Author Topic: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?  (Read 6424 times)

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Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 12:23:39 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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You can't judge him on the 3 games he played with the Hornets against the Celtics.
I was referring to three Hornets games I've watched this year, actually four. I wasn't counting the game they played the C's.

In most of them he hasn't played much, and has been pretty blah overall when he has been on the court.

I read the topic, and nothing in there convinces me. We'd either have to let Ray go or not use the MLE to avoid blowing the teams budget. It'd be a bad move, especially when we could get a player who's better than Posey with the MLE itself.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 12:25:26 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Posey is playing terribly and looks out of shape. Not sure how much he could offer regardless of his contract situation, which is also bad.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 12:46:11 PM »

Offline Drucci

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You can't judge him on the 3 games he played with the Hornets against the Celtics.
I was referring to three Hornets games I've watched this year, actually four. I wasn't counting the game they played the C's.

In most of them he hasn't played much, and has been pretty blah overall when he has been on the court.

I read the topic, and nothing in there convinces me. We'd either have to let Ray go or not use the MLE to avoid blowing the teams budget. It'd be a bad move, especially when we could get a player who's better than Posey with the MLE itself.

Understand, I agree with you on that point : if acquiring Posey means letting Ray go, then I'm all against this trade. However, if we can acquire him while re-signing Ray next summer (which is a likely scenario), then, what's the cost? My only problem with Posey is that he has a terrible contract running on 3 years and that he has, say, 2 good years left. But as I said before, Rasheed is in the same position (and even older actually) and I didn't hear people complain about giving him the contract he got.

Our window is really short. It would be great to acquire the famous "young wing with a long term but OK contract" but, seriously, no player fits that description, and even if he was, we don't have the pieces needed to acquire him by trade, nor the money to do so by free agency next summer.

Posey is playing terribly and looks out of shape. Not sure how much he could offer regardless of his contract situation, which is also bad.

Have you seen him play this season?

Just so you can compare, here are his stats from his year in Boston :

24 minutes per game, 7 points, 4 rebounds, 1,5 assist, 1 steal, 41% shooting, 38% from 3

Last season (2008-2009) in New Orleans : 28 minutes, 9 points, 5 rebonds, 1 assist, 0,8 steal, 41% shooting, 37% from 3

This season (after 20 games) : 22 minutes, 5,5 points, 3 rebounds, 1,5 assists, 0,6 steal, 38% shooting, 37,5% from 3

Do you notice a huge dropoff? The guy is playing 2 minutes less and has almost the same stats that 2 years ago. His versatility is still here, as are his shooting skills and his defense. He is just getting less and less playing time because Stojakovic (former star), Wright and Thornton (rising young players) are more needed in New Orleans' offense.

I don't know where these "Posey is out of shape/done" comments come from. Posey is still the perfect role player, and the only question mark about him is his awful contract. Other than that, he is the most interesting available wing on the market, considering that NO doesn't need him any more and that they want to get rid of his contract.

We're not talking about acquiring Posey to use him as a starter or anything, but just to allow Pierce and Ray to rest during the season, and to shut or slow down opponent teams' superstar in the playoffs while knocking his 3's on offense. The lineup of House/Daniels/Posey/Baby/Sheed would be perfect for the bench and in case of an injury.

I understand the owners and Danny are reluctant to overpay a role player like Posey, especially when they refused to give him his deal two years ago, but it certainly looks like he is one of our best options for the present and the near future, considering that we are in "win now, worry about the future later mode" until 2012 (and maybe even earlier that this deadline). We won't have the chance to sign a good and young player this summer.

Another similarity between Sheed and Posey : Sheed didn't play well with the Pistons last season because he quit on them. Since he is here, except for his shooting slumps, he has brought us all the things we wanted.

