Is Portland/Utah Stupid??? Lamar Odom still available

[Mr October]

Wow, Odom is being wildly overrated in this thread.

Odom finally pulled it together (sort of) after a full career of not living up to his ability. Why would anybody trust him with any sort of big money offer? He's ridiculously unreliable and inconsistent, he's soft as grapes, and he doesn't work hard or care. We want Portland to go after him because it weakens the Lakers - but does it strengthen the Blazers as much as a tough, young, hard-working power forward would? No, it doesn't. Millsap is a very good player. And he works. Odom is a more talented player, who doesn't work and is older.

Portland doesn't (at least in their mind) have a 2 year championship window they're trying to hit - they're looking at having the best possible 5 to 10 year window. Odom doesn't help that. This is probably the last semi-big free agent they can add for the next half decade, since they'll have to give out long term deals to Roy and Aldridge next summer and possibly Oden after that. For a team whose recent history includes mail-in jobs and criminal behavior by the likes of Zach Randolph, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson and yes, Rasheed Wallace (not criminal behavior, but mail-in jobs for sure), they're not going to give that contract to a jerkoff like Odom. They want to wrap somebody up long term - you're not gonna give long term money to Odom. And if you guys would, you'd have buyer's remorse within three months.

Portland hasn't had a good offseason, but placing Turkoglu and Millsap above Odom is far from a bad decision.

Wow, you haven't seen many Laker games over the past 2 years. If the Lakers loose Odom, they are in trouble. He's that good. He can play off the ball, he can initiate offense, has ALL the tools on both ends of the court, a fantastic body for the NBA. So he has lapses.. big deal. Thats why he should make 10 million instead of 20 million.

[Rida]

Wow, Odom is being wildly overrated in this thread.

Odom finally pulled it together (sort of) after a full career of not living up to his ability. Why would anybody trust him with any sort of big money offer? He's ridiculously unreliable and inconsistent, he's soft as grapes, and he doesn't work hard or care. We want Portland to go after him because it weakens the Lakers - but does it strengthen the Blazers as much as a tough, young, hard-working power forward would? No, it doesn't. Millsap is a very good player. And he works. Odom is a more talented player, who doesn't work and is older.

Portland doesn't (at least in their mind) have a 2 year championship window they're trying to hit - they're looking at having the best possible 5 to 10 year window. Odom doesn't help that. This is probably the last semi-big free agent they can add for the next half decade, since they'll have to give out long term deals to Roy and Aldridge next summer and possibly Oden after that. For a team whose recent history includes mail-in jobs and criminal behavior by the likes of Zach Randolph, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson and yes, Rasheed Wallace (not criminal behavior, but mail-in jobs for sure), they're not going to give that contract to a jerkoff like Odom. They want to wrap somebody up long term - you're not gonna give long term money to Odom. And if you guys would, you'd have buyer's remorse within three months.

Portland hasn't had a good offseason, but placing Turkoglu and Millsap above Odom is far from a bad decision.

Wow, you haven't seen many Laker games over the past 2 years. If the Lakers loose Odom, they are in trouble. He's that good. He can play off the ball, he can initiate offense, has ALL the tools on both ends of the court, a fantastic body for the NBA. So he has lapses.. big deal. Thats why he should make 10 million instead of 20 million.

You guys have also missed the most important point in the MillSap/Odom debate

Millsap will come off the bench behind Aldridge and Oden.

Odom would likely be their second best player after Roy and start at the 3.

Its lunacy for the Trail Blazers not to attempt to shift the balance of power in the west. Pritchard has a chance to end the Lakers era as a contender and he is wasting his time on Millsap who he is overpaying as a bench player.

Makes no sense

[Fafnir]

I'd take Odom over Millsap in a heartbeat. As much as people complain about Odom's inconsistency, his peak is worth it.

He fluctuates from good (say 9 pts, 7 reb in 29 minutes, and a couple mental lapses), to dominant - tearing through defenses with his speed, size and versatility (going 8-10, with 25 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks). He gives most (non garnett) teams major headaches when he is on.

