I'd Rather trade Pierce than Allen

[Pucaccia]

When Rondo was talking about the different agendas on the team, I believe he was talking about Pierce.  When Pierce is out of the line up, the offense runs so much smoother. Everyone is involved.  When Pierce is in the game and demands the ball, the offense is choppy and slow.  It runs well when Rondo runs everything but what happens is in crunch time the Celts divert to Pierce and his half court crap. What is most frustrating is when the C's let Pierce hold the ball for the last shot and he either makes a bad play, bounces the ball off his foot or gets the ball stolen. He converts about 1 in a 100.
Ray Allen is not to blame.  There are no sets for him.  He gets crappy set ups.  He doesn't get enough touches to get in the flow.  When he does get touches, it is in the last seconds.
Ray will have a great first half, and then in the second half you will not even hear from him.  This is because the offense suddenly runs through Pierce. This makes for no motion and no touches for Allen.  Pierce is a warrior and I like him, but...
When Rondo runs it, and not Pierce, everything works better.
Anyone that you trade Allen for will have the same problem.  The best shooting guards will be limited because Pierce's suddenly taking over the second half.
The solution is Pierce.  Obviously you won't trade him.  He needs to be a role player on offense and not the initiator all the time especially in the second half.
Anyone you want to bring in for Ray would NOT do as well unless the philosophy changes.

[GranTur]

Yeah...sure...it's a great idea to trade...
-the franchise player
-leading scorer and solid defender
-48% FG and 47% 3-pt FG.
-the efficient, court-leader who this team was built around.
-our only SF--one of the best SF in the NBA.

Okay sarcasm aside. Pierce, even though he's been dealing with knee bangings, infections, and foot problems, has been playing at a very high, efficient level for this team. Him and Rondo make this team go.

I don't know if you've watched the Celtics for a long time, but when Pierce is healthy he's one of the best fourth quarter scorers in the NBA over the past decade. See the 2008 playoffs.

Because he's been hurt lately, we should start using Rondo to make plays in the fourth. Rondo has been maturing in front of our eyes and is growing into the next level of play-making.

Oh and a side note: I don't think they should trade Ray Allen either.

[wdleehi]

It is hard to guess who was being talked about.



Pierce is the better player then Ray right now.


Better defender.  Shooting better. 



less attractive contract. 

[BballTim]

  The problem with Ray is partly his shooting woes but it's also his problems in the defensive end.

[Cman]

I don't think the Cs will ever trade PP, nor do I want them to.  One thing that is important to the Celtics franchise is its history, and PP is a franchise player who will be well remembered and well regarded for decades.  That stuff is worth gold (or at least cold hard cash) to the management and it is too much of a risk to send him packing for a player whose value would likely be less than the value PP brings to this franchise.

[fairweatherfan]

I don't think the Cs will ever trade PP, nor do I want them to.  One thing that is important to the Celtics franchise is its history, and PP is a franchise player who will be well remembered and well regarded for decades.  That stuff is worth gold (or at least cold hard cash) to the management and it is too much of a risk to send him packing for a player whose value would likely be less than the value PP brings to this franchise.

I agree - with all Danny's talk about no one being untouchable and sentimental attachment to vets having no place in today's game, Pierce is the current Mr. Celtic and deserves to stay that way until he retires.  He's been through a ton with the team, and pragmatically, you'll see a mini-revolt among fans unless we get a really promising young stud for him, which probably won't happen.  God help the psyche of the guy he gets traded for too, the fans will take it out on him if he stumbles at all.

[Marcus13]

I agree, Ray always tends to step his game up when Pierce is out of the lineup, and I think we will get closer to equal value in return for Pierce. 

[PierceMVP08]

Blog rules would not allow me to say what I really think about this.... So I will just sigh at the thought and roll my eyes 

[Pucaccia]

I don't know if you've watched the Celtics for a long time, but when Pierce is healthy he's one of the best fourth quarter scorers in the NBA over the past decade. See the 2008 playoffs.

Yeah your right, I probably haven't been watching the Celts for as long as you.  I only starting watching since 1969. On a fuzzy black and white TV. I hate to admit it but Yes,I am that old!  The Celts are better playing as a team, not when Pierce is taking over the 4th quarter.  Sometimes Pierce does well in the fourth, most times it just takes everyone else out of the flow.  The best C's teams always played as a team, Hondo, Russell, Cousy, Jo Jo, Cowens, Bird.  They dominated but never hogged the ball in the fourth.

BTW.  I blame Doc more than Pierce.  He should see it.

[JSD]

I don't know if you've watched the Celtics for a long time, but when Pierce is healthy he's one of the best fourth quarter scorers in the NBA over the past decade. See the 2008 playoffs.

Yeah your right, I probably haven't been watching the Celts for as long as you.  I only starting watching since 1969. On a fuzzy black and white TV. I hate to admit it but Yes,I am that old!  The Celts are better playing as a team, not when Pierce is taking over the 4th quarter.  Sometimes Pierce does well in the fourth, most times it just takes everyone else out of the flow.  The best C's teams always played as a team, Hondo, Russell, Cousy, Jo Jo, Cowens, Bird.  They dominated but never hogged the ball in the fourth.

BTW.  I blame Doc more than Pierce.  He should see it.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the iso basketball being played down the stretch of a lot of these games. I think the result of which has caused some of these 4th quarter meltdowns. I don't however want Pierce going anywhere. Perhaps a 4th quarter philosophy change with our current roster would be sufficient?

[Andy Jick]

we can mock the OP for sharing this...but he's entitled to his opinion.

my thoughts, strangely enough, hearkened back to 1989 when Larry was injured (Achilles) for most of the year and word leaked (Jim Paxson?) that "the team was better without Larry..."

sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

i think pierce is a bit beat up this year...let's cut him some slack.  but to trade him is ludicrous...he will retire a celtic, and rightfully so.

[jdpapa3]

We played the Heat last night. Anyone's offense looks smoother when they are playing the Heat. With Pierce we possibly blow them out.

[BballTim]

we can mock the OP for sharing this...but he's entitled to his opinion.

my thoughts, strangely enough, hearkened back to 1989 when Larry was injured (Achilles) for most of the year and word leaked (Jim Paxson?) that "the team was better without Larry..."

sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it?

  In general that was stupid. The team may have gone through a stint where Bird was so injured that the team played better without him but that generally wasn't the case.

[jpd985]

I don't think it should be ruled out. If a trade comes along that makes the team better we should do it whether it involves Pierce or Ray. I just don't see a possible scenario where that can or will happen with Pierce involved. Ray has a much easier contract to move and has not been as effective as Pierce (when healthy).

[Who]

(1) I think Ray Allen's expiring contract is a better trade asset than Paul Pierce's superior talent + 2011 ending contract.
(2) Like most fans here, I think Pierce is the better player of the two

Both of those reasons are why I think it's a lot easier for the Celtics to upgrade their roster through trading Ray Allen rather than Paul Pierce.