Leon Powe vs. Sheldon Williams

[the_Bird]

One thing that needs to be considered beyond statistics is the different ways Powe and Williams would fit on the Cs.  Powe is a short 4 while Williams is big enough to play the 5.  That means every second Powe would be on the court for Boston is a second that KG or Sheed or Baby would not be, while Williams works better as a sub for Perk.  You also have to consider their impact on team defense.  Powe is more of a hustler, but Williams is a legitimate shot blocker which will allow Doc to always have two shot-blocking bigs on the court when he wants.

Mike

Williams is generally considered a but undersized for the 5 spot.  He can play there, probably better than Powe, but it's not ideal.

Had we re-signed Powe instead, he easily could have played alongside 'Sheed.  'Sheed has played mostly the 5 in recent years, he's a [dang] good defender at that spot.  Powe would have still been redundant with BBD, though; I don't really want either playing a lot of minutes at the 5.

One other element of this "exchange"...  Powe wasn't a very good defender.  He took a lot of charges and showed a lot of hustle, but you could see that he didn't have the lateral quickness of Perk and KG (and maybe even BBD, or at least his footwork and positioning).  Seemed to be out of position a lot. 

If they're basically swapping Williams for Powe, that's swapping a guy with a lot of skill on the offensive end who's a weak link playing D for a guy with the opposite skillset.  Seems to be a renewed emphasis on D with the guys signed and the guys let go this offseason.

[Hoops]

I appreciate Leon's heart, guts, talent and perseverance. Unfortunately, I think his best days as an NBA player are over. Of course, he's the type of guy that will try (and might possibly succeed) at proving all the doubters wrong. But I can't think of a player (in any sport) who has had 3 major knee surgeries and performed at a higher level after the fact. I wouldn't be surprised if someday we see a player that looks a lot like the same old Leon on the surface, but if you watch closely, you'll find that he's just a tad slower, can't jump quite as high, and fails to make some of the plays that he used to be capable of. It's a real shame, a tragedy even. But for all the warm fuzzies we get when we think of the things Leon did for the Boston Celtics, Danny made the right decision to let him go.

Those things considered, Williams ought to be an upgrade (especially considering the Cliff Ray factor, as noted by others).

[MattD]

I don't think it's quite as simple as Powe versus Williams from a skill perspective.  What also must be factored in is that Williams will be available during the first half of the season where Powe wouldn't be.  This should enable KG (33 years old) and Rasheed (will be 35 years old) to rest a few extra minutes each game, which will hopefully lead to them being less worn come playoff time.  Similarly, the insurance of a healthy Williams gives Doc greater leeway in easing KG's minutes back up to the optimal level at the start of the season, and gives the team greater flexibility if any of our other bigs are injured in the first half of the season.

(And I write this as someone who bought a Powe jersey before the 2008 playoffs and wore it for every home game -- I love Powe and his game, and would have liked to see him back.  But I do understand why the team signed Williams.)

[BrickJames]

Statistical outperformance is the wrong metric.

Powe will be useful on the cavs because they need low post finesse scoring.

Shelden is better on the Celts than Powe because we won't need offense, and he is a far superior defensive player.

[xmuscularghandix]

One thing that needs to be considered beyond statistics is the different ways Powe and Williams would fit on the Cs.  Powe is a short 4 while Williams is big enough to play the 5.  That means every second Powe would be on the court for Boston is a second that KG or Sheed or Baby would not be, while Williams works better as a sub for Perk.  You also have to consider their impact on team defense.  Powe is more of a hustler, but Williams is a legitimate shot blocker which will allow Doc to always have two shot-blocking bigs on the court when he wants.

Mike

nice point.

[Who]

Leon Powe is the far superior defensive player, and the far superior offensive player, while being a comparable rebounder to Williams. He'll easily out-perform Williams.

[Roy Hobbs]

Leon Powe is the far superior defensive player, and the far superior offensive player, while being a comparable rebounder to Williams. He'll easily out-perform Williams.

I don't know.  Williams is a pretty good defender, from what I've seen and read.  Leon wasn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good, either.

You're right on the offense, though.

[Fafnir]

Leon Powe is the far superior defensive player, and the far superior offensive player, while being a comparable rebounder to Williams. He'll easily out-perform Williams.

I don't know.  Williams is a pretty good defender, from what I've seen and read.  Leon wasn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good, either.

You're right on the offense, though.

