Trade Tony Allen for Mardy Collins

[Chris]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

[BudweiserCeltic]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

I say he's more of the classic case of a player that doesn't play that good because he's asked to play just about every role other than the one that is natural to him. And also the classic case of being injured, which was the case this year... he was having an overall solid year until his injuries came about.

Of TA's complaints, his injuries concerns are about the most valid I read here... but then they tend to ignore his injuries and how they impact his performance. Can't have it both ways.

[Chris]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

I say he's more of the classic case of a player that doesn't play that good because he's asked to play just about every role other than the one that is natural to him. And also the classic case of being injured, which was the case this year... he was having an overall solid year until his injuries came about.

Of TA's complaints, his injuries concerns are about the most valid I read here... but then they tend to ignore his injuries and how they impact his performance. Can't have it both ways.

To blame Tony's injuries for the constant lapses in concentration is ridiculous.

I do agree that he has been miscast though.  He simply is not a guy who can play off the ball, but he is not good enough to play on the ball for a championship team.  He had no role on this team.

[ssspence]

i think this is pretty straightforward --

who would be more valuable to the clippers? allen.

who would be more valuable to the celtics? collins.

trades don't get more simple.

[BudweiserCeltic]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

I say he's more of the classic case of a player that doesn't play that good because he's asked to play just about every role other than the one that is natural to him. And also the classic case of being injured, which was the case this year... he was having an overall solid year until his injuries came about.

Of TA's complaints, his injuries concerns are about the most valid I read here... but then they tend to ignore his injuries and how they impact his performance. Can't have it both ways.

To blame Tony's injuries for the constant lapses in concentration is ridiculous.

I do agree that he has been miscast though.  He simply is not a guy who can play off the ball, but he is not good enough to play on the ball for a championship team.  He had no role on this team.

Other than I'm not blaming his lack on concentration on them, so my claim is not ridiculous. Injuries do cause rust though. Injuries have made him a less confident player (particularly in 2007-2008). Injuries affected his jumpshot, what little he had of it. Injuries affected the way he finished around the rim. Injuries afect mobility. Injuries affect his handle on the ball, what little he had on it. He did have a surgery in season for his thumb, and an ankle surgery after the playoffs.

Again, he was having a solid year until his injuries.

[RAcker]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

I agree. I think we'll be lucky to get a burning sack of excrement at this point.

[mgent]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

I say he's more of the classic case of a player that doesn't play that good because he's asked to play just about every role other than the one that is natural to him. And also the classic case of being injured, which was the case this year... he was having an overall solid year until his injuries came about.

Of TA's complaints, his injuries concerns are about the most valid I read here... but then they tend to ignore his injuries and how they impact his performance. Can't have it both ways.

To blame Tony's injuries for the constant lapses in concentration is ridiculous.

I do agree that he has been miscast though.  He simply is not a guy who can play off the ball, but he is not good enough to play on the ball for a championship team.  He had no role on this team.

Other than I'm not blaming his lack on concentration on them, so my claim is not ridiculous. Injuries do cause rust though. Injuries have made him a less confident player (particularly in 2007-2008). Injuries affected his jumpshot, what little he had of it. Injuries affected the way he finished around the rim. Injuries afect mobility. Injuries affect his handle on the ball, what little he had on it. He did have a surgery in season for his thumb, and an ankle surgery after the playoffs.

Again, he was having a solid year until his injuries.

Plus, you can't ask a guy to sit on the bench all game and then come out in the 4th quarter and expect him to be amazing.
I remember a couple times when Eddie has put up airballs right off the bench.
You also gotta factor in how long it takes to actually recover from an ACL and MCL tear.  He returned in 08 after only 9 months and was not at full strength.  Then when he was finally coming back to form, he had another injury.
I just can't follow the people who believe the reason he had two bad seasons was not injuries, it was his IQ suddenly dropping.

[crownsy]

Don't let the hate make you blind. Tony is a better player and a more productive player than Mardy Collins. Upgrade not downgrade.

that's beside the point.

his point was that tony is almost untradeable right now.

for pete's sake, the man is an expiring contract that should be easy to put into a S & T and the word is indy won't touch him, and neither will any of the other 28 teams that the celtics have pretty much offered to give him away to in a three way.

[crownsy]

tony is deadweight...his off the court problems and his lack of game have made him worth zero

Complete exaggeration. This is only particularly true with the Pacers. I'm sure that there are plenty of teams that would have no problem trading players for some cap relief and have no problem with having TA and paying him 2.5 million this year and be done with it.

Currently, TA's biggest asset is his expiring contract, and the Pacers are not getting cap relief from him (in fact, by signing and trading Daniels they'll increase their payroll)... so they have little incentive in wanting TA, especially with his off-court problems.

Exactly.  Tony's value is in saving other teams money.  If he is not used for that, then it is minimal.

Other than he's a useful player. His "bad" play has been very overstated in this board. Thing is, he's not a player people are simply going to make moves for just to have him, his good contract is his biggest value, and he should be able to contribute to any team he goes to that wants him to.

And here's some food for thought for those that like to call him "Turnover Tony"... in our last two playoff runs, he has played a total of 120 minutes and only turned the ball over twice total; shooting 54.17% from the floor.

Eh.  I think he could be a very valuable player on a bad team, but I don't think he will help out a contending team much at all.  

He is a classic case of a guy who does not play well when he is asked to play a defined role.  However, when you give him free reign, he can put up big numbers, even if they don't help you win a whole lot.  

But I have a feeling that his lack of success the last couple of years playing for Boston has soured teams on him substantially, to the point that even bad teams will be hesitant to take a chance on him, if they are not getting something else to entice them (like saving cash).

