I'm questioning Ainge

[Bankshot]

It's Leon Powe, everyone needs to relax. I love what he did here, but he has knee problems. And quite frankly he isn't that good, he is a decent bench player. If the Celtics get Sheed, then Leon will be pushed back to never getting off the bench anyways. ITS LEON POWE, the Celtics will survive.

Exactly.  People are going crazy like Powe was some superstar.

[Casperian]

I`m not an Ainge apologist. I have a critical mind and can form my own opinion.

I`ve criticized him heavily for last off-season, and from how things look like, I will probably criticize him even more after this off-season. Danny did a sub-average job over the last 2 years, to say the least.
But there`s no doubt in my mind that this is the right move.

20 years of suck obviously did a lot to the fans. They accepted their franchise in the role of "lovable losers". How often did I read posts like "Man, Dana Barros was such a great player, good times"!? No, he was not a great player. No, those were not good times. And it doesn`t make you more of a fan that you liked these losers back then.
You know what they say: "Celtics fans rather dream about trading for Kevin Garnett than to actually have him on the team".

How anyone can say they would put "loyalty" over winning after the last 20 years is beyond me. I`m sorry, I wasn`t around in 1986, and I want banners. I certainly don`t want Kobe and the Lakers to win another ring.

[twentythree9]

First, let me make it clear that I am not supporting Ainge or management here.  I believe they made a calculated gamble here based on the premise that: 1) the dollars he would've taken up could be used to sign FAs to fill their immediate needs elsewhere (if you want to simplify it, Powe's $ could be applied to Big Baby's contract, not an insignificant amount given the C's are in luxury tax land); 2) there is no guarantee that Powe would return and be effective (if you listen to Ainge's words carefully about willing to sign Powe provided he's healthy...you can see that's a big concern for the C's especially in the current economic environment and again with the C's already in luxury tax land); 3) that Powe would still likely be available later this summer or towards the end of this year at which point the C's will know their roster and have more visibility on when Powe would be able to return; and 4) someone feel free to correct me if this is wrong, but I believe that given the number of years Powe has played, he would be a cheaper contract as a vet minimum than the qualifying offer we would've tendered.

Look, I don't think you can be a true Celtics fan without feeling some remorse that Powe was not extended a qualifying offer.  We all loved his hard-hat work ethic, the odds he overcame to reach the NBA and generally being a quality human being.

Having said that, I just felt the need to post because many of you have NO CLUE as to how contracts work in the NBA.  Talking about how Powe is more valuable than Scal, TA, JR, Gabe, etc?  I don't disagree one bit- a HEALTHY Powe is more valuable than any of those guys.  However, besides Gabe, the other three have GUARANTEED contracts.  Now, Scal and TA have guaranteed but EXPIRING contracts, and thus the onus is on Danny to turn those assets into something productive for us off the bench.  Just appreciate the fact that this isn't pick-up basketball at the Y.  There are real contracts, real $$ and real rules involved here that make what seem like obvious no-brainer basketball decisions impossible in reality.

[Roy Hobbs]

I've stated this same argument in about three different threads. I think BudweiserCeltic summed it all up best.

I don't understand the outrage at all. There's no space for him at the moment, sad story but "crap" happens.

We have 11 players currently in our roster. Then we have Big Baby, that's 12. We plan to add another PF/C (Rasheed)... that's 13. We plan to add another SF (Ross, Hill, Barnes, etc.), that's 14. We are probably looking for another PG (Hudson, Marbury, etc.). That's 15.

Where does Powe and his massive injury fit at the moment? Nowhere. We could probably cur Pruitt, but it won't be to add an injured player... who knows, maybe he starts playing better. You can't make Pruitt the victim here, he deserves the chance to make the roster.

Before this happened, there were tons of speculations that this coming FA season, the Celtics will have to choose between Baby and Powe... by the majority this was an accepted turn of events, well we chose one. Too bad Powe is injured, but we're not a charity here.

I love Powe, but not extending him the QO and saying we won't offer him a contract until after we've finished filling out our bench makes sense. We don't know if Powe will be able to contribute at all this coming season.


You talk about Sam Cassell, but we didn't sign him until the summer FA was already all over and we had extra room. If we have only 14 players I'm sure Ainge will be calling Powe up about a minimum deal.

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

[Fafnir]

I've stated this same argument in about three different threads. I think BudweiserCeltic summed it all up best.

I don't understand the outrage at all. There's no space for him at the moment, sad story but "crap" happens.

We have 11 players currently in our roster. Then we have Big Baby, that's 12. We plan to add another PF/C (Rasheed)... that's 13. We plan to add another SF (Ross, Hill, Barnes, etc.), that's 14. We are probably looking for another PG (Hudson, Marbury, etc.). That's 15.

Where does Powe and his massive injury fit at the moment? Nowhere. We could probably cur Pruitt, but it won't be to add an injured player... who knows, maybe he starts playing better. You can't make Pruitt the victim here, he deserves the chance to make the roster.

