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Author Topic: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!  (Read 6010 times)

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We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« on: February 21, 2010, 07:06:37 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Ray Allen 43 minutes: how stupid is Doc? I understand PP is hurting. There was no real go-to shooter but Ray, I understand that. I also know that with a lineup of banged up vets like this, you have to pick your battles. Even when the Cs cut the lead down to one possession, it never felt to me like we had a chance tonight, well maybe just for a second. But Doc will ride this horse (Ray) into the ground, just like he did in that post-Christmas stretch when we had all those injuries. Why do you think Ray had no legs and was missing all those critical jumpers during that stretch.

C'mon Doc, 43 minutes? Thank God Nate will be here on Tuesday. Not being a rookie and because Danny got Nate so he will play significant minutes, perhaps this lunacy of burning our one truly healthy (and oldest) shooter will abate so that the damage to him it isn't irreversible.

Whenever this occurs, I think back to something Doc said when questioned about minutes earlier in the year. He said (paraphrasing, and I don't totally disagree with this) 40 minutes at SG (Ray) is different that 40 minutes from PP and different than 40 minutes from KG.But 43 minutes from your oldest player who has been asked to do this time and time again this year smacks of stupidity. Are you really that stupid, Doc, that you can't see the big picture here? And I completely disagree with the Doc apologists on this board who have said in the past that it's a coach's job to win the game.
I guess my question to them is "at what cost?'.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 07:25:54 PM »

Offline cdif911

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they should really be tanking, John Wall's gonna be a nice player...how dare they try to win  ::)
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 07:26:36 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Who are you going to play instead of Ray?  Scal?  Because that's the alternative off the bench - unless you'd rather burn out Pierce, who's already hurt.

Ray played a lot of minutes because he had to - Doc had no other choice.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 07:27:23 PM »

Offline PLamb

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Nate was so bad with the flu recently that he was in the hospital due to dehydration

Ray Allen is in unbelievable shape and been your best player for most of the year and he's only averaging 36 minutes a game

Once the second team hits a groove with Nate running it, Ray's minutes will be plummeting to 30-33 a game

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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 07:32:07 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Quote from: PLamb on February 21, 2010, 07:27:23 PM
Nate was so bad with the flu recently that he was in the hospital due to dehydration

Ray Allen is in unbelievable shape and been your best player for most of the year and he's only averaging 36 minutes a game

Once the second team hits a groove with Nate running it, Ray's minutes will be plummeting to 30-33 a game



Nailed it.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 07:36:15 PM »

Offline jr_3421

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Doc has no choice with this banged up team. And as much as we talk about Ray's age, next to Rondo he is in the best shape of anyone on the team.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 07:39:40 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Quote from: PLamb on February 21, 2010, 07:27:23 PM
Ray Allen is in unbelievable shape and been your best player for most of the year and he's only averaging 36 minutes a game



Ray is in unbelievable shape, but I don't think "only" 36 minutes per night is acceptable.  As I think you've pointed out before, guards generally decline fairly sharply as they age.  Since we're going with Ray for the rest of the season, I think he needs to have his minutes limited so that he's fresh for the playoffs.

Obviously, Ray has aged over the past three years, and yet he's playing more minutes now than he did in his prior two years in Boston.  I think Doc needs to do a better job keeping his playing time down.

I can't blame Doc too much when Nate is unavailable and Pierce is obviously injured, but Daniels played 18 minutes and Tony played 14.  If Doc had wanted to, he easily could have gotten Ray some rest.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 07:42:39 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Quote from: cdif911 on February 21, 2010, 07:25:54 PM
they should really be tanking, John Wall's gonna be a nice player...how dare they try to win  ::)


Glad to see another big picture guy here, just like Doc. Amazing how I predicted your's and I'm sure other Doc apologists'comments that will be similar. Of course coaches should try to win games. My point was the question :at what cost? Is burning Ray in this game just like he did in that terrible post-christmas stretch worth having a chance to win an individual game? I don't think so. And to characterize my post as that Doc should not try to win the game is shortsighted at best and a specious construct to feed your sarcasm at worst.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 07:44:19 PM »

Offline jr_3421

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Quote from: Roy Hobbs on February 21, 2010, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: PLamb on February 21, 2010, 07:27:23 PM
Ray Allen is in unbelievable shape and been your best player for most of the year and he's only averaging 36 minutes a game



Ray is in unbelievable shape, but I don't think "only" 36 minutes per night is acceptable.  As I think you've pointed out before, guards generally decline fairly sharply as they age.  Since we're going with Ray for the rest of the season, I think he needs to have his minutes limited so that he's fresh for the playoffs.

