Author Topic: Perkins  (Read 5640 times)

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Re: Perkins
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 11:43:59 AM »

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He could very well be the best "bang for your buck" center in the NBA.

He's never going to near a 20-10 but he's plays great defense and is a very competent rebounder.  Add to that a very high FG5 on a lot of "gimme" shots and you have a very solid center. 

If you're expecting a star, you're going to be disappointed.

He sure is a great value right now.  He took his current deal when he was still very young and very rough.  He wanted guaranteed money and years, and got it.  Cool.

His next contract?  THAT will be hard to figure.

Re: Perkins
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 11:48:57 AM »

Offline housecall

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Perk is servicable for this particular team..may not be for any other starting five but he fits(works)well with the Big4.

Re: Perkins
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 12:39:37 PM »

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).
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Re: Perkins
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 12:55:14 PM »

Offline Jon

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Perkins is one of the top 5 defensive centers in the league, and arguably in the top 3.  He's an incredible value and likely is worth twice what he makes now, especially given the inflated prices of most overpriced centers out there. 

Just because he doesn't have gaudy numbers, doesn't mean he's not extremely effective. 

Re: Perkins
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 01:10:17 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).

This is basically my stance on Perk. His trade value will never be higher than it is right now while he is under contract for 1.5 more years. His agent will be asking for big money when this current contract expires and I don't know if the team can afford to do that because it could undermine the rebuilding effort. Having said that, we'd have to get a heckuva player in return, and I just haven't seen too many deals where that is the case.

Re: Perkins
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 01:39:03 PM »

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).

This is basically my stance on Perk. His trade value will never be higher than it is right now while he is under contract for 1.5 more years. His agent will be asking for big money when this current contract expires and I don't know if the team can afford to do that because it could undermine the rebuilding effort. Having said that, we'd have to get a heckuva player in return, and I just haven't seen too many deals where that is the case.

Agreed.  TP.

We'd need quite an extensive makeover to be a running team, between Perk and KG's wooden leg.  Pierce is a bit past the running game stage of his career, too.  Ray can still run...since he only has to go from 3pt line to 3pt line.

It would be nice to have a big that could run with Rondo.  Maybe that's what Danny's looking for?

Re: Perkins
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 01:49:14 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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The Rondo/Perk fit just seems to not mesh, which is funny when you consider they are best friends off the court. But when Perk is in the game the center for the other team can lay off of Perk and swat away Rondo's drives. Also, Rondo is phenomenal at alleyoops and has no one to toss them up to anymore.

Re: Perkins
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 02:39:45 PM »

Offline RonnieG

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RonnieG,

Brazilian is new to our board and should be treated with more respect than "lol'd."  He has every right to voicing his opinion as everyone does, without having to deal with responses like your initial response.

BTW, welcome to the board Brazilian.  Don't let someone's flippant response keep you away.

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Now I seriously LOL'D.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 02:45:37 PM by RonnieG »

Re: Perkins
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 06:15:55 PM »

Offline Jon

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).

This is basically my stance on Perk. His trade value will never be higher than it is right now while he is under contract for 1.5 more years. His agent will be asking for big money when this current contract expires and I don't know if the team can afford to do that because it could undermine the rebuilding effort. Having said that, we'd have to get a heckuva player in return, and I just haven't seen too many deals where that is the case.

Agreed.  TP.

We'd need quite an extensive makeover to be a running team, between Perk and KG's wooden leg.  Pierce is a bit past the running game stage of his career, too.  Ray can still run...since he only has to go from 3pt line to 3pt line.

It would be nice to have a big that could run with Rondo.  Maybe that's what Danny's looking for?


But most of these so-called finishers are great shot blockers and dunkers, but aren't so good at team defense and keeping their man way from the basket. 

Perk has single-handedly taken Dwight Howard out of games.  How many other centers in the league can do that?  Probably zero. 

That type of defense is something to build around.  8 million is fair and I'd go to 10 million given how much even an average big man commands these days. 

Re: Perkins
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2010, 06:58:34 PM »

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).