Before this happened, there were tons of speculations that this coming FA season, the Celtics will have to choose between Baby and Powe... by the majority this was an accepted turn of events, well we chose one. Too bad Powe is injured, but we're not a charity here.

I love Powe, but not extending him the QO and saying we won't offer him a contract until after we've finished filling out our bench makes sense. We don't know if Powe will be able to contribute at all this coming season.


You talk about Sam Cassell, but we didn't sign him until the summer FA was already all over and we had extra room. If we have only 14 players I'm sure Ainge will be calling Powe up about a minimum deal.

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

Depends on who we sign. Say we resign BBD and get two quality bigs and a wing. Then we might be looking at Tyronne Lue as our PG depth. Then Pruitt might have more value to the team.

[Roy Hobbs]

I've stated this same argument in about three different threads. I think BudweiserCeltic summed it all up best.

I don't understand the outrage at all. There's no space for him at the moment, sad story but "crap" happens.

We have 11 players currently in our roster. Then we have Big Baby, that's 12. We plan to add another PF/C (Rasheed)... that's 13. We plan to add another SF (Ross, Hill, Barnes, etc.), that's 14. We are probably looking for another PG (Hudson, Marbury, etc.). That's 15.

Where does Powe and his massive injury fit at the moment? Nowhere. We could probably cur Pruitt, but it won't be to add an injured player... who knows, maybe he starts playing better. You can't make Pruitt the victim here, he deserves the chance to make the roster.

Before this happened, there were tons of speculations that this coming FA season, the Celtics will have to choose between Baby and Powe... by the majority this was an accepted turn of events, well we chose one. Too bad Powe is injured, but we're not a charity here.

I love Powe, but not extending him the QO and saying we won't offer him a contract until after we've finished filling out our bench makes sense. We don't know if Powe will be able to contribute at all this coming season.


You talk about Sam Cassell, but we didn't sign him until the summer FA was already all over and we had extra room. If we have only 14 players I'm sure Ainge will be calling Powe up about a minimum deal.

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

Depends on who we sign. Say we resign BBD and get two quality bigs and a wing. Then we might be looking at Tyronne Lue as our PG depth. Then Pruitt might have more value to the team.

From what I've seen, Pruitt doesn't add very much value at all.  If we're ever relying upon him as our primary backup PG, this team is in serious trouble (since Rondo will be worn down from playing 44 minutes per night).

[Rondo2287]

We are all questioning this like when we traded for KG and everyone was saying did we really have to give up Ryan Gomes??? Sure everybody liked both him and powe, but its really all about being able to field the best team.  If danny thinks not giving a guy who is already undersized and now has a torn ACL a qualifying offer is the best way to position the Celtics to win then by all means.  I have appreciated everything Powe has given us the past couple years.  But we all know danny says he was there when Red relied on loyalty and kept the big three together too long.  You think he is going to rely on loyalty and keep around an injured energy and role player? 

[Casperian]

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

If he can´t play, he can´t play. You´re stretching the term "value" here.

What happens if Perk´s shoulder worries him in the next playoffs, and all we have is the ancient Sheed, Big Baby and an injured Leon Powe? What happens if he can never play again, and we´re stuck with his contract? I´m not willing to take too many gambles with this team, we did it last off-season, and it brought us Mikki Moore.

Gabe Pruitt still has value as a throw in in trades, just like Tony Allen. If you include Leon instead of Gabe into a trade, you´ve lost him. If you wait until his injury is healed, you still have a chance to sign him before the dead-line or next off-season. If you don´t sign him, he´ll get a contract somewhere else, and then there´s no reason to complain about the cruel NBA business.

[Roy Hobbs]

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

If he can´t play, he can´t play. You´re stretching the term "value" here.

What happens if Perk´s shoulder worries him in the next playoffs, and all we have is the ancient Sheed, Big Baby and an injured Leon Powe? What happens if he can never play again, and we´re stuck with his contract? I´m not willing to take too many gambles with this team, we did it last off-season, and it brought us Mikki Moore.

If Perk's shoulder goes, this team is screwed regardless.  If we're signing Rasheed and BBD, I don't see how anybody could complain about Danny not shoring up the position.  What additional free agent would you have the team sign in place of Powe?  In terms of "risk / reward" gambling, there won't be a better player on the market than Leon Powe.  If he pans out, you get a top-notch rebounder and solid post scorer for the NBA minimum.  It seems silly to preclude that.

Gabe Pruitt still has value as a throw in in trades, just like Tony Allen. If you include Leon instead of Gabe into a trade, you´ve lost him. If you wait until his injury is healed, you still have a chance to sign him before the dead-line or next off-season. If you don´t sign him, he´ll get a contract somewhere else, and then there´s no reason to complain about the cruel NBA business.

Pruitt doesn't have much value at all.  I mean, if another team is jonesing that much for a minimum-salaried expiring contract, we can do a sign-and-trade with just about any bench-warmer in the league.

