Looks Like Our Biased Referee Friends Are Back!

[GKC]

There was also this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T28v5ADwYcU

Now you can say whatever you want about the ref trying to diffuse the situation, but as D'Antoni points out later..you are NOT allowed to do that.

(That being said, a tall ref bear hugging a tiny man like Nate Robinson is kind of funny)

[CoachBo]

I wonder if Dick Bavetta gets to take his crypt on the road in this new deal?

[Bahku]

I wonder if Dick Bavetta gets to take his crypt on the road in this new deal?

LOL! I have always loved Dick Bavetta, but I'm sorry ... the guy has lost it ... seriously. Time to hang up the whistle, Dick ... while you still blow. (TP)

[crownsy]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

[GKC]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

1. Look at the video. If this was one of our games, and that was a regular ref, we'd be going apeEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..
2. The foul rate has been ridiculous. The average FT compared to games, and preseason games, have been a huge spike. And nobody is saying it's because "at least they are calling everything"
3. The large number of technicals and ref fines due to arguing calls, or the mishap with the Maccabi Tel-Aviv coach has not been good. You rarely see this in the pre-season.

I think if you listen to any coach, players, or even the writers out there, none agree that the refs have been great in the small sample size that they've had. Preseason games should not last over 3 hours (which many have). I understand that there is a lot of hatred for the previous batch of refs. I don't like them either. But these new refs have been pretty terrible.

[crownsy]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

1. Look at the video. If this was one of our games, and that was a regular ref, we'd be going ape****.
2. The foul rate has been ridiculous. The average FT compared to games, and preseason games, have been a huge spike. And nobody is saying it's because "at least they are calling everything"
3. The large number of technicals and ref fines due to arguing calls, or the mishap with the Maccabi Tel-Aviv coach has not been good. You rarely see this in the pre-season.

I think if you listen to any coach, players, or even the writers out there, none agree that the refs have been great in the small sample size that they've had. Preseason games should not last over 3 hours (which many have). I understand that there is a lot of hatred for the previous batch of refs. I don't like them either. But these new refs have been pretty terrible.

1. has nothing to do with what i posted, and is a complete straw man argument. Of course we would. We went nuts when atlanta got to play 6-5 against us. your point?

2. the foul rate has been high because they are calling the rule book as printed.

 The regular refs allow a degree of contact that is against the rules (and thank goodness for that, because otherwise the game would be non-physical)

but that actually hurts your argument that the replacement refs called a bad game. what they actually did was call a game which was "to tight" for the average nba fans taste, including mine.

3. why exactly does the fact that the coach in that instance played the part of a spoiled brat and refused to leave the court in good order the replacement refs fault? what should they have done, tased him? beat him up?

another straw man argument.


I welcome the "real" refs back, but to act as if the scab refs did some sort of insulting or awful job is disingenuous, and flat out wrong.

[GKC]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

1. Look at the video. If this was one of our games, and that was a regular ref, we'd be going ape****.
2. The foul rate has been ridiculous. The average FT compared to games, and preseason games, have been a huge spike. And nobody is saying it's because "at least they are calling everything"
3. The large number of technicals and ref fines due to arguing calls, or the mishap with the Maccabi Tel-Aviv coach has not been good. You rarely see this in the pre-season.

I think if you listen to any coach, players, or even the writers out there, none agree that the refs have been great in the small sample size that they've had. Preseason games should not last over 3 hours (which many have). I understand that there is a lot of hatred for the previous batch of refs. I don't like them either. But these new refs have been pretty terrible.

1. has nothing to do with what i posted, and is a complete straw man argument. Of course we would. We went nuts when atlanta got to play 6-5 against us. your point?

2. the foul rate has been high because they are calling the rule book as printed.

 The regular refs allow a degree of contact that is against the rules (and thank goodness for that, because otherwise the game would be non-physical)

but that actually hurts your argument that the replacement refs called a bad game. what they actually did was call a game which was "to tight" for the average nba fans taste, including mine.

