shot blocker.

It's really a no brainer from where I'm sitting.

I strongly disagree that Williams would get playing time.  A prerequisite to playing in Doc's system is understanding the defensive rotations, and Williams has never made a defensive rotation in his life. 

I would be surprised if he ever even dressed for a game if the C's signed him.

Have you been watching any of the games this year?
Nobody on our front line is rotating defensively. No one!

And guess what, Sheed,Baby, Perk, and KG all understand the defensive rotations of Thibedeau's system (not Docs), but it seems to me like none of them can execute that understanding.

Physically Sean Williams has the ability to make those rotations.

Mentally baby-sheed-kg-perk have the ability  to make those rotations. but are physically stuck in quick sand

Whats the difference?

I think the Difference is Sean Williams, would play with effort, because he would not be under contract beyond the rest of this season, and he would be playing to prove he still belongs in this league. and he doesn't have a ring, so he MIGHT be motivated. I think are guys are just a little too satisfied with there 1 championship in 08. and Rasheed has been satisfied since 2004, and hasn't cared since.

Again, just about any other player, I might be able to be convinced with, but Williams is a Dog with no basketball IQ, and a long rapsheet.  And he was NEVER a good basketball player.  He could jump high, and that was about it. 

[fanofgreen]

I appreciate your optimiism, but don't agree. The guys that are already on the team are going to improve with age?

If you're not a contender, you're rebuilding. We have next to no young talent on this team, and if we don't get some the next few years are going to be U G L Y.

I'm not saying Williams is the result, but we're not going to find anyone who's going to greatly improve the Cs, so use this opportunity to take a look at guys who be useful in the future.

Even if the C's were looking to rebuild, Williams is the LAST guy I would be looking at.  He is lazy, has no fundamentals, and has had numerous off the court problems that stem from him being in BOSTON.  Oh yeah, and he isn't a very good basketball player.  

I am fine with them trying to get younger (next year), but he is not the answer.  I would rather they take a flier on Danny's favorite, Big Red, than this burnout.

Example: we have exactly 0 SGs under contract for next year. Think it might be worth taking a peek at Morris Almond when there is absolutely nothing to lose in doing so? I think the Cs can manage a 10 day contract or two...
 

Well, there are games, they are something to lose.

I have no problem with them giving Almond a spot on the summerleague team, and an invite to camp next season to prove he can do something other than shoot.  However, I am not confident he is, or will ever be an NBA rotation player, so I would prefer the C's keep their focus on guys who actually deserve to be on an NBA floor.  

I think some of you need to realize that you don't successfully rebuild a franchise just by getting younger.  You rebuild a franchise by getting talent.  Yes, it helps when that talent is younger, because you have a larger window to put more talent around them, however, the talent is MUCH more important than the age.  If all you are doing is collecting mediocre (or worse) guys less than 25, then you are destined for 20 years of horrendous basketball.

I appreciate your point, though it's unneccsary to take it to the extreme. Like most Celtics fans, I wasn't born yesterday.

The Cs aren't going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight. They won't suddenly become the timberwolves because they sign a young guy or two to get some meaningful watch in practice or occasionally in games. But from where we sit currently, they're likely inevitably looking at a very painful few years of declining production from overpaid players and mediocre periperhal talent.   

The point: The writing is on the wall. The Cs have limited potential and limited assets. The constant aversion to taking chances of any kind on this board is disappointing. I'd rather take a chance or two than embrace defeat out of pride.

So no, losing games (which we do very well already) or the expense of 10 contracts (seriously?) are not great reasons to avoid having young players with a skill in practice or around the team. 

I have no aversion to taking chances, I have an aversion to thinking that players who can't make the worst team in the league would help this team at all.

The C's need an infusion of young talent, I agree with that.  But going after guys who are out of the league because they either can't play any defense, or really do anything except shoot (Almond), or who are complete headcases, and were nothing more than human pogo-sticks to begin with (Williams) are not the answer. 

