What will Tebow be the NFL equivalent of?

[PosImpos]

Look...Tim Tebow has helped win 6 of the Broncos' last 7 games. That's 20% of the NFL. Until he starts to lose at a similar pace, I think its pretty fair to agree its time to stop the 'When the NFL figures him out' schtick. Just doesn't pass the smell test anymore (and let's not forget, I was touting that line for weeks at the beginning of the year).

Eh, Derek Anderson, Rex Grossman, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Vince Young and many others have put together similar stretches. Smell test in the NFL is longer term than 7 games (especially when many of those games are against bad teams). He's realy remindng me of Vince Young right now.

He did play very well yesterday overall, particularly in the second half.

yeah, call me when tebow beats a good team with a good defense.

You still living on Negative Nancy Lane in Denial, MA?

sure.

tebow is exciting, and the fact that his teams keep winning close match after close match is exhilarating.  it's clear that he's inspired that team, and from all his interviews it's obvious that he's a great person, very humble, focused on team success above all else.  that's really commendable.  i have no doubt at this point that tebow has the skills to be a useful player at some position in the NFL for a long while to come.  i'm just not yet convinced that position is QB, despite his team's recent run of success.

heck, if people are not convinced by the patriots' run of dominance over lesser teams (and understandably so), why should i be impressed by tebow's run of close wins over a group of teams that aren't much better?

im just of the opinion that if a QB like Tebow were going to succeed over the course of a full career in the modern NFL the way that Tebow has succeeded up to this point, it would have happened by now.  

tebow is a great story, but i have a similar reserve of skepticism for him as i had for the buffalo bills and detroit lions earlier this season.  most of the time that things run totally contrary to your expectations, it is unsustainable.

[nickagneta]

Tim Tebow is one heck of a good football player with great leadership abilities. He is not a a very good NFL QB. When the coach has to scrap half his playbook and draw up a ton of option and gimmick plays to get his team to be a winning team, that is not a formula for long term success in the NFL. Never has been, never will be.

[GreenFaith1819]

Tim Tebow is one heck of a good football player with great leadership abilities. He is not a a very good NFL QB. When the coach has to scrap half his playbook and draw up a ton of option and gimmick plays to get his team to be a winning team, that is not a formula for long term success in the NFL. Never has been, never will be.

But Nick...sometimes you HAVE to throw conventional wisdom to the winds.

Look at our own 2009-10 Boston Celtics...were they supposed to destroy Lebron and Dwight, on the road....on the way to nearly beating LA (if Perk hadn't went down)? - again..on the road?

Sometimes, you just have to roll with it.

Denver is an example of that, to me.

[Cman]

Has any other QB ever lifted a team up from bad to a winning situation like this, and got more begrudging credit (if you can even call it that) than Tebow?

I mean Ryan Fitz won a couple games and he was suddenly a long term solution. Now they're 5-7. I don't hear "Fitz can't play".  They just signed him to a 6 year contract. Where were the critics to say that was absurd?

Tebow has done the opposite and is given very little credit by many.

It's just the double standards I'm not cool with.  

I don't know about that -- I see the media doing a complete about-face on Tebow. Seems they can't get enough of him.

And, yes, the contract for Ryan Fitz is absurd.

[nickagneta]

Tim Tebow is one heck of a good football player with great leadership abilities. He is not a a very good NFL QB. When the coach has to scrap half his playbook and draw up a ton of option and gimmick plays to get his team to be a winning team, that is not a formula for long term success in the NFL. Never has been, never will be.

But Nick...sometimes you HAVE to throw conventional wisdom to the winds.

Look at our own 2009-10 Boston Celtics...were they supposed to destroy Lebron and Dwight, on the road....on the way to nearly beating LA (if Perk hadn't went down)? - again..on the road?

Sometimes, you just have to roll with it.

Denver is an example of that, to me.

Not sure I understand the comparison. The 2010 Celtics didn't do anything unconventional, they were a team of superstars that were underachieving through the season and turned it on in the playoffs.