Millsap is good, but will never be a dominator... especially in the post season. What did he do against LA? 11 and 8? Big deal. Thats lower end Odom material. By the way, in that series, Odom put up 17 and 11 while shooting 62% from the field.

On top of this, if you are Portland, wouldn't you want to stick it to the Lakers? Your big rival?

People keep debating the merits of Odom and ignore the fact that he doesn't want to leave LA. Offering him 8 million dollars would only cause the Lakers to up their offer to match, or slightly exceed it. Then the Blazers get nothing out of it other than costing Jerry Buss a slightly larger luxury tax bill.

[Rida]

I'd take Odom over Millsap in a heartbeat. As much as people complain about Odom's inconsistency, his peak is worth it.

He fluctuates from good (say 9 pts, 7 reb in 29 minutes, and a couple mental lapses), to dominant - tearing through defenses with his speed, size and versatility (going 8-10, with 25 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks). He gives most (non garnett) teams major headaches when he is on.

Millsap is good, but will never be a dominator... especially in the post season. What did he do against LA? 11 and 8? Big deal. Thats lower end Odom material. By the way, in that series, Odom put up 17 and 11 while shooting 62% from the field.

On top of this, if you are Portland, wouldn't you want to stick it to the Lakers? Your big rival?

People keep debating the merits of Odom and ignore the fact that he doesn't want to leave LA. Offering him 8 million dollars would only cause the Lakers to up their offer to match, or slightly exceed it. Then the Blazers get nothing out of it other than costing Jerry Buss a slightly larger luxury tax bill.

Costing Jerry Buss a higher luxury tax bill and having a shot at Odom is better fro the trailblazers than overpaying Millsap to come off the bench

[Rida]

I'd take Odom over Millsap in a heartbeat. As much as people complain about Odom's inconsistency, his peak is worth it.

He fluctuates from good (say 9 pts, 7 reb in 29 minutes, and a couple mental lapses), to dominant - tearing through defenses with his speed, size and versatility (going 8-10, with 25 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks). He gives most (non garnett) teams major headaches when he is on.

Millsap is good, but will never be a dominator... especially in the post season. What did he do against LA? 11 and 8? Big deal. Thats lower end Odom material. By the way, in that series, Odom put up 17 and 11 while shooting 62% from the field.

On top of this, if you are Portland, wouldn't you want to stick it to the Lakers? Your big rival?

People keep debating the merits of Odom and ignore the fact that he doesn't want to leave LA. Offering him 8 million dollars would only cause the Lakers to up their offer to match, or slightly exceed it. Then the Blazers get nothing out of it other than costing Jerry Buss a slightly larger luxury tax bill.

[Bankshot]

I'd take Odom over Millsap in a heartbeat. As much as people complain about Odom's inconsistency, his peak is worth it.

He fluctuates from good (say 9 pts, 7 reb in 29 minutes, and a couple mental lapses), to dominant - tearing through defenses with his speed, size and versatility (going 8-10, with 25 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks). He gives most (non garnett) teams major headaches when he is on.

Millsap is good, but will never be a dominator... especially in the post season. What did he do against LA? 11 and 8? Big deal. Thats lower end Odom material. By the way, in that series, Odom put up 17 and 11 while shooting 62% from the field.

On top of this, if you are Portland, wouldn't you want to stick it to the Lakers? Your big rival?

People keep debating the merits of Odom and ignore the fact that he doesn't want to leave LA. Offering him 8 million dollars would only cause the Lakers to up their offer to match, or slightly exceed it. Then the Blazers get nothing out of it other than costing Jerry Buss a slightly larger luxury tax bill.

Costing Jerry Buss a higher luxury tax bill and having a shot at Odom is better fro the trailblazers than overpaying Millsap to come off the bench

Sounds like a good plan to me.  Might as well make LA pay out of the nose if they're going to keep him anyway.  Portland should offer Odom $10 Million and make LA give him more than that.

