Author Topic: contemplating the Kevin Durant era  (Read 5411 times)

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Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 03:44:31 PM »

Offline GaBerkowitz

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Bill Simmons seems fairly convinced that if we landed the #1 pick that year we were taking Durant over Oden.  Other than story about Danny sitting with KD's mom during one of Texas' Big 12 Conference Tourney Games has this been substantiated at all.  A lineup of

Perk
Al Jeff
Durant
Pierce
Rondo

Gomes
Delonte

would have been interesting to see

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 03:50:56 PM »

Offline Chris

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KD is a fantastic scorer but I am not convinced he is anything else. But yeah, I'd take him.

You must not be watching him then.  He is better then any one on the Celtics roster right now and that is FACT.
The question is will he become a truly special player, or does he become Tracy McGrady?

I am always up for a Tmac joke, but I do think you are selling him short a bit.  If Tmac had stayed healthy, and had some luck with teammates staying healthy, I think he would be looked at very differently. 
I'm not joking though, T-Mac had the same potential Durant does. Looking at the numbers its striking how very similar they were at age 21.

T-Mac is just the example about how a talent like Durant can easily end up not accomplishing all that people say is "inevitable" for him. He'll be an all star a lot, he'll get paid a lot, but that doesn't mean he'll accomplish a lot in the league.

A back injury, a bad team, or many other things can derail a promising career.

Agreed.  There is no such thing as a basketball savior.  You need to have some luck along the way. 

I mean, look at Lebron.  What will happen if he misses out on the championship this season, then goes and signs with NY along with Bosh.  Then halfway through next season, Bosh messes up his ankle, and plays about 50 games in his next 3 seasons combined.  Then as soon as things start looking up again, Lebron blows out his knee, and comes back as a shadow of himself.


Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2010, 04:05:04 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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I think it should be called the Jeff Green era lol.

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 04:24:03 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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KD is a fantastic scorer but I am not convinced he is anything else. But yeah, I'd take him.
You must not be watching him then.  He is better then any one on the Celtics roster right now and that is FACT.
The question is will he become a truly special player, or does he become Tracy McGrady?

He's already better than TMac ever was only because of how easily and effieciently he scores. TMac dominated the ball. Durant can put up 25 in his sleep.

Defensively he will get better as he grows into his body a bit more. He's 21!
Sure, KD may already be a better scorer than TMac was but that is not the point.  And I think that you partly made my point in your post.  From what I have seen, KD gets his points quietly.  You don't think he is doing much but you look up and he has 25.  But, he has not consistently shown the ability (or willingness) to dominate a game, especially in crunch time.

And yes, I am judging KD against greatness.  LeBron, in addition to being a physical freak, is a fantastic passer; better than many PG's.  In the last few years, he has become monster on D and started to dominate the end of games.

Kobe and MJ (who are similar) had the killer instinct that no one else had.  Each could score at will (and I would say at least as good as KD) but they could also defend.  Both were better passers than they were ever given credit for.

KD can get 25 in sleep.  But we knew than coming in.  The question becomes, will he develop in other areas to reach the greatness of these other guys.  Or, will be become the next TMac/Dominique Wilkens?

We'll see.
I guess that's precisely the reason why i like KD so much. He can fit into a team game. He doesn't have to dominate the ball and the game to score points if that makes sense. At the same time if he needs to he can create for himself and get his shot off whenever he wants. Basically I think of him as the Tim Duncan of the small forward position.

I really hope the whole MJ/Kobe "one player does it all" era goes by the wayside. Ironically enough, Lebron is also suited for the team game but his coach insists on making him a one man team. Or maybe he is the one demanding it. Who knows what goes on in that locker room.

TMac to me was always a volume scorer. Not very effieicent. He was "the man" and there was never any ball movement on his teams because he created all the offense. He was so good at that at one point that a few of his more defensive minded teams were fairly successful.

But even MJ realized that you have too play the team game at some point if you want to win.

Durant has the kind of game where he doesnt have to have the ball in his hands all the time to be effective. When I see that team play I see good spacing and fundamental basketball. Not a point guard crossing the timeline, handing off to a swingman and everyone sit around and watch him work.