Posey doesn't seem to be good anymore because he doesn't fit anymore in New Orleans (if he has ever fit there). But his stats are here to prove that he is still the same excellent role player, whose role would be perfect in our system.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 12:52:59 PM by Drucci »

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 12:52:53 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Posey sucks now. You can't just assume that it's because he's on a bad team, it's just as likely he's just too old.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 12:53:43 PM »

Offline Drucci

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Posey sucks now. You can't just assume that it's because he's on a bad team, it's just as likely he's just too old.

Could you please read my post or at least give some arguments to affirm that "Posey sucks"? Because it does hurt your credibility to say so without any argument to back up your words.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 01:04:28 PM »

Offline Prof. Clutch

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I'm not the biggest fan of Posey's contract, and I would prefer if we could target someone younger and more athletic, but if he's one of the guys who's available and we don't have to give up anything of value to get him then I could get down with a trade for Posey.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2009, 01:20:05 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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You can't judge him on the 3 games he played with the Hornets against the Celtics.
I was referring to three Hornets games I've watched this year, actually four. I wasn't counting the game they played the C's.

In most of them he hasn't played much, and has been pretty blah overall when he has been on the court.

I read the topic, and nothing in there convinces me. We'd either have to let Ray go or not use the MLE to avoid blowing the teams budget. It'd be a bad move, especially when we could get a player who's better than Posey with the MLE itself.

Understand, I agree with you on that point : if acquiring Posey means letting Ray go, then I'm all against this trade. However, if we can acquire him while re-signing Ray next summer (which is a likely scenario), then, what's the cost? My only problem with Posey is that he has a terrible contract running on 3 years and that he has, say, 2 good years left. But as I said before, Rasheed is in the same position (and even older actually) and I didn't hear people complain about giving him the contract he got.

Our window is really short. It would be great to acquire the famous "young wing with a long term but OK contract" but, seriously, no player fits that description, and even if he was, we don't have the pieces needed to acquire him by trade, nor the money to do so by free agency next summer.

Posey is playing terribly and looks out of shape. Not sure how much he could offer regardless of his contract situation, which is also bad.

Have you seen him play this season?

Just so you can compare, here are his stats from his year in Boston :

24 minutes per game, 7 points, 4 rebounds, 1,5 assist, 1 steal, 41% shooting, 38% from 3

Last season (2008-2009) in New Orleans : 28 minutes, 9 points, 5 rebonds, 1 assist, 0,8 steal, 41% shooting, 37% from 3

This season (after 20 games) : 22 minutes, 5,5 points, 3 rebounds, 1,5 assists, 0,6 steal, 38% shooting, 37,5% from 3

Do you notice a huge dropoff? The guy is playing 2 minutes less and has almost the same stats that 2 years ago. His versatility is still here, as are his shooting skills and his defense. He is just getting less and less playing time because Stojakovic (former star), Wright and Thornton (rising young players) are more needed in New Orleans' offense.

I don't know where these "Posey is out of shape/done" comments come from. Posey is still the perfect role player, and the only question mark about him is his awful contract. Other than that, he is the most interesting available wing on the market, considering that NO doesn't need him any more and that they want to get rid of his contract.

We're not talking about acquiring Posey to use him as a starter or anything, but just to allow Pierce and Ray to rest during the season, and to shut or slow down opponent teams' superstar in the playoffs while knocking his 3's on offense. The lineup of House/Daniels/Posey/Baby/Sheed would be perfect for the bench and in case of an injury.

I understand the owners and Danny are reluctant to overpay a role player like Posey, especially when they refused to give him his deal two years ago, but it certainly looks like he is one of our best options for the present and the near future, considering that we are in "win now, worry about the future later mode" until 2012 (and maybe even earlier that this deadline). We won't have the chance to sign a good and young player this summer.

Another similarity between Sheed and Posey : Sheed didn't play well with the Pistons last season because he quit on them. Since he is here, except for his shooting slumps, he has brought us all the things we wanted.

Posey doesn't seem to be good anymore because he doesn't fit anymore in New Orleans (if he has ever fit there). But his stats are here to prove that he is still the same excellent role player, whose role would be perfect in our system.