If your message is simply to believe in Tebow, well, others can do that. I'm not really a Tebow fan and he has always kind of gotten under my skin with the whole religious thing. I don't want him to fail but neither am I that invested in wanting him to win.

I just think he is a below average quarterback getting way to much credit for the turnaround of the Denver Broncos.

[GreenFaith1819]

Tim Tebow is one heck of a good football player with great leadership abilities. He is not a a very good NFL QB. When the coach has to scrap half his playbook and draw up a ton of option and gimmick plays to get his team to be a winning team, that is not a formula for long term success in the NFL. Never has been, never will be.

But Nick...sometimes you HAVE to throw conventional wisdom to the winds.

Look at our own 2009-10 Boston Celtics...were they supposed to destroy Lebron and Dwight, on the road....on the way to nearly beating LA (if Perk hadn't went down)? - again..on the road?

Sometimes, you just have to roll with it.

Denver is an example of that, to me.

Not sure I understand the comparison. The 2010 Celtics didn't do anything unconventional, they were a team of superstars that were underachieving through the season and turned it on in the playoffs.

If your message is simply to believe in Tebow, well, others can do that. I'm not really a Tebow fan and he has always kind of gotten under my skin with the whole religious thing. I don't want him to fail but neither am I that invested in wanting him to win.

I just think he is a below average quarterback getting way to much credit for the turnaround of the Denver Broncos.

Well Nick, I'm not sure why Tebow gets under your skin with his faith. He always seems humble, to me.

It's no different than players (of all sports) pointing skyward after a made bucket, a touchdown, etc.

He is what he is. I suppose that in being a man of faith he will always have some detractors, and that's ok.

I think he is getting his due credit for the Broncos turnaround, if you ask me. The QB is the leader, and if/when a team can rally around their QB then that is a good thing.

Of course other factors are in play, too...the Broncos are playing well defensively is a big plus. Tebow seems to be improving through all of this, too. His game yesterday was a step in that direction.

What I thought was unprofessional and disrespectful were the player(s) that did the "praying" stances over him after they had sacked or tackled him a few weeks ago.

But of course I didn't see any criticism directed towards those players. They got "credit" for good, clean football.

And as for my Celtics reference....I found the correlation easy to do, myself - even with the Celtics' alleged sleepwalk through that season, there were some doubters that never expected Boston to beat Lebron on the road, nor Dwight on the road, too.

Sports sometimes produce unexpected scenarios, and to me what DEN is doing with Tebow at the helm is unexpected.

[indeedproceed]

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/tim-tebows-success-inspiring-other-teams-to-start,26787/

(NSFW)


There is a pretty priceless Tebow pro's and con's list in there around the 1:10 mark.

Some cool quotes:

"Where are teams going to find quarterbacks as awful as Tebow?! The Chiefs just signed Kyle Orton, who was so bad he was cut in favor of Tebow, but there's no indication he's bad enough to win!"

[MBunge]

So for the second time in three weeks the Denver defense scores a touchdown, the broncos win by less than a touchdown, but it is Tebow that does all the winning.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The Denver defense played great in the first half and is the only reason they were still in the game.  But it was Denver's offense, including Tebow, that won the game in the 2nd half.

Do you have this same irrational reaction when EVERY OTHER quarterback gets all the credit for winning?

Mike

[nickagneta]

So for the second time in three weeks the Denver defense scores a touchdown, the broncos win by less than a touchdown, but it is Tebow that does all the winning.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The Denver defense played great in the first half and is the only reason they were still in the game.  But it was Denver's offense, including Tebow, that won the game in the 2nd half.

Do you have this same irrational reaction when EVERY OTHER quarterback gets all the credit for winning?

Mike

Trent Dilfer got all the credit for the Ravens and their SB season?

Eli Manning got all the credit for the Giants and their SB season?

Brad Johnson got all the credit for the Bucs and their SB season?

Did Matt Hasselback and Rex Grossman and Chris Chandler get all the credit when they led their teams into the SB?

