Yet another Ray Allen trade idea

[wdleehi]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think there is something to the whole Pau Gasol/Memphis rationality, though.  Memphis dumped Gasol because they decided "we suck... nobody is coming to our games... why bother paying this guy if he's not helping us win and not selling tickets".   Right now Sac is a pretty average team.  If anyone is buying tickets, it's because of Tyreke Evans.  Why commit 100 million dollars to paying 3 guys who don't really matter much to your bottom line.  It's the same reason the Bucks will probably dump Michael Redd.   Brandon Jennings is going to sell tickets there... why bother paying Redd all that money if he's not really going to matter much to the team's success and not matter much to bringing in money.

Then Memphis went out and replaced him with Randolph.


And I think Sac went that route once before with Martin.  At first, he was selling tickets.  The the losing got old. 

[Gemini]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

[LarBrd33]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think there is something to the whole Pau Gasol/Memphis rationality, though.  Memphis dumped Gasol because they decided "we suck... nobody is coming to our games... why bother paying this guy if he's not helping us win and not selling tickets".   Right now Sac is a pretty average team.  If anyone is buying tickets, it's because of Tyreke Evans.  Why commit 100 million dollars to paying 3 guys who don't really matter much to your bottom line.  It's the same reason the Bucks will probably dump Michael Redd.   Brandon Jennings is going to sell tickets there... why bother paying Redd all that money if he's not really going to matter much to the team's success and not matter much to bringing in money.

Then Memphis went out and replaced him with Randolph.


And I think Sac went that route once before with Martin.  At first, he was selling tickets.  The the losing got old. 

Another team I can think of (a little different situation) that had the same mentality was Seattle.  They basically let anything of value either get traded or walk away after landing Durant.  Sure we can talk about the ulterior motives of the ownership, but basically I think the concept was, "Any fans that are willing to pay tickets to see this mediocre team are going to buy tickets to see Durant... so why bother paying Rashard Lewis or Ray Allen?".   They have had some success going that route.  It made some sense... anyone in SEattle (or Oklahoma last year) was basically just showing up to see Durant.

Right now I think Sacramento and Milwaukee are in a similar situation.  Anyone showing up to see those bad to mediocre teams are buying their tickets to see Tyreke Evans or Brandon Jennings.  We keep seeing sports writers write about this economy and how it will impact the direction teams take.  Seems if I'm the Bucks or Kings, I think to myself "look... we aint winning a title... we probably aint even making the playoffs even if we have all our players healthy.  Our ticket sales are dismal, but anyone buying tickets is here to see this stud rookie... I don't wanna pay So-and-so 20 million dollars a year if I don't have to.  I'm just going to save some cash, build around the youngster and base my ticket sales on his talent and my team of the future"

[wdleehi]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

[Chris]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

Yeah, Martin is one of the better bargains in the league, I can't see why anyone would want to trade him for an expiring contract. 

Now, if Utah offered them Boozer AND the Knicks first rounder, then they might listen.

[Gemini]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

Yeah, Martin is one of the better bargains in the league, I can't see why anyone would want to trade him for an expiring contract. 

Now, if Utah offered them Boozer AND the Knicks first rounder, then they might listen.

That makes less sense to me. They would lose Boozer after the season and still have long term money locked up in bench players. basicly they would be trading Martin for a 1st rounder and 12M in cap space. Why not do my trade and sign Boozer in the offseason

[CbrewEra]

Why so much wanting to trade Ray?  Though he may not be the all star he once was, at point he's the ultimate glue guy for our team.  I don't know how Kevin Martin would fit on this team, and I don't know if they'd even do that deal.  Seen him drop 50+ though.

[Gomesfan]

I would do this trade in a heart beat, I love Martin. The only scary thing is his health, he seems to be pretty fragile. I also like Nocioni and Beno.

I like the trade we get Martin who can score in and out. /Beno a solid back up PG and Nocioni as a back up SF and to top it all off we get younger!

TP

Maybe Sac. would do this for the salary dump. Maybe not.

[Gemini]

Why so much wanting to trade Ray?  Though he may not be the all star he once was, at point he's the ultimate glue guy for our team.  I don't know how Kevin Martin would fit on this team, and I don't know if they'd even do that deal.  Seen him drop 50+ though.

