Which is the best ownership group in Boston sports?

[Eja117]

Not sure how I feel about this one.

I guess I'd go with whoever makes the least profit to deliver a championship team.

I might not go with Kraft. I find him tooo...krafty

[Roy Hobbs]

Tough decision.  It's tough to compare across the sports, because the Sox can spend with no real limitation, while the Celtics can't.

I respect the ownership of the Celts, Sox, and Patriots.  All of them seem to provide their teams the financial resources they need, while at the same time backing off and letting their GMs / coaches do what they need to do.

Ultimately, I went with Bob Kraft.  I don't like some of John Henry's "evil empire" crap, and I think he inserted himself too much, too publicly into the Texeira negotiations.  Wyc also sometimes talks about things he doesn't really know about, and the "I was being Belichekian" stuff about KG's injury put me off. 

Therefore, it's Kraft by default.  He's got the most championships, and he saved the team from being moved.  He's spent money when he needed to, but also trusted Belichek's judgment when franchise players needed to be moved.  It's close, but I think he's probably the best of a very good bunch.

[nickagneta]

Kraft built his own stadium, a state of the art stadium no less, on his own land with little to no assistance from the taxpayers while maintaining excellence on the field. That wins in my book.

[Eja117]

I totally see the arguments for Kraft, it's just that I think for one thing what nick is giving him credit for is something they should all do, but just don't.

I also think he's the only one of the three who made suggestions about maybe moving the team.

Whereas Henry seems to really try hard to do what he can with Fenway even though it's an 1800s park.

granted maybe I'm wrong about something here

[Roy Hobbs]

Here's part of the Kraft biography from Patriots.com:

Under Kraft, the Patriots have experienced one of the most dramatic turnarounds in the history of sports. In the four seasons immediately preceding Kraft's acquisition (1990-93), the Patriots compiled an NFL-worst 14-50 (.219) overall record, which included a 1-15 finish in 1990 and a 2-14 record in 1992. The Patriots were not only last in the standings, they were last in attendance and overall revenue.

But it didn't take long for Kraft's vision to come into focus. His personal investment in the team restored the faith of Patriots fans and rejuvenated interest throughout New England. The year he bought the team, season ticket sales soared to new heights, eclipsing 40,000 for the first time in franchise history. By the start of his first season, every game was sold out, a feat that had never been accomplished in the franchise's previous 34 seasons. The achievement ensured that local broadcast blackouts would be lifted and every Patriots game, home and away, would be televised throughout New England for the first time in team history. Every game has been sold out since that 1994 season opener. By season's end, the consecutive sellout streak will extend to 169 games.

That's a pretty impressive track record.  It's true that he did negotiate with Hartford when the Mass legislature was balking at funding certain infrastructure improvements, but at the end of the day he stayed in Foxboro and used $350 million of his own money to finance one of the best stadiums in pro sports.

As mentioned, Henry and Wyc have both been great, as well.  All three owners took over teams in long championship droughts, and committed the resources to win.  I think the Patriots were probably the most hopeless case of any of those three teams, though, and the Pats have been the most successful of any of those teams. 

[nickagneta]

I totally see the arguments for Kraft, it's just that I think for one thing what nick is giving him credit for is something they should all do, but just don't.

In an era where just about no NBA team owns their own arena and a large majority of baseball and football stadiums are being subsidized by taxpayers, that Kraft was told by the state of Massachusetts that he was not going to get any subsidies and he still went out and spent some $300+ million of his own money to build Gillette Stadium, a state of the art football facility that is one of the best parks in the NFL and developed all that land down in Foxborough easily makes him the best owner of the bunch.

He didn't have to stay or build a new stadium or build a fabulous facility. But he did, which to me separates him from the rest.

[Eja117]

I totally see the arguments for Kraft, it's just that I think for one thing what nick is giving him credit for is something they should all do, but just don't.

In an era where just about no NBA team owns their own arena and a large majority of baseball and football stadiums are being subsidized by taxpayers, that Kraft was told by the state of Massachusetts that he was not going to get any subsidies and he still went out and spent some $300+ million of his own money to build Gillette Stadium, a state of the art football facility that is one of the best parks in the NFL and developed all that land down in Foxborough easily makes him the best owner of the bunch.

He didn't have to stay or build a new stadium or build a fabulous facility. But he did, which to me separates him from the rest.

I see what you are saying nick, it's just that to me the hero in that scenario was the state of MA, not him.

I definitely wish other owners would follow his example.

I'm a little curious if Kraft thought he could make more money moving the team if he would. I kinda think since he was a fan he wouldn't.

Also I think when you have guys with tons and tons of money it's easier to do what he did, whereas teams with no money have to sell or move.  hard to say

It definitely sets him apart and makes me like him that he invested in a product he owns and believes in. But as a typical spoiled fan I sorta felt like he owed that. Didn't we support him tremendously? In a manner of speaking we paid for that stadium, not him.

I mean would you try to move the team if you were the owner? or would you be satisfied with only making the money Kraft makes off the Pats? And is that cause you're a hero and a top notch great guy, or cause of some other reason?

I'm just saying that just cause he's not a scrooge like Donald Sterling doesn't mean he's a saint either.

But I am all about fans loving owners that love them back, like maybe Cuban.  Or maybe the Maloof brothers. 

[Donoghus]

Kraft almost single-handedly saved the Patriots in New England and turned a laughing-stock franchise into possibly the model NFL franchise.  I mean this team couldn't sell out home games as recently as 1992, 1993.  Pats had quite a few games blacked out and people ridiculed the team.  Look at how far this organization has come in less than 20 years.

