Kelly Dwyer Article on Rasheed: Very Critical of His Play Last Season

[winsomme]

Sheed didn't quit, he declined. Big difference.

I don't see it as declining. first and foremost DET was an entirely dysfunctional team post CB trade.

He was already bad in 07/08.

I disagree, but even it was decline, putting him as the third big (behind KG and Perk) is a perfect role....as opposed to him going somewhere and having to be a starter.

[Casperian]

Sheed didn't quit, he declined. Big difference.

I don't see it as declining. first and foremost DET was an entirely dysfunctional team post CB trade.

He was already bad in 07/08.

I disagree, but even it was decline, putting him as the third big (behind KG and Perk) is a perfect role....as opposed to him going somewhere and having to be a starter.

Agree to disagree.

I think he is a downgrade from BBD. He sucks on defense nowadays, grabs less rebounds and takes far more jumpshots than the Baby. He doesn´t seem to care for years now. 97% of the Pistons fans will agree with me.

[guava_wrench]

And also, why is nobody giving AI, Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, or any of the other Pistons crap.  They were a HORRIBLE team with a HORRIBLE coach, and a HORRIBLE situation.  AI completely quit, Hamilton pouted and moaned on the bench and tried to score every time he touched it when he finally started.  Prince looked terrible, and Stuckey looked more like a rookie than his rookie season, but everyone looks at Sheed because A) we signed him and b) he has the "attitude problem.  Granted not all guys on bad teams quit, but I would put money down that he shows up next season.

BIG SIGNING.   Be thankful.

To add to it, who could maintain their morale in that situation last year? I think most NBA players would have checked out to avoid depression.

[toinewalka]

Bad?  I don't know if I would say that.  He was a little lower than where he expects to be, but that was also in just 30 minutes a game, which is less than what he was used to playing.  If you name me a big man in the league that is coming off the bench that is better than Rasheed this year, I will be amazed.  Paul Millsap I will give you is maybe more energetic/athletic, but not as talented, and he is most likely going to get a starting spot.  This was a GREAT signing by Danny.

[Casperian]

Bad?  I don't know if I would say that.  He was a little lower than where he expects to be, but that was also in just 30 minutes a game, which is less than what he was used to playing.  If you name me a big man in the league that is coming off the bench that is better than Rasheed this year, I will be amazed.  Paul Millsap I will give you is maybe more energetic/athletic, but not as talented, and he is most likely going to get a starting spot.  This was a GREAT signing by Danny.

Bench Bigs who were better than Wallace last year:

Pachulia
Davis
Powe
B. Miller
McDyess
Foster
Nesterovic
Haslem
Beasley
Gortat
Speights
Bargnani (does he count as a bench player?)
Bass
Andersen
Balkman
Landry
Odom
Warrick
Love
Collison
Wilcox
Frye
Przybilla
Millsap

not to mention that we`ll have Wallace on this team for the next 2 years, where we can expect him to decline even more and younger bigs around the league to improve.

[xmuscularghandix]

Bad?  I don't know if I would say that.  He was a little lower than where he expects to be, but that was also in just 30 minutes a game, which is less than what he was used to playing.  If you name me a big man in the league that is coming off the bench that is better than Rasheed this year, I will be amazed.  Paul Millsap I will give you is maybe more energetic/athletic, but not as talented, and he is most likely going to get a starting spot.  This was a GREAT signing by Danny.

Bench Bigs who were better than Wallace last year:

Pachulia
Davis
Powe
B. Miller
McDyess
Foster
Nesterovic
Haslem
Beasley
Gortat
Speights
Bargnani (does he count as a bench player?)
Bass
Andersen
Balkman
Landry
Odom
Warrick
Love
Collison
Wilcox
Frye
Przybilla
Millsap

and that doesn`t account for the fact that we`ll have Wallace on this team for the next 2 years, where we can expect him to decline even more and younger bigs around the league to improve.

I don't this so. He was playing for a team where the players were against the coach, you can't count there play from last year.

[crownsy]

People had the EXACT same concern with Randy Moss

Moss is one example where it worked out (although he seemed to loaf a bit last season with Brady down).  How many contrary examples are there, though?  Generally, quitters quit, and others don't.

Dillon, Marbury, harrision, stallworth to an extent... there are more examples on non-boston teams i'm sure.

I find it's more teams not concerned with winning and trying to maximize the effort that brings out that character flaw, and that veteran teams can hide it because they have a goal.

I agree it's a character flaw that separates "very good" from "great", but i think it's more of a "needs something to play for" flaw. Alot of guys can't keep their motor up without knowing the team goal is to win. Sad, but true, IMO.

[toinewalka]

Balkman, are you serious?  It is hard to take much of that list seriously.  And Bargnani doesn't count as a bench player.  We started much of the season, and plays more of a 3 than anything else, like Rashard.