I think what you mean when you say killer instinct is being competitive and ultimately clutch. Time will tell on that but I have already seen him hit game winners and I really think he has what it takes in pressure situations. He will be showcasing that in this year's playoffs I think.


Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 04:29:49 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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KD is a fantastic scorer but I am not convinced he is anything else. But yeah, I'd take him.

You must not be watching him then.  He is better then any one on the Celtics roster right now and that is FACT.
The question is will he become a truly special player, or does he become Tracy McGrady?

He's already better than TMac ever was only because of how easily and effieciently he scores. TMac dominated the ball. Durant can put up 25 in his sleep.

Defensively he will get better as he grows into his body a bit more. He's 21!
I think you're forgetting just how good McGrady was. Also both dominate the ball.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mcgratr01&y1=2001&p2=duranke01&y2=2010

They're very similar players at age 21. Now McGrady was taking less shots and playing less minutes, but glance at the per36 numbers. Durant is a more efficient scorer, but McGrady had some pluses to his game to over Durant.

I know that Mcgrady was once a great player who was at the top 2 or 3 players at his poistion in terms of dominating the ball and filling the stat sheet. I guess I just think Durant has a different kind of game that is more condusive to winning basketball.

To say that Durant is technically "better" than Tmac ever was is off I guess but would rather have Durant at this age than avy version of Tracy McGrady. That is a statement of how high I am on Durant more than a knock on McGrady.

I actually have lobbied for the Celts to scoop TMac up if he gets bought out (which is very unlikely now)

Edit: TP for the stat diggin
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 04:37:51 PM by Greenbean »

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2010, 04:30:49 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I guess that's precisely the reason why i like KD so much. He can fit into a team game. He doesn't have to dominate the ball and the game to score points if that makes sense. At the same time if he needs to he can create for himself and get his shot off whenever he wants. Basically I think of him as the Tim Duncan of the small forward position.

I really hope the whole MJ/Kobe "one player does it all" era goes by the wayside. Ironically enough, Lebron is also suited for the team game but his coach insists on making him a one man team. Or maybe he is the one demanding it. Who knows what goes on in that locker room.

TMac to me was always a volume scorer. Not very effieicent. He was "the man" and there was never any ball movement on his teams because he created all the offense. He was so good at that at one point that a few of his more defensive minded teams were fairly successful.

But even MJ realized that you have too play the team game at some point if you want to win.

Durant has the kind of game where he doesnt have to have the ball in his hands all the time to be effective. When I see that team play I see good spacing and fundamental basketball. Not a point guard crossing the timeline, handing off to a swingman and everyone sit around and watch him work.

I think what you mean when you say killer instinct is being competitive and ultimately clutch. Time will tell on that but I have already seen him hit game winners and I really think he has what it takes in pressure situations. He will be showcasing that in this year's playoffs I think.[/quote]It's not just about dominating the ball.  It's about playing the game with purpose.  Knowing when to turn it on and off.  Making your teammates better.  Duncan, while not the personality of the other guys I mentioned, did all of that and then some.  He also was a top tier defender and rebounder.  And an outstanding passer. 

That's what I have yet to see consistently from KD. 

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2010, 04:37:03 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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I guess that's precisely the reason why i like KD so much. He can fit into a team game. He doesn't have to dominate the ball and the game to score points if that makes sense. At the same time if he needs to he can create for himself and get his shot off whenever he wants. Basically I think of him as the Tim Duncan of the small forward position.

I really hope the whole MJ/Kobe "one player does it all" era goes by the wayside. Ironically enough, Lebron is also suited for the team game but his coach insists on making him a one man team. Or maybe he is the one demanding it. Who knows what goes on in that locker room.

TMac to me was always a volume scorer. Not very effieicent. He was "the man" and there was never any ball movement on his teams because he created all the offense. He was so good at that at one point that a few of his more defensive minded teams were fairly successful.

But even MJ realized that you have too play the team game at some point if you want to win.