While QB is the most visible position in football and gets a lot more credit for winning and losing than they should, usually they don't get all the credit, though they sometimes do get all the publicity.

But a ton of Tebows fans give him all the credit, even for the defense, which astounds me.

[indeedproceed]

But a ton of Tebows fans give him all the credit, even for the defense, which astounds me.

I think that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the conversation. The Tebow supporters, by and large I think (excepting fan-boys) would say Tebow's leadership deserves part of the credit for the defense's sudden uptick in performance. A part.

Just like they'll say things like "he doesn't throw a ball well", and they'll admit he's far from a prototypical NFL quarterback.

I think the argument gets driven to extremes when people have condescending dismissive things to say about Tim Tebow, with this over-arching 'You'll see I'm right when he starts losing' narrative that has been running since the first game.

They had a place in the first game, even the first 3..but I mean at some point some non-conditional credit ought to be given.

[nickagneta]

But a ton of Tebows fans give him all the credit, even for the defense, which astounds me.

I think that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the conversation. The Tebow supporters, by and large I think (excepting fan-boys) would say Tebow's leadership deserves part of the credit for the defense's sudden uptick in performance. A part.

Just like they'll say things like "he doesn't throw a ball well", and they'll admit he's far from a prototypical NFL quarterback.

I think the argument gets driven to extremes when people have condescending dismissive things to say about Tim Tebow, with this over-arching 'You'll see I'm right when he starts losing' narrative that has been running since the first game.

They had a place in the first game, even the first 3..but I mean at some point some non-conditional credit ought to be given.

I don't know IP.

I think in this thread I have read a lot more of the "Tebow is responsible for even the defense/Tebow is responsible for the whole team's turnaround" posts than I have the "You just wait til they start losing and you'll see I am right" posts.

[MBunge]

So for the second time in three weeks the Denver defense scores a touchdown, the broncos win by less than a touchdown, but it is Tebow that does all the winning.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The Denver defense played great in the first half and is the only reason they were still in the game.  But it was Denver's offense, including Tebow, that won the game in the 2nd half.

Do you have this same irrational reaction when EVERY OTHER quarterback gets all the credit for winning?

Mike

Trent Dilfer got all the credit for the Ravens and their SB season?

Eli Manning got all the credit for the Giants and their SB season?

Brad Johnson got all the credit for the Bucs and their SB season?

Did Matt Hasselback and Rex Grossman and Chris Chandler get all the credit when they led their teams into the SB?

While QB is the most visible position in football and gets a lot more credit for winning and losing than they should, usually they don't get all the credit, though they sometimes do get all the publicity.

But a ton of Tebows fans give him all the credit, even for the defense, which astounds me.

Who gives Tebow all the credit?  Who says NO ONE else on Denver is doing anything?  If people are overpraising Tebow, it is almost entirely in reaction to sourpusses like you.  You really don't have any cause to call other people irrational when you practically foam at the mouth with Tebow hatred.

Mike

[Finkelskyhook]

Re: What will Tebow be the NFL equivalent of?

Al Davis

Just win, baby.

[indeedproceed]

But a ton of Tebows fans give him all the credit, even for the defense, which astounds me.

I think that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the conversation. The Tebow supporters, by and large I think (excepting fan-boys) would say Tebow's leadership deserves part of the credit for the defense's sudden uptick in performance. A part.

Just like they'll say things like "he doesn't throw a ball well", and they'll admit he's far from a prototypical NFL quarterback.

I think the argument gets driven to extremes when people have condescending dismissive things to say about Tim Tebow, with this over-arching 'You'll see I'm right when he starts losing' narrative that has been running since the first game.

They had a place in the first game, even the first 3..but I mean at some point some non-conditional credit ought to be given.

I don't know IP.

I think in this thread I have read a lot more of the "Tebow is responsible for even the defense/Tebow is responsible for the whole team's turnaround" posts than I have the "You just wait til they start losing and you'll see I am right" posts.

Prove it. Spreadsheet, now!

[indeedproceed]

Lawyer'd.