I say he's more of the classic case of a player that doesn't play that good because he's asked to play just about every role other than the one that is natural to him. And also the classic case of being injured, which was the case this year... he was having an overall solid year until his injuries came about.

Of TA's complaints, his injuries concerns are about the most valid I read here... but then they tend to ignore his injuries and how they impact his performance. Can't have it both ways.

To blame Tony's injuries for the constant lapses in concentration is ridiculous.

I do agree that he has been miscast though.  He simply is not a guy who can play off the ball, but he is not good enough to play on the ball for a championship team.  He had no role on this team.

Other than I'm not blaming his lack on concentration on them, so my claim is not ridiculous. Injuries do cause rust though. Injuries have made him a less confident player (particularly in 2007-2008). Injuries affected his jumpshot, what little he had of it. Injuries affected the way he finished around the rim. Injuries afect mobility. Injuries affect his handle on the ball, what little he had on it. He did have a surgery in season for his thumb, and an ankle surgery after the playoffs.

Again, he was having a solid year until his injuries.

Plus, you can't ask a guy to sit on the bench all game and then come out in the 4th quarter and expect him to be amazing.
I remember a couple times when Eddie has put up airballs right off the bench.
You also gotta factor in how long it takes to actually recover from an ACL and MCL tear.  He returned in 08 after only 9 months and was not at full strength.  Then when he was finally coming back to form, he had another injury.
I just can't follow the people who believe the reason he had two bad seasons was not injuries, it was his IQ suddenly dropping.

ya mabey when he's 35 or so he'll have this mythical comeback season we've all been waiting on since 2005 huh?

guys dead weight. if they can't get him gone in a S & T he should be very, very deep on the bench, and rarely see time.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Don't let the hate make you blind. Tony is a better player and a more productive player than Mardy Collins. Upgrade not downgrade.

that's beside the point.

his point was that tony is almost untradeable right now.

for pete's sake, the man is an expiring contract that should be easy to put into a S & T and the word is indy won't touch him, and neither will any of the other 28 teams that the celtics have pretty much offered to give him away to.

Already explained the S&T situation with the Pacers and why they might not be interested in TA. So, how many of those 28 teams do you actually know that the Celtics have tried to give TA away to, and more specifically what was asked in return?

One point that is being missed here is that if Ainge knows he can sign Daniels with the LLE, he doesn't have much incentive to just give TA away.  The other side of it that is not being considered is that since the Pacers don't want TA, who are they asking in return to be able to sign and trade Daniels to the desired contract level? And given that the Pacers have little incentive to adding payroll just to simply help Daniels and the Celtics...what's their price for helping?

[wdleehi]

Don't let the hate make you blind. Tony is a better player and a more productive player than Mardy Collins. Upgrade not downgrade.

that's beside the point.

his point was that tony is almost untradeable right now.

for pete's sake, the man is an expiring contract that should be easy to put into a S & T and the word is indy won't touch him, and neither will any of the other 28 teams that the celtics have pretty much offered to give him away to.

Already explained the S&T situation with the Pacers and why they might not be interested in TA. So, how many of those 28 teams do you actually know that the Celtics have tried to give TA away to, and more specifically what was asked in return?

One point that is being missed here is that if Ainge knows he can sign Daniels with the LLE, he doesn't have much incentive to just give TA away.  The other side of it that is not being considered is that since the Pacers don't want TA, who are they asking in return to be able to sign and trade Daniels to the desired contract level? And given that the Pacers have little incentive to adding payroll just to simply help Daniels and the Celtics...what's their price for helping?

He has little value in a sign and trade.

But he will have a lot of value in the salary dump trade.

[ssspence]

Don't let the hate make you blind. Tony is a better player and a more productive player than Mardy Collins. Upgrade not downgrade.

that's beside the point.

his point was that tony is almost untradeable right now.

for pete's sake, the man is an expiring contract that should be easy to put into a S & T and the word is indy won't touch him, and neither will any of the other 28 teams that the celtics have pretty much offered to give him away to.

Already explained the S&T situation with the Pacers and why they might not be interested in TA. So, how many of those 28 teams do you actually know that the Celtics have tried to give TA away to, and more specifically what was asked in return?

One point that is being missed here is that if Ainge knows he can sign Daniels with the LLE, he doesn't have much incentive to just give TA away.  The other side of it that is not being considered is that since the Pacers don't want TA, who are they asking in return to be able to sign and trade Daniels to the desired contract level? And given that the Pacers have little incentive to adding payroll just to simply help Daniels and the Celtics...what's their price for helping?

He has little value in a sign and trade.

But he will have a lot of value in the salary dump trade.

precisely -- thank you. in the case of the pacers it's asking them to take on salary. in the case of, say, trading him for nocioni or garcia is would be reducing salary for the kings.

in this case, it's basically a wash on money and years (one). tony's a poor fit for the Cs but could be valuble for a team looking to play more up-tempo and in need of a slasher and / or defender. i mean, this is mardy collins we're talking about -- not marquis daniels.

[ssspence]

addendum to this trade idea: i'd include ricky davis and jr giddens to get this done.

TA + Giddens for Collins + Davis. No, Ricky would not be a big part of the team and certainly could be dumped in a mid-season trade. But weight doesn't get much deader than TA these days and I'm not a Giddens believer.

i think this would increase the likelyhood of this deal from the Clips side.

[JSD]

The numbers not working aside, I don't see the Clippers taking on $700,000 in additional payroll for Tony Allen.

[ssspence]

The numbers not working aside, I don't see the Clippers taking on $700,000 in additional payroll for Tony Allen.

They just took on 2 Years of Telfair to get Craig Smith. And you send cash with Tony to get the deal done as you're saving that money on the tax anyway.

Meanwhile, the numbers do work when you make it the 4 player deal laid out above.