And it makes no sense to make the move right now, since they would not get any playing time on this team.  First, because they are still trying to win, and second, because I believe that you get nowhere by giving young guys minutes they do not deserve...and those guys would never deserve minutes over the guys on the C's roster.  If either of them had a career half as productive as Scal's, I would be shocked.

So if you want to talk about the C's buying draft picks, fine, or if you want them to go after some young FA's, or maybe find a nice trade for a young guy or two, great.  But if they are going to take a risk on someone, they need a higher reward than those guys can give.

Sean Williams would get PT. There are teams that Baby simply is not effective against. Yeah, you can keep throwing him out there, but to what end.

I still left with the same question: what is the downside of signing him?

If he's a headache, then release him. As for not making the Nets, they don't need specialists (someone skilled at one particular thing). The Cs actually could use shot blocking which Williams is good at. He's particularly good as a weak side shot blocker.

It's really a no brainer from where I'm sitting.

I strongly disagree that Williams would get playing time.  A prerequisite to playing in Doc's system is understanding the defensive rotations, and Williams has never made a defensive rotation in his life. 

I would be surprised if he ever even dressed for a game if the C's signed him.

Have you been watching any of the games this year?
Nobody on our front line is rotating defensively. No one!

And guess what, Sheed,Baby, Perk, and KG all understand the defensive rotations of Thibedeau's system (not Docs), but it seems to me like none of them can execute that understanding.

Physically Sean Williams has the ability to make those rotations.

Mentally baby-sheed-kg-perk have the ability  to make those rotations. but are physically stuck in quick sand

Whats the difference?

I think the Difference is Sean Williams, would play with effort, because he would not be under contract beyond the rest of this season, and he would be playing to prove he still belongs in this league. and he doesn't have a ring, so he MIGHT be motivated. I think are guys are just a little too satisfied with there 1 championship in 08. and Rasheed has been satisfied since 2004, and hasn't cared since.

Again, just about any other player, I might be able to be convinced with, but Williams is a Dog with no basketball IQ, and a long rapsheet.  And he was NEVER a good basketball player.  He could jump high, and that was about it. 

In regards to the 'no basketball IQ': I understand that he has a low basketball IQ, which is even more the reason why I would like to see him on the C's team. Because the C's have more than enough b-ball IQ on this roster to compensate for 1 player out of 14 or 15 not having a high IQ. It would be nice to see S. Williams surrounded by a high IQ enviornment, and watch him soak it up. I think it showed while he was in NJ, that he cant learn on his own, he is not someone to depend your future on. He is the type of player that seems like he would excel with veterans who could groom him who know what they're talking about. New Jersey didn't have anyone like that.

Just like Rondo: had rondo been on those New Jersey teams instead of Sean Williams, Rondo most definetly would not be an All-Star, or even a starting point guard in the NBA had he been on the teams Sean Williams was on.
It was because Rondo was in a High-quality high IQ-enviorment with quatlity veterans and coaches in his ear, that he developed quickly into an All-Star caliber point guard. (he had the Big 3, Doc, and most importantly Sam Cassell as his teachers).

You put quality guys around Sean Williams, I guarantee he'll develop into more than someone who can jump high.
 (btw, he knows how to utilize his jumping abilities as an effective mechanism defensively, and offensively (catching lobs for dunks: the highest percentage shot in the game). We dont have anyone who can catch a lob right now in traffic.

And in regards to the Long Rapsheet: I guess what one considers "long" is subjective. I mean its safe to say that Sean Williams has a longer rapsheet than Jayson Williams, but I have a hard time someone hiring Jayson Williams over Sean Williams, simply because his rapsheet is shorter.

