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Author Topic: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out  (Read 5688 times)

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Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« on: September 08, 2009, 06:15:50 PM »

Offline blceltsfan

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I was thinking about playing time and the lead story of the day, considering cutting back the "old guys" time and then who plays in the rotation. Considering the play of Sheed (not your low post offensive guy nor defensive muscle in the paint, I think Williams may very well get 10 minutes there. Sheed will get his minutes as he'll play more of the PF game like KG, away from the basket on offense and roamer on defense.Scal gets some time there too, so I started wondering, "is BBD the odd guy out here?"
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on how you think the rotation will go.

      2008-09        2009-10
Perkins    30      30 Williams 10   Sheed/BB 8 =48
RA      36      30      House   15   Daniels/Giddens   3=48
PP      37      30      Daniels   12   Scal/Walker6=48
KG      31      30      Sheed   18   =48 Scal?
RR      33      35      Daniels/House 13   =48
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:24:37 PM by blceltsfan »
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 06:48:11 PM »

Offline ForexPirate

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depending on match  ups, doc may experiment with kg at sf to spell pierce considering we have good depth at the 4 and 5.  BBD may not be out of the line-up in that case.  Certainly we know that Daniels is the primary pg back-up not not necessarily pierce's back-up though he could play the part as well, again depending on match-ups.  Doc will find BBD playing time.

we may see line-ups like this
daniels, house, kg, bbd, sheed off the bench
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 07:07:25 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I would like to see a Perk/Sheed or Perk/BBD combo and look how well either works out.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 07:27:12 PM »

Offline Jon

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Well, that's pretty much it; however, I don't see even Shelden Williams seeing consistent minutes.  Honestly, how many really dominant centers are there in the league?  I'm not sure there are really any beyond Dwight Howard.  Plus, KG, though listed at 6-11, is probably 7-1 and is a threat to block shots.  Thus, the need to pair him with a center isn't that great.  While Williams or BBD may sneak some time in the regular season, I expect both of them to be glued to the bench come playoff time and justly so.  There's no reason why Perk, KG, and Wallace can't handle all 96 minutes at the 4/5 spots.  That's only 32 mpg each.  BBD or Williams should only sniff the floor in the playoffs if there's foul trouble. 

Still, it's a nice luxury to have. 
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 07:31:48 PM »

Offline billysan

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I hope we dont see it. In the early season Doc may give Sheed some extra run to make sure he gets comfy with the fellas. I think that by Christmas, the minutes will be about Perk 30, KG 32, Sheed 18 and BBD 16. Scal and Williams should only see the floor in blowouts and KG/Sheed/Perk should all sit. Period. BBD is the one who gets the PT if Perk is in foul trouble, not Sheed. If Doc plays Sheed and KG any more than that he will have the same tired and broken down old legs we had last year by Valentines day.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 07:54:32 PM »

Offline Jon

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Quote from: billysan on September 08, 2009, 07:31:48 PM
I hope we dont see it. In the early season Doc may give Sheed some extra run to make sure he gets comfy with the fellas. I think that by Christmas, the minutes will be about Perk 30, KG 32, Sheed 18 and BBD 16. Scal and Williams should only see the floor in blowouts and KG/Sheed/Perk should all sit. Period. BBD is the one who gets the PT if Perk is in foul trouble, not Sheed. If Doc plays Sheed and KG any more than that he will have the same tired and broken down old legs we had last year by Valentines day.

Well, I think 18 mpg for Sheed is probably low at any point.  We are talking about a guy who has averaged better than 32 mpg last year.  Asking him to come off the bench is asking a lot already.  Asking him to play nearly half as many minutes as he did last year for even part of the season is asking too much. 

Plus, is there really any tangible evidence to suggest that playing him 18 mpg rather than 30 is really going to make him any better come playoff time?

I think the better thing to do is for Doc to be a little less cautious with leads.  Too often, in my opinion, he leaves the starters in too long in blow outs.  This is a good way to keep the starters minutes in the low 30s, while still allowing them to play more in close games. 

I think a more realistic average for Sheed is probably around the 25 mpg mark, with him playing a bit more in big games. 

Overall though, I don't think there's any reason to go beyond Sheed come playoff time at the 4/5 unless there's an injury or foul trouble. 
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 07:58:12 PM »

Offline liam

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If Baby loses enough weight he could see some time as a big small forward. It's nice to have a problem of too many players not enough time. we had it the other way last year.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 08:21:37 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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Injuries will happen, and older players like Garnett and Sheed need more rest.  BBD will get his minutes, especially if he continues to play well.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 08:27:20 PM »

Offline billysan

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Quote from: Jon on September 08, 2009, 07:54:32 PM
Quote from: billysan on September 08, 2009, 07:31:48 PM
I hope we dont see it. In the early season Doc may give Sheed some extra run to make sure he gets comfy with the fellas. I think that by Christmas, the minutes will be about Perk 30, KG 32, Sheed 18 and BBD 16. Scal and Williams should only see the floor in blowouts and KG/Sheed/Perk should all sit. Period. BBD is the one who gets the PT if Perk is in foul trouble, not Sheed. If Doc plays Sheed and KG any more than that he will have the same tired and broken down old legs we had last year by Valentines day.

Well, I think 18 mpg for Sheed is probably low at any point.  We are talking about a guy who has averaged better than 32 mpg last year.  Asking him to come off the bench is asking a lot already.  Asking him to play nearly half as many minutes as he did last year for even part of the season is asking too much. 

Plus, is there really any tangible evidence to suggest that playing him 18 mpg rather than 30 is really going to make him any better come playoff time?

