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Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« on: December 10, 2009, 04:47:22 PM »

Offline wiley

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Okay.  Some of you out there feel that the backup PG issue, especially in the absence of Daniels, should be solved by playing Rondo more minutes.  These same people, who I disagree with, tend not to be worried about needing another PG in case of injury to Rondo,  feeling that someone among Eddie, Marquis, Ray, Paul and Tony Allen could do the job in the playoffs.  They may or may not support this opinion by saying that without Rondo the Celtics aren't going anywhere anyway, so why bother screwing around with our roster. (I disagree on that point as well).

Anyway, here is a list of decent to mediocre PG's who, I think, could probably be trusted to get the ball over half court in the playoffs, not an easy job, with a bit less anxiety provoked in fandom than would be the case with Eddie, Marquis, Ray, Paul or Tony (or Lester, for that matter).

So, if Rondo suffered an injury during the playoffs, who would you most like to see starting at PG for the Celtics:

In answering the above question, be thoughtful about how easy or not easy it would be to have your player on the C's roster.  In other words, some of these PG's are better than others, and what would you give up to get them.....(For example, Eddie at starting PG costs the Celtics nothing in terms of a trade, etc..)  Also, I tried not to list PG's who are either too good (costly) or who the team trading that player would not want Boston to have...for example, I didn't include any Cavs, Magic or Hawks PG's, etc...)

Eddie
Marquis
Ray
Tony Allen
Paul Pierce
Rafer Alston
Ramon Sessions
Kyle Lowry
Darren Collison
Travis Diener
Luke Ridnour
Speedy Claxton
CJ Watson
Lindsey Hunter
Janerro Pargo
Beaubois
Barea
Will Bynum
Telfair
Livingston
Dragic
Barbosa
Banks
Boykins
Foye
Crittenton

Okay, who would you trust as our starting PG during pressure packed games and/or generally want to see on the Celts for insurance?
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 04:49:16 PM »

Offline Drucci

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From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 04:59:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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wiley, if you jinx Rondo and he gets hurt for the season, I really hope you get banned from the site.  >:( >:( >:(



Hope you know I'm kidding. ;) :D ;D


Or am I?? :P
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 05:02:57 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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Banned from CelticsBlog?  I'd be more worried about your kneecaps getting broken...  ;)
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 05:10:25 PM »

Offline wiley

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Quote from: nickagneta on December 10, 2009, 04:59:24 PM
wiley, if you jinx Rondo and he gets hurt for the season, I really hope you get banned from the site.  >:( >:( >:(



Hope you know I'm kidding. ;) :D ;D


Or am I?? :P


Yes, my harping on a PG for insurance does make me a bit queasy for superstitious reasons.  I will ban myself if I turn out to have magic powers.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 05:12:30 PM »

Offline wiley

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Quote from: Drucci on December 10, 2009, 04:49:16 PM
From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.

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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 05:16:18 PM »

Offline Who

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The main problem here is the lack of trade assets the Celtics have that they're willing to part with.

* Expiring contracts are the Celtics main asset but they're only valuable assets when cutting team's medium-to-long term payroll. They have no value when in exchange for other expiring contracts. Expiring contracts also have more value when dealing with substantial contracts ($5+ million, $10+ million) but very little value when dealing with low paid contracts such as rookie scale contracts.
* No good prospects -- Walker, Giddens, Hudson.
* Not much established talent -- Glen Davis?
* Low draft picks which the C's may not be willing to part with.

That lack of assets limits the trade market for Boston ... and I reckon it wipes out a good chunk of the names on that list (nine players). Then there's players who I wouldn't consider good enough to play rotation minutes on a contender, or start in Rondo's absence, which wipes out most of the remaining names (nine more players).

Quote from: wiley on December 10, 2009, 04:47:22 PM
Rafer Alston -- expiring
Ramon Sessions -- good contract, good player
Kyle Lowry -- expiring + possibly in long term plans
Darren Collison -- rookie contract
Travis Diener -- bad player
Luke Ridnour -- expiring
Speedy Claxton -- health, bad player
CJ Watson -- decent backup PG, not good enough to play big minutes. Not available either (Orlando offered a great trade package for him in the summer and were rebuffed).
Lindsey Hunter -- not good enough
Janerro Pargo -- not good enough
Beaubois -- rookie contract
Barea -- good contract
Will Bynum -- expiring
Telfair -- not good enough
Livingston -- not good enough
Dragic -- rookie contract
Barbosa -- would likely take more than the C's have to offer
Banks -- not good enough
Boykins -- not good enough
Foye -- expiring
Crittenton -- not good enough
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 05:16:41 PM »

Kiorrik

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Quote from: the_Bird on December 10, 2009, 05:02:57 PM
Banned from CelticsBlog?  I'd be more worried about your kneecaps getting broken...  ;)
The only possible comeback from what Nick said, well done ;)

That said, I dunno who I trust more, but I do know that it's something I don't want to worry about.

