Author Topic: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)  (Read 116115 times)

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Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2009, 12:33:54 AM »

Offline moiso

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And the whole "giving his all every time he steps on the court" thing has always been ridiculous.  Can you really give it your all on only one side of the court?  Tom Thibideau expends more energy on defense from the bench than Iverson ever has in real games.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2009, 12:37:52 AM »

Offline moiso

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And, dont give me any flak about his low shooting percentage either. How about a guy who has zero rings and may just have a little left in the tank. The guy could be the difference maker between a deep run in the playoffs and a title.

This is the type of comment that make it unfortunate that FJM closed its doors last November.

What you're intimating here is that the fact that Iverson may "want a ring" outweighs a certain thing he does that is tangibly detrimental to his team's performance - and thus, his (and his team's) chances to win said ring.

That's the thing about those "tangibles": While not as tell-all as baseball, they often give us a pretty reasonable idea of what a guy brings to the table.

-sw
No flak about a low shooting percentage and zero rings?  Did you ever think the two might be correlated?  If your leader in shot attempts shoots a low percentage, the chances are that you're going to be a bad team.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2009, 01:14:01 AM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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And, dont give me any flak about his low shooting percentage either. How about a guy who has zero rings and may just have a little left in the tank. The guy could be the difference maker between a deep run in the playoffs and a title.

This is the type of comment that make it unfortunate that FJM closed its doors last November.

What you're intimating here is that the fact that Iverson may "want a ring" outweighs a certain thing he does that is tangibly detrimental to his team's performance - and thus, his (and his team's) chances to win said ring.

That's the thing about those "tangibles": While not as tell-all as baseball, they often give us a pretty reasonable idea of what a guy brings to the table.

-sw
No flak about a low shooting percentage and zero rings?  Did you ever think the two might be correlated?  If your leader in shot attempts shoots a low percentage, the chances are that you're going to be a bad team.

That's another way to say what I was getting at.

-sw


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Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2009, 02:02:06 AM »

Offline greenwise

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I'd be very surprised if Boston showed any interest after the Marbury failure this summer. AI is done. We would give him 18 minutes and a ring, but he will never take that. Sad but true

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2009, 02:17:57 AM »

Offline blackdonnelly

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probably, but how incredibly sick would our 2nd unit be. I can see the rings... We'll I can see them anyways.  :o

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2009, 02:23:36 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Before Iverson could even be added the Celtics would have to do a deal where they move 2 or more bodies for less bodies to open up a roster spot. This team, in this current economic format, with an owner who was so hot to save cash he wanted to try to save money by mistakenly thinking he could suspend a player, would never release a player, paying him close to a million dollars and have to pay a full luxury tax dollar for dollar penalty as well, just so he could sign AI for another million and pay another million on top of that for lux tax purposes.

Now, top all that off with the fact that the C's were able to sign Iverson earlier and didn't. And why would Danny want to sign him now? It's not like there is some huge gaping hole in the back court that is responsible for major problems in winning games. Ray, Marquis, Eddie, Rondo and Hudson are doing an excellent job and there's no screaming need for someone like Iverson on the C's bench.

Plus he conceited, self centered, selfish, defensively inept, demanding, cancerous, combative, unresponsive to coaching, and attitudinal. Who the heck needs or wants him? He's a team buster of a player if ever there was one.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2009, 05:11:06 AM »

Offline Bahku

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First of all, let's get this out of the way: Allen Iverson is an amazingly talented athlete, and those who think or say otherwise are not being honest with themselves or anyone else. The reason I don't say "amazing basketball player" is because I believe very strongly that a great basketball player is great on every level ... not just athleticism, but also skills, knowledge of the game, offensive and defensive execution, and ability to communicate and interact with teammates and coaches, etc..

The reason I say Paul Pierce is the best "basketball player" in the NBA today, is because I feel he fills all these requirements better than anyone else. The reason I don't say this about players like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, is because I feel they come up short on some of these same requirements, and do not fit into the brackets of what I consider a "complete" player. Anyone who is more concerned with their own numbers than they are with the success of the team, is not a complete player, and never will be, so long as they keep that attitude.

I'm not about to call Iverson names and bash him for his personality quirks, because frankly, I don't know the man, and I'm not about to judge him that way ... there are enough people doing that already. But I have seen and read enough to come to the conclusion that for many reasons, he is to this point in his career, not a complete player, or the type of player that can be easily acclimated to a full "team" concept, or in Celtic terms, the concept of Ubuntu. He's most effective as a core player or catalyst - a player that a team is built around - with him as the primary facilitator and leader. That in itself, (before even considering other factors), is enough to disqualify him for this team.

We already have a core in Boston, and one of the strongest and least selfish cores to be put together in a long time. Is it realistic to think that a player like AI could be inserted into this system easily and fluidly, without upsetting the team-first balance that Doc and Danny and Tom have worked so hard to cultivate? I honestly don't think so, and it would take a lot of proof to the contrary to convince me otherwise. Everything that "The Answer" has done in the past, both on and off the court, has shown that he is, right or wrong, a "Me First" kind of guy ... not to the point of the selfishness I've seen from many others, but at least to the level where it seems highly unlikely that he could bend to the Ubuntu concept.