3. why exactly does the fact that the coach in that instance played the part of a spoiled brat and refused to leave the court in good order the replacement refs fault? what should they have done, tased him? beat him up?

another straw man argument.


I welcome the "real" refs back, but to act as if the scab refs did some sort of insulting or awful job is disingenuous, and flat out wrong.

Actually, that is one of my points. The ref's do not know what kind of physical contact to let happen, which although "strict to the rulebook" (and they are actually instructed to have judgement calls on it) provide for a bad game.

What I am saying, is that everyone here seems to be ripping on the new refs, saying they would rather have the new refs for the entire season. I personally would not want 3+ hour games with 80 fouls totaled.

Side note: We were actually 6-5 against Portland. Also, are you on APDA by any chance? Good use of the term strawman.

[crownsy]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

1. Look at the video. If this was one of our games, and that was a regular ref, we'd be going ape****.
2. The foul rate has been ridiculous. The average FT compared to games, and preseason games, have been a huge spike. And nobody is saying it's because "at least they are calling everything"
3. The large number of technicals and ref fines due to arguing calls, or the mishap with the Maccabi Tel-Aviv coach has not been good. You rarely see this in the pre-season.

I think if you listen to any coach, players, or even the writers out there, none agree that the refs have been great in the small sample size that they've had. Preseason games should not last over 3 hours (which many have). I understand that there is a lot of hatred for the previous batch of refs. I don't like them either. But these new refs have been pretty terrible.

1. has nothing to do with what i posted, and is a complete straw man argument. Of course we would. We went nuts when atlanta got to play 6-5 against us. your point?

2. the foul rate has been high because they are calling the rule book as printed.

 The regular refs allow a degree of contact that is against the rules (and thank goodness for that, because otherwise the game would be non-physical)

but that actually hurts your argument that the replacement refs called a bad game. what they actually did was call a game which was "to tight" for the average nba fans taste, including mine.

3. why exactly does the fact that the coach in that instance played the part of a spoiled brat and refused to leave the court in good order the replacement refs fault? what should they have done, tased him? beat him up?

another straw man argument.


I welcome the "real" refs back, but to act as if the scab refs did some sort of insulting or awful job is disingenuous, and flat out wrong.

Actually, that is one of my points. The ref's do not know what kind of physical contact to let happen, which although "strict to the rulebook" (and they are actually instructed to have judgement calls on it) provide for a bad game.

What I am saying, is that everyone here seems to be ripping on the new refs, saying they would rather have the new refs for the entire season. I personally would not want 3+ hour games with 80 fouls totaled.

Side note: We were actually 6-5 against Portland. Also, are you on APDA by any chance? Good use of the term strawman.

Nah, just a 1L, but that term has been fighting it's way into my vocabulary 

And yea, i don't mean to sound as If im one of those that think the replacment refs were some sort of awesome alternative to the "noraml" refs, just that they really didn't do an awful job.

I thought they were actually pretty good, the problem as me and you have agreed on, is that when you call the NBA game strictly by the book, it's boring, and inhibits free flowing and physical play.

It's much the same as if the NFL ref's suddenly started calling holding every time they could, regardless of the context. No offense would ever be able to function if they got extremely tricky tack on that and called it by the book, every time, every play.

I still wouldn't mind the NBA sliding some of the best replacement refs in for the worst regular ref's, even though that will never happen

[GKC]

all I know is that during the preseason games, I never once found myself thinking about how bad a call was or wondering if a group of refs were biased.

Your kidding right? I saw the Detroit game where they reversed a 2pt foul to a 3pt foul almost a minute later, and the player had to go back to shoot another free-throw.

It was then LATER corrected because Tayshaun Prince informed the ref he could not do that...

you brought this up before, and i don't see how it's relevant to prove that the replacement officials didn't know how to call a game.

off the top of my head and against the celtics personally, the "real" refs:

1. Allowed a two point field goal to count when one team had 6 men on the court, and 3-5 seconds elapsed where our players were pointing out the 6th "illegal" man

2. called a two pointer a three, then reversed that call 3 quarters later and changed the score after replay review.