Obviously, Ray has aged over the past three years, and yet he's playing more minutes now than he did in his prior two years in Boston.  I think Doc needs to do a better job keeping his playing time down.

I can't blame Doc too much when Nate is unavailable and Pierce is obviously injured, but Daniels played 18 minutes and Tony played 14.  If Doc had wanted to, he easily could have gotten Ray some rest.

Doc COULD HAVE gotten Ray more rest but because he was the one keeping us in the game, Doc decided to go for the win. I can never blame a coach for that.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 07:46:40 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Quote from: jr_3421 on February 21, 2010, 07:44:19 PM
Quote from: Roy Hobbs on February 21, 2010, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: PLamb on February 21, 2010, 07:27:23 PM
Ray Allen is in unbelievable shape and been your best player for most of the year and he's only averaging 36 minutes a game



Ray is in unbelievable shape, but I don't think "only" 36 minutes per night is acceptable.  As I think you've pointed out before, guards generally decline fairly sharply as they age.  Since we're going with Ray for the rest of the season, I think he needs to have his minutes limited so that he's fresh for the playoffs.

Obviously, Ray has aged over the past three years, and yet he's playing more minutes now than he did in his prior two years in Boston.  I think Doc needs to do a better job keeping his playing time down.

I can't blame Doc too much when Nate is unavailable and Pierce is obviously injured, but Daniels played 18 minutes and Tony played 14.  If Doc had wanted to, he easily could have gotten Ray some rest.

Doc COULD HAVE gotten Ray more rest but because he was the one keeping us in the game, Doc decided to go for the win. I can never blame a coach for that.

I can blame a coach for that, when the player in question was injured going into the playoffs last year, and when Paul indicated that he and Ray they weren't getting enough rest in the past.  I think a coach needs to consider the big picture, as well as winning individual games.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 07:48:12 PM »

Offline connerhenry43

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i think there are times when criticizing doc about rotations and minutes to pierce or allen is justified, but today is not one of those days. allen was playing very well, pierce gave them nothing, and they were shorthanded without nate-dogg.

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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 07:50:29 PM »

Offline twinbree

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While I understand that we're short on guards Ray could have played slightly fewer minutes because Marquis under 20 minutes even with Pierce playing less than usual.

The thing is it's hard for me to give Doc a pass on Ray's minutes when he has a legitimate excuse because he plays him heavy minutes regularly, tells the media before games that he has to find him some rest then turns right back and does it again.
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 07:53:46 PM »

Offline jr_3421

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Isn't game time minutes the responsibility of the assistant coaches to some degree? In the moment it's hard to keep track of minutes while you're directing a team. Are these assistants just not speaking up?
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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 07:56:12 PM »

Offline Toine43

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I think right now the guys feel like they're starting to catch their second wind, and Doc wants to keep the momentum going. These games are very important, and Ray has carried this team on offense lately. It's vital to play like every possession of every game is meaningful (something the Cs weren't doing for a large part of the season), and Ray's minutes indicate that that's the team's mindset. Taking that into consideration, along with Pierce's injury, and Robinson being unavailable, I give Doc a pass today.

However, I would like to see Ray's minutes lowered once Nate's back and ready to play extended minutes. Hopefully Marquis continues to play like he did today because this was one of his best games of the year - aggressive on taking it to the rack, good effort guarding Melo, even made a couple jumpers. That would also make it easier to find Ray rest.

By the way, I think the story of today's game, besides Pierce struggling, was the way Rondo played. I don't care what his stats look like (he got another double double), he didn't bring it today and if he had played better I thought Boston could have hung around and possibly stole the game. He made life a lot harder for the team by making some poor decisions in transition, and seemed fatigued most of afternoon. He was god-awful on defense - it was embarrassing seeing the much older Chauncey Billups drive by him at will.

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Re: We coulda used Nate today! Dumb Doc is burning Ray. Stop it!
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 07:56:52 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Quote from: jr_3421 on February 21, 2010, 07:53:46 PM
Isn't game time minutes the responsibility of the assistant coaches to some degree? In the moment it's hard to keep track of minutes while you're directing a team. Are these assistants just not speaking up?

I don't know.  In the past, Doc has mentioned that he's the one responsible for playing time (i.e., in numerous times after injuries or heavy minutes when he says "I need to be better about keeping __________'s minutes down.)  Based upon how screwed up the rotations were when TT was coaching after Doc's recent ejection, I'd say the head coach is responsible for them in the Boston system.
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