[Mr October]

I'd take Odom over Millsap in a heartbeat. As much as people complain about Odom's inconsistency, his peak is worth it.

He fluctuates from good (say 9 pts, 7 reb in 29 minutes, and a couple mental lapses), to dominant - tearing through defenses with his speed, size and versatility (going 8-10, with 25 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks). He gives most (non garnett) teams major headaches when he is on.

Millsap is good, but will never be a dominator... especially in the post season. What did he do against LA? 11 and 8? Big deal. Thats lower end Odom material. By the way, in that series, Odom put up 17 and 11 while shooting 62% from the field.

On top of this, if you are Portland, wouldn't you want to stick it to the Lakers? Your big rival?

People keep debating the merits of Odom and ignore the fact that he doesn't want to leave LA. Offering him 8 million dollars would only cause the Lakers to up their offer to match, or slightly exceed it. Then the Blazers get nothing out of it other than costing Jerry Buss a slightly larger luxury tax bill.

If LA only offers 30/4 and Portland offers 45/4 (which i think he is worth), Odom has 15 more big reasons to enjoy Portland.

Plus it is good business to make a rival overpay for its own, so that they have to let some talent go down the road (see Red Sox - Yankees).

[byennie]

Odom is a good player, no doubt. But everyone seems to fall in love with his versatility. I would prefer Millsap too with the age difference factored in. I'm talking at least a 3 year view. He's 5 years younger, and Odom doesn't take care of his body. Millsap gives you inside toughness. Granted he won't ever play SF or be a distributor or have Odom's handle. But he has a very good chance of being a solid 18/12 type rugged PF for the next 5-10 years.

The Lakers should definitely work hard to keep him. He is an important piece of their puzzle and as such he's worth more to them than anyone else. But with that said, I don't blame the Blazers for going after Millsap.

[hardlyyardley]

sent all this to a blazers season ticket holder.....he is afraid odom would infect the younger players

[Moranis]

David Lee has and always will have been the player the Trailblazers should have targeted.  He is a better more athletic version of Millsap.

If you want to split up the cash, Josh Childress and Chris Wilcox each would have been useful players.

[D Dub]

Portland is at that point where a couple of decisive moves would put them in contention for the WC.  They need more defense, rebounding, and veteran experience to counter LA.  And they need a legit SF, and a backup PF who can box out and rebound.

I can't say it any better than Rida or Mr October did above, TP's for both of you.

By taking Paul Millsap over Lamar Odom right now, you're conceding to the Lakers for the rest of the Kobe era.

[paintitgreen]

Wow, Odom is being wildly overrated in this thread.

Odom finally pulled it together (sort of) after a full career of not living up to his ability. Why would anybody trust him with any sort of big money offer? He's ridiculously unreliable and inconsistent, he's soft as grapes, and he doesn't work hard or care. We want Portland to go after him because it weakens the Lakers - but does it strengthen the Blazers as much as a tough, young, hard-working power forward would? No, it doesn't. Millsap is a very good player. And he works. Odom is a more talented player, who doesn't work and is older.

Portland doesn't (at least in their mind) have a 2 year championship window they're trying to hit - they're looking at having the best possible 5 to 10 year window. Odom doesn't help that. This is probably the last semi-big free agent they can add for the next half decade, since they'll have to give out long term deals to Roy and Aldridge next summer and possibly Oden after that. For a team whose recent history includes mail-in jobs and criminal behavior by the likes of Zach Randolph, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson and yes, Rasheed Wallace (not criminal behavior, but mail-in jobs for sure), they're not going to give that contract to a jerkoff like Odom. They want to wrap somebody up long term - you're not gonna give long term money to Odom. And if you guys would, you'd have buyer's remorse within three months.

Portland hasn't had a good offseason, but placing Turkoglu and Millsap above Odom is far from a bad decision.

Wow, you haven't seen many Laker games over the past 2 years. If the Lakers loose Odom, they are in trouble. He's that good. He can play off the ball, he can initiate offense, has ALL the tools on both ends of the court, a fantastic body for the NBA. So he has lapses.. big deal. Thats why he should make 10 million instead of 20 million.