3. We're unaware of the total number of team fouls and awarded a player two FT's on the fourth team foul for a reach in.

so what, pray tell, does your one off quoted mistake prove? that ref's aren't perfect?

No foolin'?

1. Look at the video. If this was one of our games, and that was a regular ref, we'd be going ape****.
2. The foul rate has been ridiculous. The average FT compared to games, and preseason games, have been a huge spike. And nobody is saying it's because "at least they are calling everything"
3. The large number of technicals and ref fines due to arguing calls, or the mishap with the Maccabi Tel-Aviv coach has not been good. You rarely see this in the pre-season.

I think if you listen to any coach, players, or even the writers out there, none agree that the refs have been great in the small sample size that they've had. Preseason games should not last over 3 hours (which many have). I understand that there is a lot of hatred for the previous batch of refs. I don't like them either. But these new refs have been pretty terrible.

1. has nothing to do with what i posted, and is a complete straw man argument. Of course we would. We went nuts when atlanta got to play 6-5 against us. your point?

2. the foul rate has been high because they are calling the rule book as printed.

 The regular refs allow a degree of contact that is against the rules (and thank goodness for that, because otherwise the game would be non-physical)

but that actually hurts your argument that the replacement refs called a bad game. what they actually did was call a game which was "to tight" for the average nba fans taste, including mine.

3. why exactly does the fact that the coach in that instance played the part of a spoiled brat and refused to leave the court in good order the replacement refs fault? what should they have done, tased him? beat him up?

another straw man argument.


I welcome the "real" refs back, but to act as if the scab refs did some sort of insulting or awful job is disingenuous, and flat out wrong.

Actually, that is one of my points. The ref's do not know what kind of physical contact to let happen, which although "strict to the rulebook" (and they are actually instructed to have judgement calls on it) provide for a bad game.

What I am saying, is that everyone here seems to be ripping on the new refs, saying they would rather have the new refs for the entire season. I personally would not want 3+ hour games with 80 fouls totaled.

Side note: We were actually 6-5 against Portland. Also, are you on APDA by any chance? Good use of the term strawman.

Nah, just a 1L, but that term has been fighting it's way into my vocabulary 

And yea, i don't mean to sound as If im one of those that think the replacment refs were some sort of awesome alternative to the "noraml" refs, just that they really didn't do an awful job.

I thought they were actually pretty good, the problem as me and you have agreed on, is that when you call the NBA game strictly by the book, it's boring, and inhibits free flowing and physical play.

It's much the same as if the NFL ref's suddenly started calling holding every time they could, regardless of the context. No offense would ever be able to function if they got extremely tricky tack on that and called it by the book, every time, every play.

I still wouldn't mind the NBA sliding some of the best replacement refs in for the worst regular ref's, even though that will never happen

I would not like the replacement refs in the NBA for a season. I am in the school of thought though that Bill Simmons and Mark Cuban believe that there should be a referee academy allows NCAA, WNBA, DLeague or even high school refs to train and become a certified NBA ref. That way we will have better turnover in terms of getting younger new refs. Forcing replacement refs might be tough, but if you had those refs be trained, and possibly work on low profile games such as the pre-season or all-star games, it would be great

[CelticG1]

One of my biggest issues with the regular refs is the super-star treatment. I actually thought that the "biased" part of this thread title was referring to the refs bias towards superstar calls and treatment. I thought that the replacement ref's would stop this somewhat which would have been nice. You know so we don't have to see Lebron or dwade get to the line everytime they make a movement in the direction of the basket. Or if a rookie takes a charge on a superstar and it's an automatic blocking foul 10 out of 10 times on the rookie.