Look, I do not want Sean Williams, to build the future around him. I  dont understand this notion of people assuming that signing Sean Williams means that he is the future of the franchise. I want him for that he can provide now, like:

 Shot blocking ( we dont have a shot blocker on this team) Athleticism ( we have 0 athleticism on our front line) Energy (we are so sluggish[even rondo at times]) Defensive minded big ( all of a sudden our bigs have become consumed with their offensive development [perk&baby])

I see Sean Williams as a young Chris "Birdman" Anderson. Birdman had his issues off the court with drugs (meth I believe) and he came back and is playing some of the best ball of his career. Now Anderson is not offensively gifted, he doesn't have the highest basketball IQ, but he does have a very high IQ in: Energy,and Shot Blocking,

[BballTim]

I appreciate your optimiism, but don't agree. The guys that are already on the team are going to improve with age?

If you're not a contender, you're rebuilding. We have next to no young talent on this team, and if we don't get some the next few years are going to be U G L Y.

I'm not saying Williams is the result, but we're not going to find anyone who's going to greatly improve the Cs, so use this opportunity to take a look at guys who be useful in the future.

Even if the C's were looking to rebuild, Williams is the LAST guy I would be looking at.  He is lazy, has no fundamentals, and has had numerous off the court problems that stem from him being in BOSTON.  Oh yeah, and he isn't a very good basketball player.  

I am fine with them trying to get younger (next year), but he is not the answer.  I would rather they take a flier on Danny's favorite, Big Red, than this burnout.

Example: we have exactly 0 SGs under contract for next year. Think it might be worth taking a peek at Morris Almond when there is absolutely nothing to lose in doing so? I think the Cs can manage a 10 day contract or two...
 

Well, there are games, they are something to lose.

I have no problem with them giving Almond a spot on the summerleague team, and an invite to camp next season to prove he can do something other than shoot.  However, I am not confident he is, or will ever be an NBA rotation player, so I would prefer the C's keep their focus on guys who actually deserve to be on an NBA floor.  

I think some of you need to realize that you don't successfully rebuild a franchise just by getting younger.  You rebuild a franchise by getting talent.  Yes, it helps when that talent is younger, because you have a larger window to put more talent around them, however, the talent is MUCH more important than the age.  If all you are doing is collecting mediocre (or worse) guys less than 25, then you are destined for 20 years of horrendous basketball.

I appreciate your point, though it's unneccsary to take it to the extreme. Like most Celtics fans, I wasn't born yesterday.

The Cs aren't going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight. They won't suddenly become the timberwolves because they sign a young guy or two to get some meaningful watch in practice or occasionally in games. But from where we sit currently, they're likely inevitably looking at a very painful few years of declining production from overpaid players and mediocre periperhal talent.   

The point: The writing is on the wall. The Cs have limited potential and limited assets. The constant aversion to taking chances of any kind on this board is disappointing. I'd rather take a chance or two than embrace defeat out of pride.

So no, losing games (which we do very well already) or the expense of 10 contracts (seriously?) are not great reasons to avoid having young players with a skill in practice or around the team. 

I have no aversion to taking chances, I have an aversion to thinking that players who can't make the worst team in the league would help this team at all.

The C's need an infusion of young talent, I agree with that.  But going after guys who are out of the league because they either can't play any defense, or really do anything except shoot (Almond), or who are complete headcases, and were nothing more than human pogo-sticks to begin with (Williams) are not the answer. 

And it makes no sense to make the move right now, since they would not get any playing time on this team.  First, because they are still trying to win, and second, because I believe that you get nowhere by giving young guys minutes they do not deserve...and those guys would never deserve minutes over the guys on the C's roster.  If either of them had a career half as productive as Scal's, I would be shocked.

So if you want to talk about the C's buying draft picks, fine, or if you want them to go after some young FA's, or maybe find a nice trade for a young guy or two, great.  But if they are going to take a risk on someone, they need a higher reward than those guys can give.

Sean Williams would get PT. There are teams that Baby simply is not effective against. Yeah, you can keep throwing him out there, but to what end.

I still left with the same question: what is the downside of signing him?

If he's a headache, then release him. As for not making the Nets, they don't need specialists (someone skilled at one particular thing). The Cs actually could use shot blocking which Williams is good at. He's particularly good as a weak side shot blocker.

It's really a no brainer from where I'm sitting.