[Birdbrain]

Sheed didn't quit, he declined. Big difference.

I don't see it as declining. first and foremost DET was an entirely dysfunctional team post CB trade.

He was already bad in 07/08.

I disagree, but even it was decline, putting him as the third big (behind KG and Perk) is a perfect role....as opposed to him going somewhere and having to be a starter.

Agree to disagree.

I think he is a downgrade from BBD. He sucks on defense nowadays, grabs less rebounds and takes far more jumpshots than the Baby. He doesn´t seem to care for years now. 97% of the Pistons fans will agree with me.

Unfortunately you are correct about Detroit fans.  It's not like everyone else doesn't know he's declined.  He only got the MLE.  Now his decline still makes him a good big off the bench.  I also agree that letting BBD go and getting Wallace is net minus.

[Casperian]

People had the EXACT same concern with Randy Moss

Moss is one example where it worked out (although he seemed to loaf a bit last season with Brady down).  How many contrary examples are there, though?  Generally, quitters quit, and others don't.

Dillon, Marbury, harrision, stallworth to an extent... there are more examples on non-boston teams i'm sure.

I find it's more teams not concerned with winning and trying to maximize the effort that brings out that character flaw, and that veteran teams can hide it because they have a goal.

I agree it's a character flaw that separates "very good" from "great", but i think it's more of a "needs something to play for" flaw. Alot of guys can't keep their motor up without knowing the team goal is to win. Sad, but true, IMO.

I´m sorry, crownsy, I don´t mean to single you out, because everyone uses this argument, but that sounds like a bunch of excuses. Rationalization, if you want to. Maybe because Rasheed means bragging rights on the interwebs?

He is a professional athlete. Even more, we count on him as one of our veteran leaders, if we are supposed to believe Doc. These flaws can be hidden in games like football, where you´re part of a big team. But in basketball, where your effort makes 20% of the team effort? On the vet minimum, I could understand this signing, but the whole MLE is crazy.

Balkman, are you serious?  It is hard to take much of that list seriously.  And Bargnani doesn't count as a bench player.  We started much of the season, and plays more of a 3 than anything else, like Rashard.

Well, then take these two names off the list, that doesn´t change my argument.

[toinewalka]

Actually, I'll go one by one while I'm at it.

Pachulia  (debatable, I'll give you that, but a much less talented player,
            if with Sheed aging)
Davis      (No, good playoffs, dissappeared at time, stepped up as a STARTER).
Powe       (Only scores inside, nowhere near the defender)
B. Miller    (good series against us, washed up, less athletic and potent
             at both ends)
McDyess    (Not even as good as Sheed last year, and he'll start again w/out a trade)
Foster      (Spare me, plays minutes by default, gets O boards....period)
Nesterovic    (No need to comment, lucky to still be in the league).
Haslem       (Starter, much less talented, made his name hitting elboy jumpers
             next to Shaq)
Beasley     (Potential is higher, plays NO D, only mid range game on O).
Gortat       (Barely played, but I will give you this one because I think he
             can be alright with more playing time, but I wouldn't say better
             until he proves it)
Speights     (Awful team, got decent minutes, decent production, give me Sheed).
Bargnani      (already commented above)
Bass         (Good athlete/rebouncer, slightly better than Powe)
Andersen     (Shot blocking, PERIOD, and even that he couldn't do in the finals).
Balkman       (You must be kidding with this one, seriously.  Career ave.
              4 pts 3 rbs)
Landry       (big body on D, gives you NOTHING else)
Odom         (Should be a starter, but I will give you this one,
              WAY out of our reach)
Warrick      (Athletic, yes, but undersized, and VERY un-refined game)
Love         (Maybe in a few years, but his O needs work, his D is too slow, and
              he needs to get used to rebounding in the NBA, but I would love to
              have him because of his potential and where he is now, but unrealistic)
Collison      (Absolutely not.  Slow, very little O, even less D)
Wilcox       (Been on the decline since 06, gives very little expect maybe 6 points
             here or there)
Frye         (too frail, good leaper, little O, little D, nowhere near Sheed).
Przybilla     (Started all last season, possibly every game, I would have to check).
Millsap     (I already threw out this name, he will most liekly start next year,
            and he gives you good athletisism, good O, and good D.  I like him,
            but we would never get near him).

Sheed was the best possible move for this off season, and is going to be a top 5 big man in the league off the bench, and that is being REALLY conservative.

[snively]

Sheed didn't quit, he declined. Big difference.

I don't see it as declining. first and foremost DET was an entirely dysfunctional team post CB trade.

He was already bad in 07/08.

I disagree, but even it was decline, putting him as the third big (behind KG and Perk) is a perfect role....as opposed to him going somewhere and having to be a starter.