I think the better thing to do is for Doc to be a little less cautious with leads.  Too often, in my opinion, he leaves the starters in too long in blow outs.  This is a good way to keep the starters minutes in the low 30s, while still allowing them to play more in close games. 

I think a more realistic average for Sheed is probably around the 25 mpg mark, with him playing a bit more in big games. 

Overall though, I don't think there's any reason to go beyond Sheed come playoff time at the 4/5 unless there's an injury or foul trouble. 

You could be right, I just look at his age. He is a guy like KG that will play a lot of minutes if you let him. I just dont see any need to have him broken down this spring like KG was last year when we have BBD who has proven he is a capable 4/5.

I think there will be games where he is needed for 30mpg and many others where he will not be needed for that long. Same goes for KG. Why not play Davis and even Williams more minutes as long as we win?

I think we could see a similar situation for Paul Pierce and Ray Allen very soon with the tired legs in Februaury. Maybe I am just too conservative or worry wart.



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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 08:27:55 PM »

Offline Cman

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Quote from: Brickowski on September 08, 2009, 08:21:37 PM
Injuries will happen, and older players like Garnett and Sheed need more rest.  BBD will get his minutes, especially if he continues to play well.

yeah.  I don't think we need to worry about PT.  I mean, KG hasn't even played a game yet, so we don't know how well he will come back from his injury and offseason surgery (same goes for Perk, and yes I am knocking on wood in both cases).

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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 08:47:05 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I don't think Williams will get much burn. Perkins/KG/Sheed/BBD will be our four man big rotation, with only spot minutes for whichever 5th F/C is active. At least to start the season.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 09:48:28 PM »

Offline 2short

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Quote from: liam on September 08, 2009, 07:58:12 PM
If Baby loses enough weight he could see some time as a big small forward. It's nice to have a problem of too many players not enough time. we had it the other way last year.

sorry but davis might get minutes at 3rd/4th string center but he will not (or doc should be tarred and feathered ) get ANY minutes at sf
I think Williams will have to earn any minutes he gets, Davis will get pf minutes and some c minutes against low post threats.  He honestly doesn't deserve big time with garnett & Sheed (and perk) in front of him.  I'd rather no time for kg at c and give some burn to davis there.
Docs job:
keep everyone, healthy & rested!
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 10:31:44 PM »

Offline Jon

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Quote from: 2short on September 08, 2009, 09:48:28 PM
Quote from: liam on September 08, 2009, 07:58:12 PM
If Baby loses enough weight he could see some time as a big small forward. It's nice to have a problem of too many players not enough time. we had it the other way last year.

sorry but davis might get minutes at 3rd/4th string center but he will not (or doc should be tarred and feathered ) get ANY minutes at sf
I think Williams will have to earn any minutes he gets, Davis will get pf minutes and some c minutes against low post threats.  He honestly doesn't deserve big time with garnett & Sheed (and perk) in front of him.  I'd rather no time for kg at c and give some burn to davis there.
Docs job:
keep everyone, healthy & rested!

I don't know.  Danny has hinted at it and so has BBD.  I don't necessarily see him as the true 3 out there, but I could see him in a frontline with KG and Wallace.  Who you call the "3" would be up to you. 

For those that don't like that idea, I agree that it's certainly not ideal.  However, if Doc's goal is to give the best players the most minutes possible, this might not be a terrible idea.  Think about it this way, for every minute that a KG/BBD/Sheed lineup is in, it's one minute that TA isn't playing. 
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 10:35:57 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: Jon on September 08, 2009, 10:31:44 PM
Quote from: 2short on September 08, 2009, 09:48:28 PM
Quote from: liam on September 08, 2009, 07:58:12 PM
If Baby loses enough weight he could see some time as a big small forward. It's nice to have a problem of too many players not enough time. we had it the other way last year.

sorry but davis might get minutes at 3rd/4th string center but he will not (or doc should be tarred and feathered ) get ANY minutes at sf
I think Williams will have to earn any minutes he gets, Davis will get pf minutes and some c minutes against low post threats.  He honestly doesn't deserve big time with garnett & Sheed (and perk) in front of him.  I'd rather no time for kg at c and give some burn to davis there.
Docs job:
keep everyone, healthy & rested!

I don't know.  Danny has hinted at it and so has BBD.  I don't necessarily see him as the true 3 out there, but I could see him in a frontline with KG and Wallace.  Who you call the "3" would be up to you. 

For those that don't like that idea, I agree that it's certainly not ideal.  However, if Doc's goal is to give the best players the most minutes possible, this might not be a terrible idea.  Think about it this way, for every minute that a KG/BBD/Sheed lineup is in, it's one minute that TA isn't playing. 
I'm sorry any talk of having KG/BBD playing at the 3 is just nuts. We'd just be giving up easy fouls on BBD trying to guard a 3 on the perimeter. Rashard was torching him and he's a tweener 3/4, a more traditional 3 would be even worse for BBD.

KG's best position is the 4, we need to maximize his impact by playing him there. I think Sheed will end up being our backup C and BBD our backup 4. Once the playoffs hit BBD will be on the pine for most of the game though, Doc has shown he'll go to a 3 big rotation if he can.
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Re: Playing Time BBD Odd Man Out
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 11:15:41 PM »

Offline mgent

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Personally, I see it like this, and I don't know how it could be any other way.
Perk, Wallace - 30,18
Garnett, Davis, Wallace - 30,11,7

If we give Williams any of those minutes, it'd be hurting us more than helping.  We might see him get 5 or 10 minutes on nights, but never on a consistent basis (and probably in garbage time or during foul trouble).  I think Doc will give Scal minutes before Williams.  Just his experience with this team speaks enough.

Any talk of giving Davis, or Scal, or KG minutes at the 3 seems highly unlikely.
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