  The Cs might be able to use another shot blocker (even though the team's no worse than average in that category) but they have little use for a player that can *only* block shots. The same way we could use better outside shooting from our starting pg. But if we had a pg who was a better outside shooter he'd still sit on the bench because we can't afford to give up everything else Rondo does for the sake of outside shooting. Or the same way we could use more rebounding but if you signed a player that wasn't great on offense or defense he would never get any minutes.

[winsomme]

  The Cs might be able to use another shot blocker (even though the team's no worse than average in that category) but they have little use for a player that can *only* block shots. The same way we could use better outside shooting from our starting pg. But if we had a pg who was a better outside shooter he'd still sit on the bench because we can't afford to give up everything else Rondo does for the sake of outside shooting. Or the same way we could use more rebounding but if you signed a player that wasn't great on offense or defense he would never get any minutes.

If you were talking about NJ, then I would agree with you. They have no use for a guy who can only block shots. (he's actually not bad in transition, by the way).

but the Cs have such a solid base of rotation players that a guy (depending on the match ups of a given game) who could come in and at the very least be a threat of blocking a shot could be useful in certain situations.

but again, I still come back to the same question: what's the downside?

[Who]

No interest in Williams. He's not capable of helping a contender.

Williams needs to learn how to play team orientated basketball. How to play with discipline and purpose.

The Celtics are a contender? What's Williams gonna do, make us worse?

Yes

Williams may not be the answer, but the Cs should fill out the roster with young guys worth a look (Almond, Sims, Willaims, whatever) at this point.

We are in rebuilding mode whether people want to admit it or not.

I fully support any plan that wants to sign one of these players with the hopes of that player becoming a contributor at some point next season. Including Williams.

Rashad McCants would be my first choice for such a job.

However, I do not think any of those guys are good enough to improve the Celtics this season. They just aren't good enough. Their games need too much work.

[Who]

I've never bought the "needs to be better than Baby" argument. At this point in the season, it's about match ups...especially in terms of the bench players. Sometimes Baby will be just fine in a game, sometimes we will need to show the other team a different look..

right now, we have no different looks to show teams.

I would play Scalabrine ahead of Sean Williams. He is a far superior defender vs Williams.

I don't think there is any matchup under the sun that Williams can handle better than Scalabrine and/or Glen Davis.

What matchups do you think Sean Williams helps the C's with that Scalabrine and/or Glen Davis cannot?

[Who]

Example: we have exactly 0 SGs under contract for next year. Think it might be worth taking a peek at Morris Almond when there is absolutely nothing to lose in doing so? I think the Cs can manage a 10 day contract or two...

The problem with Morris Almond is that he can't do anything other than score/shoot the ball which is a bad quality for a role player.

The reason he couldn't get off the bench in Utah was because Jerry Sloan could not get him to play defense, to rebound the ball or to pass the ball. He was a selfish gunner who was out for himself.

[dark_lord]

if there is a problem with hustle, attitude, work ethic, and other things people accuse this team of having.....why would u want to add a guy with questionable character?!  adding guys like finley are better to help the aforementioned issues.

[fanofgreen]

if there is a problem with hustle, attitude, work ethic, and other things people accuse this team of having.....why would u want to add a guy with questionable character?!  adding guys like finley are better to help the aforementioned issues.

Because this team has defensive, rebounding, athleticism-disadvantages, and a very slow front line problem as well!

[dark_lord]

if there is a problem with hustle, attitude, work ethic, and other things people accuse this team of having.....why would u want to add a guy with questionable character?!  adding guys like finley are better to help the aforementioned issues.

Because this team has defensive, rebounding, athleticism-disadvantages, and a very slow front line problem as well!

as we have witnessed, bball is so mental and heart plays a major role in how a team performs.  taking a guy with questionable character with the negative attributes the team has displayed lately leads to more negativity.  not worth the risk imo, no matter the positives of williams' game.

[Redz]

I can't believe the fascination with him still.

[Donoghus]

I can't believe the fascination with him still.

Neither can I.

"Potential" can be blinding sometimes.