Maybe I was a little harsh. But his stats per 36 minutes are all down. If you like win share stats, here are his for the last three years from bballreference:
08 - 6.2
09 - 4.2
10 - 0.6
He is coming off knee surgery (scope) and he just doesn't look the same to me. I have seen NO play a couple of times this year and I don;t knw if it is the losing but he is not playing with the same energy. Of course I would love Posey back to give the same thing he gave us two years ago. However the price is far too steep considering his production to me is not a sure thing. We can weather Daniels' injury without making a move like this.

Edit: Poseys Defeinsive Win Share Stats (probably more important)
08 - 4.0 (career high)
09 - 2.4
10 - 0.2 (career low)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 01:26:49 PM by Greenbean »

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2009, 01:24:32 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Posey sucks now. You can't just assume that it's because he's on a bad team, it's just as likely he's just too old.

Could you please read my post or at least give some arguments to affirm that "Posey sucks"? Because it does hurt your credibility to say so without any argument to back up your words.

that particular argument may indeed be vapid, but you've also dismissed some valid ones.

Ive seen posey play for NO this year, and for a bunch of games last year on league pass. he is not the same player he was for us in 08.

If we could get him back for peanuts, that would be fine with me, but his contract is still a huge albatross, and i can understand the front offices non-interest in even exploring taking it back. NO regretted it half a year after giving it to him.
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Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2009, 01:33:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Drucci, what is Posey known for? What is it that he really gets paid to do?

Be the defensive stopper for the wing position off the bench while hitting the occasional three, right? Well, if that is correct, then take a look at his 82games.com Opponent Counterpart 48 Minute Production numbers from

this year: http://www.82games.com/0910/09NOH7.HTM

and 2007-08: http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM

Some highlights:

eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 42.7% and 51.0%
eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 62.6% and 75.0%

Points against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 17.2 and 22.6
Points against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 25.3 and 25.3

PER against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 18.6 and 22.2
PER against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 22.2 and 29.8

Posey's defense this year in the 3-4 games I have see him play has been atrocious. Couple that with the slight decline in his offensive stats, which you showed, and that's a player who isn't playing well.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2009, 01:55:18 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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How many times do we have to walk down this Posey road?  Danny was never going to give a four year contract to an older player with a diminishing skill set.  What makes you think Danny would be interested now, when his numbers are heading south and he will be drastically overpaid for the next 2.5 years.  I am thankful for what James Posey did for the Celtics and felt like he was a difference maker than, but he isn't one now.  This was probably Danny's best non-sign.  The Celtics don't have the luxury of a "Red Sox willing to eat 1/2 of Mike Lowell's cotract" situation.

His numbers are heading south (and not as much as you make it sound, though, especially in FG% both from two and three point land) because he doesn't fit in New Orleans, not because he is lacking talent or skills. He still has it. He is likely to lose it in the final 2 years of his contract but right now he is as good as he was.

Slamtheking > I know that moving our expirings to acquire a younger or better wing than Posey is the scenario that makes the most sense but frankly, could you find a player that fits this description? I'd rather have a older Posey and his contract than a younger but not as effective Nocioni. And these are the 2 wings we can realistically afford this season by trading our expirings.
I don't think we can trade for a wing that is young and has an OK contract running for two or more years. We will have to take a one year rental (Raja Bell?) or a long term commitment to a bad contract (James Posey?). Since the first scenario isn't likely to happen... I think we should opt for the second one or stay put but I feel like we would regret it if we didn't do anything. Imagine Marquis getting hurt in the playoffs and not able to play. That would kill us.

So I definitely wonder if Danny is considering Posey because it seems like a legit question to me, not just an "old good memory" from the championship year!
I disagree with your assumption that we can't get someone younger than Posey for that role.  There are other players that will be available as the season progresses that are younger and better than Posey that have contracts running for multiple years.  That's the appeal for the other team acquiring our expiring deals--->to rid themselves of long-term $.  Danny will be able to land someone on a multi-year deal that will be able to contribute----the trade-off for the C's is just how bad a contract they're willing to take on. 