This is basically my stance on Perk. His trade value will never be higher than it is right now while he is under contract for 1.5 more years. His agent will be asking for big money when this current contract expires and I don't know if the team can afford to do that because it could undermine the rebuilding effort. Having said that, we'd have to get a heckuva player in return, and I just haven't seen too many deals where that is the case.

Agreed.  TP.

We'd need quite an extensive makeover to be a running team, between Perk and KG's wooden leg.  Pierce is a bit past the running game stage of his career, too.  Ray can still run...since he only has to go from 3pt line to 3pt line.

It would be nice to have a big that could run with Rondo.  Maybe that's what Danny's looking for?


But most of these so-called finishers are great shot blockers and dunkers, but aren't so good at team defense and keeping their man way from the basket. 

Perk has single-handedly taken Dwight Howard out of games.  How many other centers in the league can do that?  Probably zero. 

That type of defense is something to build around.  8 million is fair and I'd go to 10 million given how much even an average big man commands these days. 

I get it.  I like Perk quite a lot.  He is among the better post defenders out there, as you wrote, without question. 

However...in a league that is perilously short on post scorers, post defense may not be the most valuable talent, even if it is among the rarest. 

Let me try a little Hubie Brown: 

Say you're the Boston Celtics, rebuilding a team, and the only player that you're committed to under contract is a top-5 point guard that is at his best in an uptempo game, and maybe a couple of recent draft picks.  What do you try to do first? 

Well, your allstar PG can't pass the ball to himself, so you look to line up some players that can score the basketball, maybe one elite scorer (probably a wing), and a couple of knock-down shooters to open up the game that can run and defend reasonably well at their positions.  If you're lucky, you've only committed $35-40 million with one max deal for your primary scorer, but still need a center and a bench. 

You probably stock the bench with prospects, draft picks, and vet minimum role-player guys, keeping bench costs for the 8-players minimum you need (for a 13-man roster)to around another $16-20 million, $25 if one of them is a veteran 6th man.  So now you're up to a $60 million payroll, over the cap by about $5 million, and your team is probably fighting for the 6-8th seed if everyone is healthy. 

Now you need to decide how much to pay your center, now in his prime, who won a ring early in his career and is on the US National team.  He's among the best defensive players at his position, but has a modest offensive game, and can't run on the break with the rest of your team.  Your payroll is at $60 million already.  Your owner is willing to pay for a contender, but is this the guy that makes your team a contender?  He slows down your offense, and there are only a few players in the league that you really need him to defend, one of which you may face in the playoffs, if your team gets that far.  Ther is no guarantee you face that team in the playoffs, either.

What do you do?

Keeping Perk at the $10 million he will garner on the open market in the summer of 2011 (assuming no radical changes in the CBA) ensures a mediocre team for the next decade, or at least requires some way to get more talent for very cheap money, meaning that one or more of your draft picks needs to work out very well.  Most likely, the team flounders in the middle of the pack for years.

Okay...now let's reconsider.  Package Perk with Ray's expiring contract, and all those fantasy-land pipe-dream trades that keep us contending this year and for the next 5-10 years just might be feasable.

Think about it.

Re: Perkins
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2010, 07:04:57 PM »

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Perk is definitely a great value, but I don't consider him a building block. If he's likely to command more than 8 mil on the market after his current deal expires, I'd happily trade him for someone whose skills are a better fit with Rondo (a fast-break oriented center who can finish on the run and catch quick passes).

This is basically my stance on Perk. His trade value will never be higher than it is right now while he is under contract for 1.5 more years. His agent will be asking for big money when this current contract expires and I don't know if the team can afford to do that because it could undermine the rebuilding effort. Having said that, we'd have to get a heckuva player in return, and I just haven't seen too many deals where that is the case.

Agreed.  TP.

We'd need quite an extensive makeover to be a running team, between Perk and KG's wooden leg.  Pierce is a bit past the running game stage of his career, too.  Ray can still run...since he only has to go from 3pt line to 3pt line.

It would be nice to have a big that could run with Rondo.  Maybe that's what Danny's looking for?


But most of these so-called finishers are great shot blockers and dunkers, but aren't so good at team defense and keeping their man way from the basket. 