I'd have to agree. I don't think Leon is that good of a defender. He makes a great effort to take charges, but other areas of his defense were lacking at times.

I haven't sheen enough of Sheldon to comment on his overall defense. He was an awesome defender at Duke though. His better size shold allow him to defend taller players. I'd also imagine he's stronger than Powe.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Leon Powe is the far superior defensive player, and the far superior offensive player, while being a comparable rebounder to Williams. He'll easily out-perform Williams.

Far superior defensive player? Come on.

[BCelts]

A healthy Powe (which I doubt we would see this season) is better in my opinion



But a Williams and an unhealthy Powe, completely different story.

This is how I see it.  I think, while Williams has a chance to be better (it will be interesting to see how he responds to playing with the C's, and under Ray's tutelage), I would put my money on a healthy Powe being a better player.  But the chances of Powe being 100% at any time this year are pretty slim.

Yeah, I agree.  When healthy, the players are equal rebounders, Williams is a better defender, and Powe is a better and more efficient scorer.  With an injured Powe, though, I think you've got to go with Williams, if you're only concerned with one year.

I'm in this school of thought, especially with the advantage that Williams has defending/rebounding against 5s.  Powe is still a little undersized for the 5s.

[Who]

Williams has never really impressed me when I've seen him defensively.

Williams doesn't have the athleticism or mobility to fulfill the defensive promise he had coming out of college. He's too slow to defend many power forwards, leaving him as a 6-8 center who's clearly giving up a huge amount of size to opposing players.

He can be a situational defender at the four, defending PF's who lack mobility or offensive skills or like to hang around the rim, but as a full time player he'll get cut apart by more than half the starting PF's in this league. I think Williams is better off at the center position, but he's going to give up a lot at that spot too.

I'd rather have Powe's defense, I think he's a better defender against power forwards.

[2short]

First I love Leon, his work ethic, attitude and what he did for us.  As a coach he is a dream guy to have on your team.  I would have taken a healthy Leon over Davis!
Williams can play 2 posistions, Leon could work his butt off to be a good sub at pf and I'd say start for some nba teams but he's short.  I think from a mgt view its an easy choice, Williams and I mean easy.  leon has already come back from devastating injuries, the last one is tough.  I don't mean it in a mean way but with 'sheed here and Williams we won't miss him as far as court play.  I can't see davis' minutes as it is?
I hope Leon gets healthy and makes $$$$$$ because this man deserves it.  I think Williams could turn into a steal though.   If he gets minutes he could really produce nicely depending on how he can handle our very tricky defensive rotations.   I liked his game in college.  I think if Leon was 6'9" he'd be really really sought after, health is obviously a big thing and he DOES not have that on his side.  He'll get a standing ovation from me when he shows up at the garden regardless.

[snively]

Williams has never really impressed me when I've seen him defensively.

Williams doesn't have the athleticism or mobility to fulfill the defensive promise he had coming out of college. He's too slow to defend many power forwards, leaving him as a 6-8 center who's clearly giving up a huge amount of size to opposing players.

He can be a situational defender at the four, defending PF's who lack mobility or offensive skills or like to hang around the rim, but as a full time player he'll get cut apart by more than half the PF's in this league. I think Williams is better off at the center position, but he's going to give up a lot at that spot too.

I'd rather have Powe's defense, I think he's a better defender against power forwards.

I've seen Shelden play maybe once or twice, so I can't comment on his actual defensive abilities vs. the 4 and 5, but statistically he rates a bit better than Powe on D.  He steals, blocks and grabs defensive boards at a higher rate while fouling less.  Offensively of course, Powe eats his lunch in most categories, especially FT attempts and FG%.  When you factor in Powe's limited availablity this year and general health concerns, I think you can make a very solid case for the C's choosing Williams over Powe.

[Jon]

I think it's a poor question, because it doesn't judge value.  I think Baby is going to have a tough time finding minutes here, let alone Sheldon Williams.  While I don't see Leon getting a ton of run in the playoffs, with the fragile state of Big Z and Shaq, he could see some significant playing time this year.  Furthermore, in my book, he's likely the 4th big in Cleveland (when he's healthy), where Sheldon is clearly the 5th here. 

Of course all of this is by averages as Leon won't be back for a while. 

[dark_lord]

I just say good luck to Leon except for when we face him and good luck to Admiral Ackbar always since he has now joined the Dark Lord of the C's.

tp right there!