It's a no-brainer to me.

[Eja117]

Kraft almost single-handedly saved the Patriots in New England and turned a laughing-stock franchise into possibly the model NFL franchise.  I mean this team couldn't sell out home games as recently as 1992, 1993.  Pats had quite a few games blacked out and people ridiculed the team.  Look at how far this organization has come in less than 20 years.

It's a no-brainer to me.

The only other situation like that I can remember off the top of my head is Mark Cuban. Maybe the Seahawks and Blazers sorta.

Sometimes I'm impressed with the small market teams that still compete at the highest levels.

[nickagneta]

I totally see the arguments for Kraft, it's just that I think for one thing what nick is giving him credit for is something they should all do, but just don't.

In an era where just about no NBA team owns their own arena and a large majority of baseball and football stadiums are being subsidized by taxpayers, that Kraft was told by the state of Massachusetts that he was not going to get any subsidies and he still went out and spent some $300+ million of his own money to build Gillette Stadium, a state of the art football facility that is one of the best parks in the NFL and developed all that land down in Foxborough easily makes him the best owner of the bunch.

He didn't have to stay or build a new stadium or build a fabulous facility. But he did, which to me separates him from the rest.

I see what you are saying nick, it's just that to me the hero in that scenario was the state of MA, not him.

I definitely wish other owners would follow his example.

I'm a little curious if Kraft thought he could make more money moving the team if he would. I kinda think since he was a fan he wouldn't.

Also I think when you have guys with tons and tons of money it's easier to do what he did, whereas teams with no money have to sell or move.  hard to say

It definitely sets him apart and makes me like him that he invested in a product he owns and believes in. But as a typical spoiled fan I sorta felt like he owed that. Didn't we support him tremendously? In a manner of speaking we paid for that stadium, not him.

I mean would you try to move the team if you were the owner? or would you be satisfied with only making the money Kraft makes off the Pats? And is that cause you're a hero and a top notch great guy, or cause of some other reason?

I'm just saying that just cause he's not a scrooge like Donald Sterling doesn't mean he's a saint either.

But I am all about fans loving owners that love them back, like maybe Cuban.  Or maybe the Maloof brothers. 

It's pretty clear you have decided to be in an antagonistic mood today and say stuff just to say stuff whether it makes sense or not.

You feel the Maloofs and Cuban loves their fans better than kraft loves his fans? The Maloofs? The cheap terds who won't build a new arena in Sacramento unless the state and city pays for it and hence the Kings are the leading candidate for moving to another city in the NBA. The Maloofs? Are you kidding me?

Cuban? The idiot who constantly makes sure he promotes himself first and foremost and his team second. That guy loves his fans more than Kraft loves Patriots fans?

Please, eja. Give us a break. Stop playing the devil's advocate just for the sake of being difficult today. You're saying a lot of stuff that makes no sense.

[Eja117]

I totally see the arguments for Kraft, it's just that I think for one thing what nick is giving him credit for is something they should all do, but just don't.

In an era where just about no NBA team owns their own arena and a large majority of baseball and football stadiums are being subsidized by taxpayers, that Kraft was told by the state of Massachusetts that he was not going to get any subsidies and he still went out and spent some $300+ million of his own money to build Gillette Stadium, a state of the art football facility that is one of the best parks in the NFL and developed all that land down in Foxborough easily makes him the best owner of the bunch.

He didn't have to stay or build a new stadium or build a fabulous facility. But he did, which to me separates him from the rest.

I see what you are saying nick, it's just that to me the hero in that scenario was the state of MA, not him.

I definitely wish other owners would follow his example.

I'm a little curious if Kraft thought he could make more money moving the team if he would. I kinda think since he was a fan he wouldn't.

Also I think when you have guys with tons and tons of money it's easier to do what he did, whereas teams with no money have to sell or move.  hard to say

It definitely sets him apart and makes me like him that he invested in a product he owns and believes in. But as a typical spoiled fan I sorta felt like he owed that. Didn't we support him tremendously? In a manner of speaking we paid for that stadium, not him.

I mean would you try to move the team if you were the owner? or would you be satisfied with only making the money Kraft makes off the Pats? And is that cause you're a hero and a top notch great guy, or cause of some other reason?

I'm just saying that just cause he's not a scrooge like Donald Sterling doesn't mean he's a saint either.

But I am all about fans loving owners that love them back, like maybe Cuban.  Or maybe the Maloof brothers. 

It's pretty clear you have decided to be in an antagonistic mood today and say stuff just to say stuff whether it makes sense or not.

You feel the Maloofs and Cuban loves their fans better than kraft loves his fans? The Maloofs? The cheap terds who won't build a new arena in Sacramento unless the state and city pays for it and hence the Kings are the leading candidate for moving to another city in the NBA. The Maloofs? Are you kidding me?

Cuban? The idiot who constantly makes sure he promotes himself first and foremost and his team second. That guy loves his fans more than Kraft loves Patriots fans?

Please, eja. Give us a break. Stop playing the devil's advocate just for the sake of being difficult today. You're saying a lot of stuff that makes no sense.

No no no.  Nooooo.  I see your point that Cuban can appear childish.

Noooo. 

I'm saying that it appears to me (at least at times) that those places have had good relationships with their owners and their owners appreciate their fans, a lot like Kraft.

Noooo. I definitely put Kraft in the top 5% of owners and agree with a lot of what Dons said about Kraft taking a laughing stock and making it one of the best teams around.

And I'm also not surprised that you took what I said and jumped to the worst conclusion rather than the best. I admit I wasn't overly careful to write in a way that would make everybody happy with every post. Something you never do nick.