The reason I want to trade him is becuase i'm scared for the future. Say the celts let Ray walk they do not have the cap flexabiltiy to replace him. They could sign him back for less but he will be a year older and this team will eventually turn into the Celtics of the early 90's. If you trade him right now you could get alot for him including a future replacement.  

[wdleehi]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

Yeah, Martin is one of the better bargains in the league, I can't see why anyone would want to trade him for an expiring contract. 

Now, if Utah offered them Boozer AND the Knicks first rounder, then they might listen.

That makes less sense to me. They would lose Boozer after the season and still have long term money locked up in bench players. basicly they would be trading Martin for a 1st rounder and 12M in cap space. Why not do my trade and sign Boozer in the offseason

The NY 1st is valuable.  They would have the inside track to resign Boozer. 

[Gemini]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

Please note that I agree that manu id older and Howard isnt as good as martin but i didnt say Amare or manu or Howard. I said All three. and all three are much better then Howard, Nocioni and beno.

AAgain that was just an example of whats available for FA's

[Chris]

Sac is defnitly not a FA hot spot but we have seen that change pretty quickly. Cash is king and only a select few teams have the ability to offer a max deal. They could offer 2 which is pretty attractive. They will have a lottery pick this year as well as the C's first rounder to go with Evans/Hawes/Thompson/Garcia Add two max deal guys and you have a contender for the next several years

Who wants to go to Sac that is better then Martin?  Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you are going to bring in the big FA.  (honestly, the only guys that would make sense are Bosh, Lebron or Wade.  Anyone else is either no better then Martin or older then Martin)


Now if the team was moved to Las Vegas, then that would change everything.

I think its more the fact that they could sign multiple FA's. Im sure they like martin but they may condiser dealing him to get away from Nocioni and Beno. They would have the cap space to sign for exaple

Amare, Ginobli, and Josh Howard

Thats just a quick example but they are a ton of FA's availble this year and i would rather go to battle with those three then Martin/Nocioni/Beno

Amare is the only one that makes sense to them.  Manu is to old.  Howard isn't near as good as Martin. 

If they trade Martin, they will want back more then cap space.  (at least a high 1st to go along with cap space)

Yeah, Martin is one of the better bargains in the league, I can't see why anyone would want to trade him for an expiring contract. 

Now, if Utah offered them Boozer AND the Knicks first rounder, then they might listen.

That makes less sense to me. They would lose Boozer after the season and still have long term money locked up in bench players. basicly they would be trading Martin for a 1st rounder and 12M in cap space. Why not do my trade and sign Boozer in the offseason

The NY 1st is valuable.  They would have the inside track to resign Boozer. 

Exactly, or sign and trade him.  But ultimately, it is for the high lottery pick.

[fugazzi24]

How about we trade Ray for those guys then Sac turns around and buys Ray out and he comes back to the Celtics.  Then we have Ray and Martin for the rest of the season. 

[CbrewEra]

The reason I want to trade him is becuase i'm scared for the future. Say the celts let Ray walk they do not have the cap flexabiltiy to replace him. They could sign him back for less but he will be a year older and this team will eventually turn into the Celtics of the early 90's. If you trade him right now you could get alot for him including a future replacement.  
[/quote]

True, I also worry about taking a guy who fits this offense so well away though.  He really has become quite a glue guy for this team, as everything he does comes well within the flow of the game and team structure.
Kevin Martin is so enticing though, a great talent.  I feel like Nocioni would be a good glue guy for the second unit, but I dont know how I feel about K.M coming in, and runnin the back court with Rondo.

[BballTim]

What does everyone think of this deal?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf7drqy

In

Kevin Martin
Nocioni
Udrich

Out

Ray Allen
Scal
Bill Walker

I have to think that Sacramento would consider this trade. They would be dumping tons of bad salary over the next serveral years. Im sure they would have a hard time trading martin but it may be worth it to get rid of the other guys. Maybe the C's would have to throw in a 1st rounder.
The Celts would be interested becuase they would be getting a boarder line Allstar in martin that shoots lights out as well Nocioni who they have been hot for and a good bad up PG.

  Trading Ray for a younger player is to help extend our window. Picking up bad salaries works in the opposite direction.