A confession: Allen Iverson used to be my favorite "Non-Celtic" basketball player, long before I realized there was much more to playing basketball than just skills and athleticism. I love to watch the guy play ... he brings a level of excitement and energy to the game that only a very few have ever shared, and despite his age, he can still play to that level, (albeit not to the level of his prime). He also didn't seem to gravitate toward fame and self-promotion in the same way players like Kobe and LeBron do, and I mean the whole Hollywood scene and associations with those kinds of cliques. Despite his troubles, he has tried to be a family-first guy, and I respected his efforts in that direction.

There were times, before KG and Ray, when I would have tried to embrace bringing him here to play in green ... not because he was a favorite player of mine, but because I leaned more to the side of him being the kind of player that could meld with others on a similar level, like Pierce, and at least share the core responsibilities and leadership. But everything I've seen or read or heard him say in the last few years, contradicts that process, and just screams that he would never be able to play with or come off the bench for guys who he feels are not on the same level as himself. The chemistry and team-play and selflessness that has been nourished and grown over the last couple of years in Boston, is completely dependent on the leadership and guidance of Paul and KG, and I don't think there's any way AI would be cool with deferring to them.

I could be totally wrong, and maybe I and many others are selling him and his ability to adapt short, but history and past behavior points in the opposite direction. Unfortunately the Celtics don't have the money or resources to make such a huge gamble, and sadly for AI, neither do most other teams. But the gamble would involve so much more than just financial considerations ... it would involve rolling the dice with our team chemistry and leadership, our "We not Me" philosophy, our defense-first play structure, our rotation and fluidity, and the very fabric of what holds this team together - what makes it the force in the NBA that it has become. Is that a gamble that we need to take? Is it a gamble that even makes sense at the present time? I, for one, don't think so.

It's not for me to judge Iverson on his personality and mistakes and social inadequacies ... I'll leave that up to others who feel the necessity to do so. But I do have my opinion on how he would or could fit into this Celtics line-up, and whether or not it's worth taking the gamble. Everything I know about him and basketball and the makeup of this team, says a loud and resounding: "No". There was a time when I would have argued to the contrary, but with this team and the success it's had and the direction it's going in, that time has long passed. Like I said, he's an amazing athlete, and he's given more to the game than most people want to admit now ... or give him credit for. But whatever the considerations, and despite his talents, I don't want to see him in a Celtics uniform.

From what I know of this team and what he could bring to it, the minuses far outweigh the pluses ... and it's a huge gamble that we just don't need to take.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 06:55:16 AM by Bahku »
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Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2009, 06:16:14 AM »

Offline greenhead85

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Great talent and skills - unmatched to most point guards his size. AI will come in cheap and willing to come from the bench.

Moore said Iverson would even agree to come off the bench if he signs with a championship-caliber team.

“It doesn’t have to be a starting role if it’s the right situation, right circumstances,” Moore said.(http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkulVCAllgbIwM5DWdkc1PG8vLYF?slug=mc-iverson111609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

At least, he is one player coming from the bench who can make things happen, a game-changer if you may. Doc will take care of him once he goes beyond what is expected by the team.

Lastly, AI cannot be likened to Marbury because the latter never played the game for more than one year when he got in our roster. AI is a scorer and will keep on pushing the ball as long as he is on the floor. An attitude that Rondo, Marbury, and House lack.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 06:23:48 AM by greenhead85 »

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2009, 06:50:54 AM »

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I'm not gonna lie, I don't know if it would work out, but I want him here. I don't think he would have as big a problem coming off the bench for a good, winning team.
I think Iverson would have a problem being a 15-20 minute a night backup.

I think Iverson would be happy to play off the bench on a winning team if he was given a Jason Terry/Manu Ginobili/Ben Gordon role off the bench and allowed to play 30+ minutes a night? A player on the floor at the end of games. Big moments. A go-to player.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2009, 07:44:09 AM »

Offline wbones1

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 I have seen Iverson play since college. I have been a GT fan since 1980. He is a shoot first point guard. We do not need a guy, who will put up 35 shots to get 45 points. He would not only ruin team chemistry, but the offense as well. He is not the type of player to buy into team first. He didn't do it in college. His actions in the pro game say he will not now!!!!
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Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2009, 09:07:06 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Didn't AI sign with a team where it was made clear he would come off the bench?



How did that work out? 

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2009, 09:10:09 AM »

Offline moiso

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I just read that AI fully intends to play this year.  He's making a total joke out of the NBA.  He's quit two teams in 6 months.  I can't remember anything like that before.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2009, 09:12:35 AM »

Offline JPMmiles

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I'm looking for either a "dislike" button or a way to take away a Tommy Point from the original poster. 

Does anyone know of a way to do either?

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2009, 09:13:53 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I'm looking for either a "dislike" button or a way to take away a Tommy Point from the original poster. 

Does anyone know of a way to do either?
Give a TP to everyone else.  That way, it looks like he lost a point vs. everyone else.

Re: "We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »

Offline MrTripleDouble10

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I think the title says it all.  But just to be clear:  In no way shape or form should any Celtics fan WANT this guy on the C's.