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Retirement question
« on: January 29, 2010, 10:18:03 AM »

Offline PLamb

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Hypothetically let's say that Kevin Garnett's knee is permanently damaged and that being the type of guy he is if he is going to be a hindrance to the club he would rather retire than to hang on just to get paid

If he were to retire after this season, does his salary come off the books
Pick 2 Knicks

PG: George Hill, Ty Lawson
SG: Ray Allen, Anthony Parker, Quentin Richardson
SF: Grant Hill, Matt Barnes, D
PF: Zach Randolph, Kenyon Martin, Jon Brockman, Dante Cunningham
C:  Nene Hilario,   Own rights: Nikola Pekovic IR: Kyle Weaver

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 10:18:36 AM »

Offline Drucci

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The negativity and the panic all over the Celtics Nation is getting ridiculous... ::)

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 10:18:41 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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This is a depressing question.    :'(

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 10:26:37 AM »

Offline PLamb

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I'm not trying to be negative I'm just asking a question

I'm wondering if we have seen the best of KG and god forbid he is seriously injured and decides to hang them up, would the Celtics be afforded the ability to take his humungous salary off the books to move on

Just wondering
Pick 2 Knicks

PG: George Hill, Ty Lawson
SG: Ray Allen, Anthony Parker, Quentin Richardson
SF: Grant Hill, Matt Barnes, D
PF: Zach Randolph, Kenyon Martin, Jon Brockman, Dante Cunningham
C:  Nene Hilario,   Own rights: Nikola Pekovic IR: Kyle Weaver

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 10:32:52 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Well it't time to be negative. We had a lot of hope going into this season and the team is falling short. Sure their record is decent, but they are not playing like a team that can win a championship right now. Injuries are a factor of course, but from what I've seen, this team is lacking effort. Instead of crushing the Magic last night, they became sloppy and wasted some possesions after they jumped to the 16 point lead. They deserved to lose last night. >:(
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 02:00:12 PM »

Online slamtheking

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I'm not trying to be negative I'm just asking a question

I'm wondering if we have seen the best of KG and god forbid he is seriously injured and decides to hang them up, would the Celtics be afforded the ability to take his humungous salary off the books to move on

Just wondering
Nothing negative about your question---it's a really good one.  I wish I had the answer.  Maybe Roy Hobbs, the guru of all things related to salary cap, will peer into this thread and enlighten us.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 02:03:58 PM »

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 02:08:30 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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lol.  This is my fault for joking that we could take on Iggy and Brand's salary since KG would retire at the end of the year.  I was insinuating that his money would come off the books.

Honestly I don't know how it would actually work, but it's a legit question.  The guy is old and more could be going on than they are letting on.  Maybe its time for him to walk away. 

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 02:11:36 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

Who i think that's more about the Darius Miles situation where the guy wanted to keep playing, but his team wanted his money to go away.   

I'm talking about a legit "hang em up" retirement where the player willingly says he's had enough.  Kinda like a lot of people expect Sheed to do before his contract is up.

Seems to me if a player willingly decides to retire, you don't keep paying him 20 million dollars a year... right?

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 02:12:21 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

That's true.  However, if a player simply walks away from the game, there's a good argument that a team's financial obligation to him would end, at least until such point as he unretires.  Therefore, since no money is paid, perhaps it wouldn't apply against the cap.

I haven't researched the issue, though, and I don't know how it works in actuality.

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Re: Retirement question
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 02:19:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

That's true.  However, if a player simply walks away from the game, there's a good argument that a team's financial obligation to him would end, at least until such point as he unretires.  Therefore, since no money is paid, perhaps it wouldn't apply against the cap.

I haven't researched the issue, though, and I don't know how it works in actuality.

  If he retired due to injury we'd probably be screwed next year, but wouldn't he then turn into a $20M or so expiring contract where the insurance company actually pays the contract? Because that would be one valuabe trade chip.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 02:33:01 PM »

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

That's true.  However, if a player simply walks away from the game, there's a good argument that a team's financial obligation to him would end, at least until such point as he unretires.  Therefore, since no money is paid, perhaps it wouldn't apply against the cap.

I haven't researched the issue, though, and I don't know how it works in actuality.
I was reading Larry Coon's CBA ... and it seems as though any money paid to a retiree counts against the cap.

So, (1) if a retired player agreed to void his contract, the team would get full cap flexibility (2) If the retired player agreed to a buyout, only that figure would count (3)  If the retired player was paid his salary in full, the full salary counts.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 02:34:26 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Here's my take, piecing together what i've seen in the NBA:

-If a player is insured, gets injured and can't play, the insurance company will pay a large portion of that salary as long as a player is out. This, I believe, is why Raef's deal when he was on portland was rumored to be so valuable: He was in the last year of his deal and isurance was covering 80% of it.

-If a player just doesn't want to play any more, i think he voids his contract. I think, then, there are specific rules about when/if he can come back to the game, so a player couldn't just "retire" and sign elsewhere. Oh, here it is:

Quote
54. What are the rules for retired players?

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player could still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list, forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, but can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team's team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.


So if a player just said "i have enough money, i can't take the travel and physical/mental stress anymore, i'm done" he could retire, get no more additional money, and the only part that would count against the cap is what he already got.

If KG blew out a knee tomorrow and just decided it wouldn't allow him to play again, and doctors agreeed, (knocking heavily on wood), then in exactly one year, his remaining salary would get wiped from the books (so only about half of his stated salary would count against the cap). However, KG would still get his full salary in real money, most likely from an insurance company. If this happened to somebody like Q richardson or Eddy Curry, the same thing would happen, but the TEAM would still have to pay real money (while getting salary cap relief) since i think those were two players no one would insure.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 02:35:15 PM »

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Edit: Nevermind ... Fan from VT just posted the quoted section.

Re: Retirement question
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 02:36:04 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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My understanding of it is that all salary paid to a retired player is included on the team's salary cap except in one case and then when the player is forced to retire due to injury. If that happens, the team must wait a year, then petition the league and then they can get salary relief.

Edit: A league appointed physician has to verify that the player is unfit to continue playing ... before the league will grant cap relief.

That's true.  However, if a player simply walks away from the game, there's a good argument that a team's financial obligation to him would end, at least until such point as he unretires.  Therefore, since no money is paid, perhaps it wouldn't apply against the cap.

I haven't researched the issue, though, and I don't know how it works in actuality.



I already made a post, but I also think that, in actuality, any player would hobble through a year in which they didn't want to play for a multimillion dollar check. I doubt anyone's walked away in the middle of a significant deal when there wasn't an acute injury.