Posey will not be that player because he does not address the need of solidifying the bench for the next 2-3 years.



Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2009, 02:04:22 PM »

Offline Drucci

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Drucci, what is Posey known for? What is it that he really gets paid to do?

Be the defensive stopper for the wing position off the bench while hitting the occasional three, right? Well, if that is correct, then take a look at his 82games.com Opponent Counterpart 48 Minute Production numbers from

this year: http://www.82games.com/0910/09NOH7.HTM

and 2007-08: http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM

Some highlights:

eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 42.7% and 51.0%
eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 62.6% and 75.0%

Points against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 17.2 and 22.6
Points against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 25.3 and 25.3

PER against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 18.6 and 22.2
PER against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 22.2 and 29.8

Posey's defense this year in the 3-4 games I have see him play has been atrocious. Couple that with the slight decline in his offensive stats, which you showed, and that's a player who isn't playing well.


Ah, I was searching for defensive stats but couldn't find none!

Well... let's say you just showered my desire to get Posey back with these stats and quite ruined my arguments. :o

Although I do think that even if he isn't as good as before on individual D, he would perform a lot better in our system and in the team defense that he does with New Orleans. The lack of motivation and of a good role is crucial too.

But with that said, if Posey doesn't defend well anymore, well, he is not worth our expirings... sadly. :-\ I guess I would have to watch Posey more often to know if his defensive efficiency dropping is due to its team poor team defense or mostly to his regression. Your stats show a drop-off but not excessive though.

Slamtheking > but could you name a current young and good wing player with a long term contract (and not a bad one) who could get traded so his team made paycuts? I'm all for acquiring such a player but I don't think of one that we could realistically acquire...

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2009, 02:16:02 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Drucci, what is Posey known for? What is it that he really gets paid to do?

Be the defensive stopper for the wing position off the bench while hitting the occasional three, right? Well, if that is correct, then take a look at his 82games.com Opponent Counterpart 48 Minute Production numbers from

this year: http://www.82games.com/0910/09NOH7.HTM

and 2007-08: http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM

Some highlights:

eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 42.7% and 51.0%
eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 62.6% and 75.0%

Points against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 17.2 and 22.6
Points against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 25.3 and 25.3

PER against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 18.6 and 22.2
PER against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 22.2 and 29.8

Posey's defense this year in the 3-4 games I have see him play has been atrocious. Couple that with the slight decline in his offensive stats, which you showed, and that's a player who isn't playing well.


Ah, I was searching for defensive stats but couldn't find none!

Well... let's say you just showered my desire to get Posey back with these stats and quite ruined my arguments. :o

Although I do think that even if he isn't as good as before on individual D, he would perform a lot better in our system and in the team defense that he does with New Orleans. The lack of motivation and of a good role is crucial too.

But with that said, if Posey doesn't defend well anymore, well, he is not worth our expirings... sadly. :-\ I guess I would have to watch Posey more often to know if his defensive efficiency dropping is due to its team poor team defense or mostly to his regression. Your stats show a drop-off but not excessive though.

Slamtheking > but could you name a current young and good wing player with a long term contract (and not a bad one) who could get traded so his team made paycuts? I'm all for acquiring such a player but I don't think of one that we could realistically acquire...

Exactly Drucci. The problem is the risk involved. His stats show he has regressed. We can never be sure if it is due to his play or the team that is surrounding him unless we are a coach on the Hornets. He could come here and be hooked up to the rejuvenation machine and give us 7 months of championship defense, or he could come in and give us little more than Scal provides already. Scary thought.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2009, 02:27:32 PM »

Offline footey

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Some of those aren't big losses, others would decimate our team. The Celtics will only have the MLE and bird rights to those players to work with. By taking on a contract like Posey's I'd worry that we'd no longer have the payroll budget to use the MLE and extend Ray Allen.