If I'd have to vote for one guy on that list, then I saw the name Dragic on there. Isn't he with the Suns right now? Cba looking it up atm, will do that later. But if he's the Suns backup PG -> I like that guy.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 05:17:10 PM »

Offline RickyDavisfor3

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people tend to forget about Coach Lue...
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 05:19:03 PM »

Offline Who

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Quote from: wiley on December 10, 2009, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Drucci on December 10, 2009, 04:49:16 PM
From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.


I think Rafer would cost a first round pick ... the Celtics don't have much else to offer.

That's a trade well worth doing if Rondo went down with a season ending injury prior to the trade deadline but I'm not convinced that's a good trade for Boston otherwise.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 05:27:44 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Quote from: Who on December 10, 2009, 05:16:18 PM
The main problem here is the lack of trade assets the Celtics have that they're willing to part with.

* Expiring contracts are the Celtics main asset but they're only valuable assets when cutting team's medium-to-long term payroll. They have no value when in exchange for other expiring contracts. Expiring contracts also have more value when dealing with substantial contracts ($5+ million, $10+ million) but very little value when dealing with low paid contracts such as rookie scale contracts.
* No good prospects -- Walker, Giddens, Hudson.
* Not much established talent -- Glen Davis?
* Low draft picks which the C's may not be willing to part with.

That lack of assets limits the trade market for Boston ... and I reckon it wipes out a good chunk of the names on that list (nine players). Then there's players who I wouldn't consider good enough to play rotation minutes on a contender, or start in Rondo's absence, which wipes out most of the remaining names (nine more players).

Quote from: wiley on December 10, 2009, 04:47:22 PM
Rafer Alston -- expiring
Ramon Sessions -- good contract, good player
Kyle Lowry -- expiring + possibly in long term plans
Darren Collison -- rookie contract
Travis Diener -- bad player
Luke Ridnour -- expiring
Speedy Claxton -- health, bad player
CJ Watson -- decent backup PG, not good enough to play big minutes. Not available either (Orlando offered a great trade package for him in the summer and were rebuffed).
Lindsey Hunter -- not good enough
Janerro Pargo -- not good enough
Beaubois -- rookie contract
Barea -- good contract
Will Bynum -- expiring
Telfair -- not good enough
Livingston -- not good enough
Dragic -- rookie contract
Barbosa -- would likely take more than the C's have to offer
Banks -- not good enough
Boykins -- not good enough
Foye -- expiring
Crittenton -- not good enough

The Nets would do a deal involving Glen Davis for Alston. Not that I would, at least not right now...
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Mike

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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 05:29:27 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote from: Who on December 10, 2009, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: wiley on December 10, 2009, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Drucci on December 10, 2009, 04:49:16 PM
From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.


I think Rafer would cost a first round pick ... the Celtics don't have much else to offer.

That's a trade well worth doing if Rondo went down with a season ending injury prior to the trade deadline but I'm not convinced that's a good trade for Boston otherwise.
Last year the Magic had to give up Brian Cook, Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 first round draft pick for Alston in a three way trade where Houston got Kyle Lowry from Memphis.

If the Celtics are dealing from a position of weakness, Baby and a first rounder would have to go to get a player like Alston who has already proven he can be plugged into a contending team's open PG slot and succeed.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2009, 05:48:20 PM »

Offline Who

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Talent wise a Glen Davis-for-Rafer Alston trade definitely has merit ... but I would have thought the New Jersey Nets would have rated their cap space above Glen Davis.

I don't see why NJ gives up cap space for a marginal player.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2009, 05:58:56 PM »

Offline wiley

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Quote from: RickyDavisfor3 on December 10, 2009, 05:17:10 PM
people tend to forget about Coach Lue...

Okay, I think you've nailed it.  Our plan for insurance, that is. 

He'll certainly know the system, plays, etc...
hope he's in shape.
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Re: Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2009, 07:00:55 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Quote from: wiley on December 10, 2009, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: RickyDavisfor3 on December 10, 2009, 05:17:10 PM
people tend to forget about Coach Lue...

Okay, I think you've nailed it.  Our plan for insurance, that is. 

He'll certainly know the system, plays, etc...
hope he's in shape.

He falls into the "not good enough" category though. I mean he was the Magic's third string point guard last year. Then Jameer got injured but he remained the 3rd stringer when the Magic acquired Alston. During the playoffs last year when Jameer came back Lue was either a 4th string back up pg or wasn't on the playoff roster. He might be a good enough back up for the bottom teams in the league but being a 4th stringer pg in the finals really doesn't excite me.
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