Doc concerned with opposing PG's production

[Chris]

Basically, I think defense at the PG position is a tossup.  There just are not many great defenders at the position. 

However, not many players have the physical gifts that Rondo has.  He is not Steve Nash.  He could be a dominant defender, and there is absolutely no excuse for him trailing after plays an getting caught on every pick like he does.  Comparing to others is a paper argument IMO, because most of the others are being paid because of their offense...while Rondo is a nice offensive player, if he wants to be an elite PG (and lead this team to a championship), it is going to be because of his defense.

[Fafnir]

I don't think he has the skillset to be a dominant defender, he's not big enough.

[Who]

Basically, I think defense at the PG position is a tossup.  There just are not many great defenders at the position. 

Russell Westbrook is the only player I rate as an elite or excellent defensive player at the position. I don't think any other point guard in the league comes close to his impact on a game defensively.

I'd rate Rondo, and the others I mentioned, a notch below that. I think they're all very good defensive PGs.

[BballTim]

Russell Westbrook is the only starting point guard that I think plays better defense than Rondo.

Raymond Felton is a close call though.

Deron Williams is a better defender IMO.  Chris Paul is pretty even with Rondo.  They both get burned a lot, but get a ton of steals.  Chris Duhon is a better defender.  Tony Parker is comparable.  Tyreke Evans is close, as is Rodney Stuckey.  Derek Rose is also solid.

  Yet most of those players have a higher opposing fg%, allow more assist and force fewer turnovers than Rondo. I think you're kidding yourself if you think you can watch any of those guys as closely as you watch Rondo and not find as many (if not more) faults in their games as you do in Rondo's.

[BballTim]

Basically, I think defense at the PG position is a tossup.  There just are not many great defenders at the position. 

However, not many players have the physical gifts that Rondo has.  He is not Steve Nash.  He could be a dominant defender, and there is absolutely no excuse for him trailing after plays an getting caught on every pick like he does.  Comparing to others is a paper argument IMO, because most of the others are being paid because of their offense...while Rondo is a nice offensive player, if he wants to be an elite PG (and lead this team to a championship), it is going to be because of his defense.

  During the time that Paul and/or KG were out Rondo averaged 18/10/5 and shot about 53% from the field. How many of those pgs that are paid for their offense put up significantly better numbers than those?

[Kiorrik]

I don't think he has the skillset to be a dominant defender, he's not big enough.

Truth. Actually, that's Rondo's D in a nutshell. If he were twice as heavy, he wouldn't be as quick, but a lot better at fighting through all the moving picks that are being set.

You need to take into account that 75% of all the screens set by bigs are (mostly uncalled) moving picks. You can't position yourself against a moving pick. He tries, and more than once a night you'll see Rondo in this kind of a position:


.edit: http://www.ditdoetdirk.nl/crap/rondo.gif for the full size :p

[Nails]

I bet if the RR wasn't playing 40 minutes a night he could play a little harder D. God knows he is willing to play D.

[crownsy]

I bet if the RR wasn't playing 40 minutes a night he could play a little harder D. God knows he is willing to play D.

as long as it doesn't involve keeping his man in front of him, which is a huge weakness of his that he readily acknowledges. Rajon is a gambler, and the problem is that alot of times when he goes for a steal his man beats him and puts pressure on the guys in the paint.

I'm concerned with it as well, but expect it to get better rapidly if KG continues to play well.

[BballTim]

  While Rondo seemed a little more committed to the defensive end against the Clippers it seemed like Davis had a hard time getting past Rondo without a pick (although he is capable of postin up Rondo). KG coming back should help everyone's defense but it's also true that Rondo's defense slipped at a time when he was doing much more on the offensive end (he basically doubled his scoring average during that time). That's not uncommon in the nba.

[liam]

I don't think he has the skillset to be a dominant defender, he's not big enough.

Truth. Actually, that's Rondo's D in a nutshell. If he were twice as heavy, he wouldn't be as quick, but a lot better at fighting through all the moving picks that are being set.

You need to take into account that 75% of all the screens set by bigs are (mostly uncalled) moving picks. You can't position yourself against a moving pick. He tries, and more than once a night you'll see Rondo in this kind of a position:


.edit: http://www.ditdoetdirk.nl/crap/rondo.gif for the full size :p

TP for one of my biggest pet peeves in the NBA. The only ones who ever get called for it are Baby and Perk and sometimes KG. Every other team in the NBA gets away with it as part of there offense. With the no hand check and the moving screen Hondo or Bird would've averaged 50 points a game. There is no way to guard a guard in today's NBA. You also can't touch a big inside the "circle". Curse you David Stern!

[scoop]

I always thought NBA refs are too strict calling illegal screens. Sometimes there's barely any contact between the screener and the screened.

Defenders are supposed to get caught on picks, that's why their usage is so widely popular. Although Rondo doesn't have the textbook technique of guys that fight through picks really well - Kobe comes to mind - his speed allows him to recover very quickly. That's the most important thing for a guard defending the ballscreen with the big hedging on: minimize the time his teammate is left out to dry. Besides Westbrook (terrific combination of athletic abilities+fundamentals+mindset), Felton and perhaps guys like George Hill or Rodney Stuckey, I don't think there are much better defenders at the point of attack than Rondo.

[crownsy]

I don't think he has the skillset to be a dominant defender, he's not big enough.

Truth. Actually, that's Rondo's D in a nutshell. If he were twice as heavy, he wouldn't be as quick, but a lot better at fighting through all the moving picks that are being set.

You need to take into account that 75% of all the screens set by bigs are (mostly uncalled) moving picks. You can't position yourself against a moving pick. He tries, and more than once a night you'll see Rondo in this kind of a position:


.edit: http://www.ditdoetdirk.nl/crap/rondo.gif for the full size :p

TP for one of my biggest pet peeves in the NBA. The only ones who ever get called for it are Baby and Perk and sometimes KG. Every other team in the NBA gets away with it as part of there offense. With the no hand check and the moving screen Hondo or Bird would've averaged 50 points a game. There is no way to guard a guard in today's NBA. You also can't touch a big inside the "circle". Curse you David Stern!

true, but to be fair KG and sheed get away with murder on moving picks more often than not.

IT seems like the likelihood of you getting called on a moving pick is directly proportional to your star power (thus perk and baby's high rate of whistles.)

[moiso]

I don't think he has the skillset to be a dominant defender, he's not big enough.

I disagree with this.  What do you want him to do, block shots?  Rondo is not a puny TJ Ford type.  He has some muscle. He has bascially the same body type as the best defensive point guard of the last 15 years- Gary Payton.  He's shorter but has longer arms.  And Rondo actually has more muscle than Payton did in his early years, plus wider shoulders.