If getting Posey means not extending Ray, then I'm all against trading for Posey. But I remember that acquiring Nocioni wouldn't prevent us from re-signing Ray so acquiring Posey wouldn't cause a problem with Ray too if I'm not mistaken.
Where have you read that? The budget of the team isn't unlimited, adding a contract like Posey's would certainly impose some limitations. We at the very least wouldn't be able to spend the MLE again this coming year. Worse we might not be able to afford Ray's services.

We'll have to disagree on Posey's decline. Its been pretty clear to me in the 3 NOH games that he's lost a step.

I had created a topic about it, and the answers were positive, see it there  : http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=32995.0

I understand that if Danny traded for Posey he would admit making a mistake two years ago by not re-signing him but still I don't think Posey is as old as people describe him here. You can't judge him on the 3 games he played with the Hornets against the Celtics.

Thanks for the answers anyway, I have top abandon my dream to get back to the reality : Danny won't consider it. :-X

Danny is not afraid to admit a mistake (and I don't think letting Posey go at 4 years was a mistake, personally). Witness his willingness to re-sign Antoine when he thought it would help us. Danny is all about winning, period.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2009, 02:42:41 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Understand, I agree with you on that point : if acquiring Posey means letting Ray go, then I'm all against this trade. However, if we can acquire him while re-signing Ray next summer (which is a likely scenario), then, what's the cost? My only problem with Posey is that he has a terrible contract running on 3 years and that he has, say, 2 good years left. But as I said before, Rasheed is in the same position (and even older actually) and I didn't hear people complain about giving him the contract he got.
For me the sticking point is spending the MLE.

Especially since we can get a better player than Posey for the MLE.

Re: Do you think Danny would consider trading for Posey this season?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2009, 02:52:29 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Drucci, what is Posey known for? What is it that he really gets paid to do?

Be the defensive stopper for the wing position off the bench while hitting the occasional three, right? Well, if that is correct, then take a look at his 82games.com Opponent Counterpart 48 Minute Production numbers from

this year: http://www.82games.com/0910/09NOH7.HTM

and 2007-08: http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM

Some highlights:

eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 42.7% and 51.0%
eFG% against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 62.6% and 75.0%

Points against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 17.2 and 22.6
Points against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 25.3 and 25.3

PER against for the SF/PF position in 2007-08 = 18.6 and 22.2
PER against for the SF/PF position in 2009-10 = 22.2 and 29.8

Posey's defense this year in the 3-4 games I have see him play has been atrocious. Couple that with the slight decline in his offensive stats, which you showed, and that's a player who isn't playing well.


Ah, I was searching for defensive stats but couldn't find none!

Well... let's say you just showered my desire to get Posey back with these stats and quite ruined my arguments. :o

Although I do think that even if he isn't as good as before on individual D, he would perform a lot better in our system and in the team defense that he does with New Orleans. The lack of motivation and of a good role is crucial too.

But with that said, if Posey doesn't defend well anymore, well, he is not worth our expirings... sadly. :-\ I guess I would have to watch Posey more often to know if his defensive efficiency dropping is due to its team poor team defense or mostly to his regression. Your stats show a drop-off but not excessive though.

Slamtheking > but could you name a current young and good wing player with a long term contract (and not a bad one) who could get traded so his team made paycuts? I'm all for acquiring such a player but I don't think of one that we could realistically acquire...

Well, just sticking with the Hornets, Julian Wright is an option.
2009/10: $2,000,040, 2010/11: $2,858,056 (Team Option), 

Younger, can cover the same players.  granted the team has an option on him after this year but that would be of interest to the C's so that they could keep him another year whereas NO may look at him as a salary cut to save $ for the following year.  C's may have to sweeten the pot for NO to have any interest in the deal but there are much better options out there than Posey