It would very interesting to watch a game where there weren't veteran or superstar calls all the time. What do you guys think? Would you be p---ed if Pierce wasn't getting a veteran call or would you rather the game be called completely straight? I'm sure the superstars are pumped to get their refs back

[Bahku]

One of my biggest issues with the regular refs is the super-star treatment. I actually thought that the "biased" part of this thread title was referring to the refs bias towards superstar calls and treatment. I thought that the replacement ref's would stop this somewhat which would have been nice. You know so we don't have to see Lebron or dwade get to the line everytime they make a movement in the direction of the basket. Or if a rookie takes a charge on a superstar and it's an automatic blocking foul 10 out of 10 times on the rookie.

It would very interesting to watch a game where there weren't veteran or superstar calls all the time. What do you guys think? Would you be ****ed if Pierce wasn't getting a veteran call or would you rather the game be called completely straight? I'm sure the superstars are pumped to get their refs back

I would love for a game to be called completely straight, but I honestly don't think it's possible ... too much of the "human" element involved. Seriously, all I look for in officiating is BALANCE. If you call it a certain way on ONE end of the floor, then call it that way at the OTHER end, too. When there are games where one team has taken 35 free-throws and the other 9, there's something very wrong. I don't even mind that much if there are a few bad calls ... it happens, they make mistakes, or they see things differently than I do sitting at home, as long as they make similar judgements at both ends. I don't expect perfection, and I don't expect them to see it the same way that I do ... I just expect BALANCE ... or a consistent attempt at it.

[CelticG1]

One of my biggest issues with the regular refs is the super-star treatment. I actually thought that the "biased" part of this thread title was referring to the refs bias towards superstar calls and treatment. I thought that the replacement ref's would stop this somewhat which would have been nice. You know so we don't have to see Lebron or dwade get to the line everytime they make a movement in the direction of the basket. Or if a rookie takes a charge on a superstar and it's an automatic blocking foul 10 out of 10 times on the rookie.

It would very interesting to watch a game where there weren't veteran or superstar calls all the time. What do you guys think? Would you be ****ed if Pierce wasn't getting a veteran call or would you rather the game be called completely straight? I'm sure the superstars are pumped to get their refs back

I would love for a game to be called completely straight, but I honestly don't think it's possible ... too much of the "human" element involved. Seriously, all I look for in officiating is BALANCE. If you call it a certain way on ONE end of the floor, then call it that way at the OTHER end, too. When there are games where one team has taken 35 free-throws and the other 9, there's something very wrong. I don't even mind that much if there are a few bad calls ... it happens, they make mistakes, or they see things differently than I do sitting at home, as long as they make similar judgements at both ends. I don't expect perfection, and I don't expect them to see it the same way that I do ... I just expect BALANCE ... or a consistent attempt at it.

YEah i agree that the game can't be called "completely Straight" but I think superstar type calls are a little ridiculous. It's got to the point where fans of teams will get upset if a ref doesn't favor a star of their team. For example I think fans of the celtics get upset when Pierce seems to not get as many "superstar" calls as other stars like Lebron and Dwade. I'm sure Atlanta fans feel like Joe Johnson doesn't get those star calls as well. I find it funny that there is even a such term as "super star calls". I feel like some people think that stars or veterans should get the benefit of the doubt for the most part and this just seems wrong to me.

[Rondo_is_better]

Every ref is out to get the Celtics. Its a conspiracy--they're like bulls who don't like the color green.

Kenny Mauer was abused by a shamrock.

This explains everything.




And I'm sorry this post is no longer relevant to the thread.

But the thread title made me think this.

[CoachBo]

I wonder if Dick Bavetta gets to take his crypt on the road in this new deal?

LOL! I have always loved Dick Bavetta, but I'm sorry ... the guy has lost it ... seriously. Time to hang up the whistle, Dick ... while you still blow. (TP)

He was a great official - when Bird was playing.

Now, he just looks ... well, dead.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Sad news.  For me I have 3 major issues with the old refs:

1)  Superstar treatment
2)  Many of them try to "manage" a game, versus just calling it how it is on each play.
3)  Some of them are downright atrocious and the league has not published metrics for their performances, nor do they conduct additional training or correction.

I didn't have much of an issue with what the ref did in the Nate Robinson situation.  I can however see why the league would have a policy against that.