#17 or Durant?

[dlpin]

And blame Red for hanging on to his big three and hoping for a miracle, but the reality is that without them there was no hope of a miracle.

That's the thing that's lost in Danny's "Red held onto his stars too long" theory.  What else was out there?  Could this team have been a championship contender by moving Larry and/or McHale?  I don't think it could have been.  All that trading the Big Three would have done was extended our window of mediocrity, while shipping two lifelong Celtics and fan favorites out of town.

Exactly. Especially since the alleged offers discussed involved Bird to the Pacers and McHale to the Mavs.

Who did either franchise have, and who did either franchise draft the following years, that would have made us good enough to beat Jordan or Hakeem?

Here's the 88-89 Pacers team:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/1989.html
Here's the 1989 draft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NBA_Draft

Here's the 88-89 Mavs team:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/1989.html

Would ANYONE on either team make the celtics good enough to beat Jordan?

[Andy Jick]

Roy...Durant...Horford...  How many titles do those guys have?

I can't believe anyone could say with a straight face that they'd give up a championship for more years of rebuilding, with no guarantee at the end of the proverbial rainbow.

i think some people here just post these things to be divisive, not because they honestly believe what they type...

[Tai]

I wouldn't have drafted Durant with #2.  I would have taken Al Horford. I love blue collar players like Horford.

In 2006 I would have taken Brandon Roy, obviously.  Hard to say where the Celtics would have picked in 2008, maybe around 20, so let's speculate on Courtney Lee. Or, I might have tried to trade down to get George Hill plus another player. I might get Hibbert, but I already have enough beef.  I want another shooter.

So I've got Roy, Horford and Lee.  Plus I've still got Pierce, Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Leon Powe.  Maybe I can still get BBD too, in the second round.

That would certainly be a playoff team now, and would be a team on the rise.

Starters are Rondo, Roy, Pierce, Jefferson and Horford.
Bench is West, Lee, TA, Gomes (or BBD or Powe) and Perkins.

I gotta say, that bench looks solid, but I don't know about our starting frontcourt. I fear it'd be outright overwhelmed on the defensive side.

Yeah, seems like a fun team to watch, but the point of discussion is whether they'd win a title. I dunno, man.

[Roy Hobbs]

I wouldn't have drafted Durant with #2.  I would have taken Al Horford. I love blue collar players like Horford.

In 2006 I would have taken Brandon Roy, obviously.  Hard to say where the Celtics would have picked in 2008, maybe around 20, so let's speculate on Courtney Lee. Or, I might have tried to trade down to get George Hill plus another player. I might get Hibbert, but I already have enough beef.  I want another shooter.

So I've got Roy, Horford and Lee.  Plus I've still got Pierce, Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Leon Powe.  Maybe I can still get BBD too, in the second round.

That would certainly be a playoff team now, and would be a team on the rise.

Starters are Rondo, Roy, Pierce, Jefferson and Horford.
Bench is West, Lee, TA, Gomes (or BBD or Powe) and Perkins.

Of course, we had to break up that core, because Wyc wouldn't have gone into the luxury tax to pay for a non-playoff team.  Raef's and Wally's contract would have hampered our ability to extend our young guys.

[Brickowski]

I wouldn't have drafted Durant with #2.  I would have taken Al Horford. I love blue collar players like Horford.

In 2006 I would have taken Brandon Roy, obviously.  Hard to say where the Celtics would have picked in 2008, maybe around 20, so let's speculate on Courtney Lee. Or, I might have tried to trade down to get George Hill plus another player. I might get Hibbert, but I already have enough beef.  I want another shooter.

So I've got Roy, Horford and Lee.  Plus I've still got Pierce, Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Leon Powe.  Maybe I can still get BBD too, in the second round.

That would certainly be a playoff team now, and would be a team on the rise.

Starters are Rondo, Roy, Pierce, Jefferson and Horford.
Bench is West, Lee, TA, Gomes (or BBD or Powe) and Perkins.

Of course, we had to break up that core, because Wyc wouldn't have gone into the luxury tax to pay for a non-playoff team.  Raef's and Wally's contract would have hampered our ability to extend our young guys.

Just let them expire.  You might have one year of tax, but then you would be in very good shape. Garnett and Allen have been making nearly 40 million between them since 2007. You could spend 35 million of that money on extensions (or free agents) and still be under the luxury tax threshhold. Extensions for Jefferson (10M), Rondo (8M), West (4M) and Gomes (4M) would cost only 26M in total, based on the second contracts that these players actually received.

[Fafnir]

I wouldn't have drafted Durant with #2.  I would have taken Al Horford. I love blue collar players like Horford.

In 2006 I would have taken Brandon Roy, obviously.  Hard to say where the Celtics would have picked in 2008, maybe around 20, so let's speculate on Courtney Lee. Or, I might have tried to trade down to get George Hill plus another player. I might get Hibbert, but I already have enough beef.  I want another shooter.

So I've got Roy, Horford and Lee.  Plus I've still got Pierce, Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Leon Powe.  Maybe I can still get BBD too, in the second round.