Perk has single-handedly taken Dwight Howard out of games.  How many other centers in the league can do that?  Probably zero. 

That type of defense is something to build around.  8 million is fair and I'd go to 10 million given how much even an average big man commands these days. 

I wouldn't pay $10 mil for a good post defender, if it doesn't take a good post defender to stop him on the other side.  What makes Perk all that much better than Marcin Gortat, Marcus Camby or Anderson Varejao? Heck look at what Lamar Odom is being paid.

I don't want to make Perk a reverse Chris Kaman: a one-way big man who got overpaid because of his size and the assumption that he would develop into something better.

If he's up for Anderson Varejao money, then great.  If he's shooting for Kaman/Dalembert money, I say no way.

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Re: Perkins
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2010, 07:39:42 PM »

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I wouldn't pay $10 mil for a good post defender, if it doesn't take a good post defender to stop him on the other side.  What makes Perk all that much better than Marcin Gortat, Marcus Camby or Anderson Varejao? Heck look at what Lamar Odom is being paid.

I don't want to make Perk a reverse Chris Kaman: a one-way big man who got overpaid because of his size and the assumption that he would develop into something better.

If he's up for Anderson Varejao money, then great.  If he's shooting for Kaman/Dalembert money, I say no way.



I agree completely, and I think Perk knows this, too.  I can't help but wonder if that might be part of why he is mysteriously trying to be the 1st option on offense on so many possessions now?  Even if so, he needs to pass it out and repost more often, as he tries to force it too much.  Better chance of McHale passing out of the post than Perk...

Re: Perkins
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2010, 07:57:41 PM »

Offline Brazilian

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RonnieG,

Brazilian is new to our board and should be treated with more respect than "lol'd."  He has every right to voicing his opinion as everyone does, without having to deal with responses like your initial response.

BTW, welcome to the board Brazilian.  Don't let someone's flippant response keep you away.

Smitty77

Thank you! I am not angry about his " lol'd " ... I do not care about this =) I am here to make friends and talk about our C's. Thank you one more time.

I know that Perkins is not so bad... but i can not expect anything magical from our center... he is a player that not will win championships... so, he is normal and can be changed, in my opinion of course =)

Go go C's!

Re: Perkins
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2010, 08:32:46 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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RonnieG,

Brazilian is new to our board and should be treated with more respect than "lol'd."  He has every right to voicing his opinion as everyone does, without having to deal with responses like your initial response.

BTW, welcome to the board Brazilian.  Don't let someone's flippant response keep you away.

Smitty77

Thank you! I am not angry about his " lol'd " ... I do not care about this =) I am here to make friends and talk about our C's. Thank you one more time.

I know that Perkins is not so bad... but i can not expect anything magical from our center... he is a player that not will win championships... so, he is normal and can be changed, in my opinion of course =)

Go go C's!


But he was the starting C on a team that won a title.


And he has improved since then. 

Re: Perkins
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2010, 08:57:43 PM »

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RonnieG,

Brazilian is new to our board and should be treated with more respect than "lol'd."  He has every right to voicing his opinion as everyone does, without having to deal with responses like your initial response.

BTW, welcome to the board Brazilian.  Don't let someone's flippant response keep you away.

Smitty77

Thank you! I am not angry about his " lol'd " ... I do not care about this =) I am here to make friends and talk about our C's. Thank you one more time.

I know that Perkins is not so bad... but i can not expect anything magical from our center... he is a player that not will win championships... so, he is normal and can be changed, in my opinion of course =)

Go go C's!


But he was the starting C on a team that won a title.


And he has improved since then. 

But that was when Perk and Rondo combined to make about 6 mil per.  If they are combining to make 20 mil per, it becomes a lot harder to construct a championship team around them. 

Perk is not the kind of player who can grow into an increased role like Rondo has.  He's a reluctant and unskilled passer with a very loose handle on the ball, which makes him extremely ineffective against any kind of double team on the post.  Nor can he develop much more as a garbage man: he's already lost about as much weight and gained as much quickness as he can.  He's never going to be much of a threat off the pick and roll or in transition.  Nor is he that versatile defensively (a la Ben Wallace).  He can pretty much only guard 5s.
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