I fully understand how much his loss would weaken the Lakers and never disputed that.  For that reason I love the idea of Portland stealing Odom from our perspective, but Portland has to look at it for themselves, not for us.

Odom has been ridiculously overrated his entire career. He doesn't have simple "lapses" - he has huge, weeks-long stretches where he doesn't show up at all and he doesn't put together consistent All Star level efforts to counter that. At least he never did until - surprise, surprise - his contract year last season. And he did that as a bench player and third/fourth offensive option. He is admittedly fantastic in that role, but that's not what you want to pay $8-10 million a year for, and definitely not what you want to pay for when you don't have a better starting lineup with at least two superior offensive options to the point that you can really go for a title now.

I've seen it said that he'd be Portland's second best player. What I will say with certainty is that if he's your second best player, you're not going anywhere. The Lakers had him as their second best player beside Kobe - who then was and still is far superior to Brandon Roy - and they couldn't get out of the first round. Portland's path to a championship is to keep their core group together - Roy, Aldridge, Rudy, Oden (they're stuck with that one, which will be their downfall - and put good young pieces in place around them to grow together. I'm not saying it'll work, I'm just saying it makes more sense than going all in for next season. Odom does not fit in with that philosophy in any way.

Now, Turkoglu doesn't fit in with that either, but Turkoglu is a better player than Odom because he's got the skill and actually puts in consistent effort. If I'm giving somebody $8 mil a year, and expecting returns not just next year, but 3 years down the road, I don't want to give it to a career malcontent and shirker - albeit a very talented one - who's in his 30s. Portland was burned by putting too much into guys like Odom over the past five or so years, there's nothing wrong with ignoring this one.

This is not to say Millsap is an ideal fit. But Odom is a terrible fit. A very good player, and a key to LA winning the title last year, but a terrible fit for Portland. Especially since he's already basically said he doesn't want to play anywhere but LA or Miami.

EDIT: I thought Odom was 31 or 32. He's only 29, 30 in November. So the age thing isn't as big a deal as I thought it was. I'm more inclined to agree that Odom is a better fit, although I'm just not sold on Odom putting together a consistent effort in a place he doesn't want to be when he has such a history of loafing. So I wouldn't want to give him a ton of money. But at $8-9 mil a year, he'd be a nice pickup for Portland. I'm thinking that their past history of bad apples, and their impressionably young crew that could pick up bad habits, is much more the reason behind their failure to offer Odom money. I would agree that you can't operate under that atmosphere of fear forever. So I'll stand down, and admit that I wasn't as right as I thought I was. I still think Portland has fairly solid reasons to choose Millsap over Odom, the reasons just aren't as good as I thought they were.

[Mr October]

A couple more Odom thoughts... or restating a couple thoughts:

When we talk about Odom's inconsistency we're talking about a fluctuation between a good/average NBA player and an elite dominator. When Odom is in a lapse/funk, he's still putting up 9 points (on 50% FGs), 7 boards, 2 assists in 28-30 minutes, all while bring the intangibles of solid ball handling, stretching the defense with his range. Thats still good.

On the other end, when he is on, he shreds opponents on both ends of the court (unless he is playing someone bigger, faster, stronger than him like  KG and Sheed  ).

Also, Odom didn't just break out in a contract year. If anything he was killing it with more consistency and better numbers in 07-08.

Also Odom is not a malcontent. He has taken quite well to his bench role and his teammates love him. His flaws are the lapses (between good and elite mind you) and tendency to smoke.... a lot.  -after Sheed, Miles and Stoudamire, the franchise probably has had enough with the blatant smokers, and negative publicity. However the malcontent tag doesn't play into it.

Especially since he's already basically said he doesn't want to play anywhere but LA or Miami.

This is Odom and his agent's problem. They should have been open to everywhere just to raise Odom's value - even Kobe was seriously considering the Clippers just to increase his value a few years ago!! Odom revealed his hand and loyalty - now the Lakers are going to try to under pay him.