That would certainly be a playoff team now, and would be a team on the rise.

Starters are Rondo, Roy, Pierce, Jefferson and Horford.
Bench is West, Lee, TA, Gomes (or BBD or Powe) and Perkins.

Of course, we had to break up that core, because Wyc wouldn't have gone into the luxury tax to pay for a non-playoff team.  Raef's and Wally's contract would have hampered our ability to extend our young guys.

Just let them expire.  You might have one year of tax, but then you would be in very good shape. Garnett and Allen have been making nearly 40 million between them since 2007. You could spend 35 million of that money on extensions (or free agents) and still be under the luxury tax threshhold. Extensions for Jefferson (10M), Rondo (8M), West (4M) and Gomes (4M) would cost only 26M in total, based on the second contracts that these players actually received.

You're off on the salaries of Rondo(9) and Jefferson(12).

I also don't think that ownership would be willing to swallow losing 20+ million for a team that was first round exit. Even if it was just for one year.

[Celtics Insider]

Here's a question posed in Bill Simmons' recent mailbag:

Q: If you could go back in time "Lost"-style and fix the 2007 lottery so the Celtics landed the second pick, would you keep what happened (No. 5 pick, KG trade, 2008 title, everything else that happened up to now), or would you switch it so that they ended up with the No. 2 pick and Durant?

Simmons and his father both say you need to take Durant.  I'm not as sure; I think I prefer the guarantee of one title (and three years, at least, of contending basketball) over 10 years of a superstar with no guarantee of winning.  However, it's an interesting question, and I can see both sides.

Durant. I think we would have been better off with Pierce, Allen, Rondo Jefferson, and Durant.

[moiso]

I really wanted Oden but Durant is going to go down as one of the alltime great scorers.  While it would have been great to have Durant, I would probably take the title.  Plus, depending on how Ainge reshuffles the deck, we may not be done competing for more titles.

[Celtics Insider]

I really wanted Oden but Durant is going to go down as one of the alltime great scorers.  While it would have been great to have Durant, I would probably take the title.  Plus, depending on how Ainge reshuffles the deck, we may not be done competing for more titles.

But, I think we STILL would have won the title, and we would be WAY better off in the long run with Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Durant, and Jefferson.

[Fafnir]

I really wanted Oden but Durant is going to go down as one of the alltime great scorers.  While it would have been great to have Durant, I would probably take the title.  Plus, depending on how Ainge reshuffles the deck, we may not be done competing for more titles.

But, I think we STILL would have won the title, and we would be WAY better off in the long run with Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Durant, and Jefferson.

We wouldn't have won the title in 2007-2008.

Definitely would have better in the long run though, but Pierce would have almost certainly been traded.

[moiso]

I really wanted Oden but Durant is going to go down as one of the alltime great scorers.  While it would have been great to have Durant, I would probably take the title.  Plus, depending on how Ainge reshuffles the deck, we may not be done competing for more titles.

But, I think we STILL would have won the title, and we would be WAY better off in the long run with Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Durant, and Jefferson.

I don't know.  That is a lot of offense and not much defense.  That is a ton of talent but I'm thinking the Celtics may never have comitted to defense without KG's influence.  Pierce and Ray were never really sold on d until they played with Garnett.  We would be hard to stop though.

[Birdbrain]

I really wanted Oden but Durant is going to go down as one of the alltime great scorers.  While it would have been great to have Durant, I would probably take the title.  Plus, depending on how Ainge reshuffles the deck, we may not be done competing for more titles.

But, I think we STILL would have won the title, and we would be WAY better off in the long run with Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Durant, and Jefferson.

Allen was garnered with the 5th pick.  Durant was supposedly who you would have picked correct?

[Fafnir]

I think he meant Tony Allen.

[drza44]

I'm...a bit stunned that this idea has gotten so much support, to be honest.  The last two seasons were a "field goal"?  Really?

Celtics record last 2 seasons: 128 - 36, with a championship.

Teams in 2000s to win at least 128 games in back-to-back seasons with at least one title: One, the 07-09 Celtics.  The early 2000s Lakers are the only other team this decade that can claim a better 2-year run.

Teams in Celtics history to win at least 128 games in back-to-back seasons with at least one title: Two, the 1984 - 86 squad and the 07 - 09 squad.

Yes, Boston has a rich history of success and success is ultimately measured in rings.  But the Celtics just completed one of their two most successful two-year runs since Bill Russell walked through those doors, and the other such 2-year run is considered to be one of the best teams in NBA history.

And oh, by the way, the current team in year 3 is still right there with a very legit chance to grab # 18 this season.

Yes, Durant is a fun player to watch and has nice potential.  But seriously?  You trade in one of the most dominant 2-year periods in history with very legit contention for more title(s) (after 22 years of futility, by the way) with all of the attending storybook storylines for the chance that maybe Durant/Jefferson/Rondo/Perk/whatever-you-get-from-Pierce-trade MIGHT mesh into an eventual contending team down the road?  I can't even BEGIN to sympathize with or relate to that position.

[wdleehi]

You take the title and smile.