Agree to disagree.

I think he is a downgrade from BBD. He sucks on defense nowadays, grabs less rebounds and takes far more jumpshots than the Baby. He doesn´t seem to care for years now. 97% of the Pistons fans will agree with me.

The hate is misplaced, Casperian. From a quick scan of 82games stats for last season, Sheed was an inferior offensive rebounder but a far superior defensive rebounder than Baby.  And while he did take a lot more jumpers, he nailed them at a stellar 49% eFG compared to Baby's abysmal 37%.  Add in superior shot-blocking and a lower-turnover rate and you've got yourself a massive statistical upgrade in Sheed.

As for the Dwyer article, his assertion that Sheed was brought in to match-up with Rashard Lewis makes no sense to me.  Sheed is primarily a 5.  We didn't bring him in to guard 3/4 hybrids.

[toinewalka]

And KG does fine covering Rashard.   He is not the kind of guy you have to gameplan around.  Hedo caused just as much of a matchup problem.  With him gone, and Vince as a true 2, it should be an easier time this year. 

[Casperian]

Sheed didn't quit, he declined. Big difference.

I don't see it as declining. first and foremost DET was an entirely dysfunctional team post CB trade.

He was already bad in 07/08.

I disagree, but even it was decline, putting him as the third big (behind KG and Perk) is a perfect role....as opposed to him going somewhere and having to be a starter.

Agree to disagree.

I think he is a downgrade from BBD. He sucks on defense nowadays, grabs less rebounds and takes far more jumpshots than the Baby. He doesn´t seem to care for years now. 97% of the Pistons fans will agree with me.

The hate is misplaced, Casperian. From a quick scan of 82games stats for last season, Sheed was an inferior offensive rebounder but a far superior defensive rebounder than Baby.  And while he did take a lot more jumpers, he nailed them at a stellar 49% eFG compared to Baby's abysmal 37%.  Add in superior shot-blocking and a lower-turnover rate and you've got yourself a massive statistical upgrade in Sheed.

As for the Dwyer article, his assertion that Sheed was brought in to match-up with Rashard Lewis makes no sense to me.  Sheed is primarily a 5.  We didn't bring him in to guard 3/4 hybrids.

Yeah, but Baby had to change his game over one off-season. He was abymal in the beginning, but excellent in the end. Rasheed had 5 good games over the whole season, and we´re stuck with him for the next 2 years.
Everyone makes it sound as if it´s crazy to assume that a 35 year old player, who already showed more than just signs of decline, will decline even more in the next 2 years.

[Casperian]

Actually, I'll go one by one while I'm at it.

Pachulia  (debatable, I'll give you that, but a much less talented player,
            if with Sheed aging)
Davis      (No, good playoffs, dissappeared at time, stepped up as a STARTER).
Powe       (Only scores inside, nowhere near the defender)
B. Miller    (good series against us, washed up, less athletic and potent
             at both ends)
McDyess    (Not even as good as Sheed last year, and he'll start again w/out a trade)
Foster      (Spare me, plays minutes by default, gets O boards....period)
Nesterovic    (No need to comment, lucky to still be in the league).
Haslem       (Starter, much less talented, made his name hitting elboy jumpers
             next to Shaq)
Beasley     (Potential is higher, plays NO D, only mid range game on O).
Gortat       (Barely played, but I will give you this one because I think he
             can be alright with more playing time, but I wouldn't say better
             until he proves it)
Speights     (Awful team, got decent minutes, decent production, give me Sheed).
Bargnani      (already commented above)
Bass         (Good athlete/rebouncer, slightly better than Powe)
Andersen     (Shot blocking, PERIOD, and even that he couldn't do in the finals).
Balkman       (You must be kidding with this one, seriously.  Career ave.
              4 pts 3 rbs)
Landry       (big body on D, gives you NOTHING else)
Odom         (Should be a starter, but I will give you this one,
              WAY out of our reach)
Warrick      (Athletic, yes, but undersized, and VERY un-refined game)
Love         (Maybe in a few years, but his O needs work, his D is too slow, and
              he needs to get used to rebounding in the NBA, but I would love to
              have him because of his potential and where he is now, but unrealistic)
Collison      (Absolutely not.  Slow, very little O, even less D)
Wilcox       (Been on the decline since 06, gives very little expect maybe 6 points
             here or there)
Frye         (too frail, good leaper, little O, little D, nowhere near Sheed).
Przybilla     (Started all last season, possibly every game, I would have to check).
Millsap     (I already threw out this name, he will most liekly start next year,
            and he gives you good athletisism, good O, and good D.  I like him,
            but we would never get near him).

Sheed was the best possible move for this off season, and is going to be a top 5 big man in the league off the bench, and that is being REALLY conservative.

*sigh*

agree to disagree