Durant has the kind of game where he doesnt have to have the ball in his hands all the time to be effective. When I see that team play I see good spacing and fundamental basketball. Not a point guard crossing the timeline, handing off to a swingman and everyone sit around and watch him work.

I think what you mean when you say killer instinct is being competitive and ultimately clutch. Time will tell on that but I have already seen him hit game winners and I really think he has what it takes in pressure situations. He will be showcasing that in this year's playoffs I think.



It's not just about dominating the ball.  It's about playing the game with purpose.  Knowing when to turn it on and off.  Making your teammates better.  Duncan, while not the personality of the other guys I mentioned, did all of that and then some.  He also was a top tier defender and rebounder.  And an outstanding passer. 

That's what I have yet to see consistently from KD. 


Well I dont watch him everyday so I dont have the advantage to asses his progress as well as others. However if all acounts of this kids work ethic are spot on, he will become a good to great defender. He has the length for it that's for sure.

Ill get back to you after the playoffs start about his intangible skills. I really would need to watch this guy every game to properly guage intangibles like making teammates better and intensity level night in and night out.

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 04:45:54 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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You guys comparing him to TMac?

Actually Durant is more like a more athletic version of Larry Bird... without the passing and overall genius-ness.

THe kid is money.  He takes over games and already has shown he's super clutch.

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 04:53:01 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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You guys comparing him to TMac?

Actually Durant is more like a more athletic version of Larry Bird... without the passing and overall genius-ness.

THe kid is money.  He takes over games and already has shown he's super clutch.


1000 TP's for having the cojones to say what I wanted to say.

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 05:24:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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You guys comparing him to TMac?

Actually Durant is more like a more athletic version of Larry Bird... without the passing and overall genius-ness.

THe kid is money.  He takes over games and already has shown he's super clutch.


1000 TP's for having the cojones to say what I wanted to say.

I believe it though.  You start with the same superhero casing... a 6'9 skinny sf with ridiculous shooting ability, ability to score from anywhere and unlimited moves.  You give them intensity and competitiveness.  Give them both nerves of steel and ability to come through when their team most needs them.  Then you pause and say "ok we only have 2 superpowers left to add".  For Larry you first give him the ability to see the game in slow motion so he always can see whats happening at any time.   For Larry's last ability you give him the superior passing ability of a point guard.  For Durant's last 2 superpowers you give him #1 - ability to run and #2 - ability to jump.

... Paint them different colors and you have Larry Bird and Kevin Durant. 

Obviously I'm going off what I see right now.  Bird was 23 as a rookie.  Durant is only 21.  But it's pretty much what it looks like right now.

Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2010, 05:46:42 PM »

Offline dlpin

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You guys comparing him to TMac?

Actually Durant is more like a more athletic version of Larry Bird... without the passing and overall genius-ness.

THe kid is money.  He takes over games and already has shown he's super clutch.


People are not comparing him to what TMac eventually became. People are just reminding everyone that at one point everyone was also sure that TMac was the next big thing.

TMac was an all star at 21,  all NBA second team at 22, and all nba first team at 23. In fact, if Durant is the scoring champion, it's TMac's record for youngest scoring champion since the merger that he will be breaking.


It might seem ludicrous to compare TMac to Durant now, but that is only because we KNOW what eventually happened to TMac.

And there are no guarantees that the same won't happen to Durant. I hope not, but if his team gets depleted by injuries, he gets forced to play 40+ minutes a few years in a row, and then blows out his knee, he'd end up where TMac is now.


Re: contemplating the Kevin Durant era
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2010, 05:48:35 PM »

Offline dlpin

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Bill Simmons seems fairly convinced that if we landed the #1 pick that year we were taking Durant over Oden.  Other than story about Danny sitting with KD's mom during one of Texas' Big 12 Conference Tourney Games has this been substantiated at all.  A lineup of

Perk
Al Jeff
Durant
Pierce
Rondo

Gomes
Delonte

would have been interesting to see

It might have been interesting to see, but that team would not have won 45 games the last couple of seasons.