With Powe, it's a gamble.  This team has paid players like Sam Cassell, Patrick O'Bryant, etc., to do little more than to take up a roster spot.  I think it's stupid to refuse to do so when there's a player you *know* is capable of being a double-double machine sitting at the end of the bench.  Danny's decision not to even offer him a minimum contract until at least February is stupid and nonsensical.

[toinewalka]

He laced it up when his team needed him and reinjured a knee that he put on the line despite it plaguing his career.

He actually hurt the OTHER knee, nothing to do with the original injury.

[jdpapa3]

People are assuming he will be the same old Leon Powe when he comes back at the all star break, if he does.

What everyone is missing is the fact that Ainge is in talks with the medical staff. Ainge knows what he has in Leon. He bought the pick to draft him and Powe assisted Ainge in his first championship as a gm. Don't you think the medical staff sees a grim situation in Leon's knee if Ainge made the comments that he did?

I don't understand the whole classless argument. Ainge can go through the DL and find the best human interest story if that's what all of you guys want.

[Roy Hobbs]

People are assuming he will be the same old Leon Powe when he comes back at the all star break, if he does.

No, people are assuming that there's a possibility that Leon *might* come back at that level, and I think that's accurate.  That's what makes offering Leon a roster spot for the minimum now a good gamble.  Yes, it would be a gamble, but it would be a calculated one.

Again, I'd rather take a chance on a rehabbing Leon Powe than a guy like Pruitt or Hudson, both of whom are, at best, fringe NBA players.  Powe has shown that he belongs.

[Casperian]

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

If he can´t play, he can´t play. You´re stretching the term "value" here.

What happens if Perk´s shoulder worries him in the next playoffs, and all we have is the ancient Sheed, Big Baby and an injured Leon Powe? What happens if he can never play again, and we´re stuck with his contract? I´m not willing to take too many gambles with this team, we did it last off-season, and it brought us Mikki Moore.

If Perk's shoulder goes, this team is screwed regardless.  If we're signing Rasheed and BBD, I don't see how anybody could complain about Danny not shoring up the position.  What additional free agent would you have the team sign in place of Powe?  In terms of "risk / reward" gambling, there won't be a better player on the market than Leon Powe.  If he pans out, you get a top-notch rebounder and solid post scorer for the NBA minimum.  It seems silly to preclude that.

Come on, let`s be real, Perk isn`t that important. He`s not KG. Baby was already on the team, so it`s not an upgrade when he comes back. Again, the Celtics didn`t close the door for Leon without opening a window. The pure fact that Leon is a "gamble" shows you that he`s misplaced on a contender. And I think you underrate how much of a gamble 3 torn ACL´s are.

Pruitt doesn't have much value at all.  I mean, if another team is jonesing that much for a minimum-salaried expiring contract, we can do a sign-and-trade with just about any bench-warmer in the league.

He can make salaries match. Not much value at all > injured Leon Powe
We already have no real assets to trade as it is.

With Powe, it's a gamble.  This team has paid players like Sam Cassell, Patrick O'Bryant, etc., to do little more than to take up a roster spot.  I think it's stupid to refuse to do so when there's a player you *know* is capable of being a double-double machine sitting at the end of the bench.  Danny's decision not to even offer him a minimum contract until at least February is stupid and nonsensical.

And we all criticized him for Paddy O`Blount (those of us who can think clearly).
But for Leon, we should make an excuse and sign another gamble? I like Leon, but I don`t like him more than the green jersey.

[Rondo2287]

Oh I beg to differ, Perk is very important.  You dont get by Cleveland or Orlando in the east without perk defending Howard or Shaq.  I repeat, you do not win the east without Perkins

[ssspence]

Eh.  I think BC's argument is undercut because he counts Pruitt among the 11 players.  Even an injured Powe is much more valuable to this team than Gabe Pruitt.

If he can´t play, he can´t play. You´re stretching the term "value" here.

What happens if Perk´s shoulder worries him in the next playoffs, and all we have is the ancient Sheed, Big Baby and an injured Leon Powe? What happens if he can never play again, and we´re stuck with his contract? I´m not willing to take too many gambles with this team, we did it last off-season, and it brought us Mikki Moore.

If Perk's shoulder goes, this team is screwed regardless.  If we're signing Rasheed and BBD, I don't see how anybody could complain about Danny not shoring up the position.  What additional free agent would you have the team sign in place of Powe?  In terms of "risk / reward" gambling, there won't be a better player on the market than Leon Powe.  If he pans out, you get a top-notch rebounder and solid post scorer for the NBA minimum.  It seems silly to preclude that.

Gabe Pruitt still has value as a throw in in trades, just like Tony Allen. If you include Leon instead of Gabe into a trade, you´ve lost him. If you wait until his injury is healed, you still have a chance to sign him before the dead-line or next off-season. If you don´t sign him, he´ll get a contract somewhere else, and then there´s no reason to complain about the cruel NBA business.

Pruitt doesn't have much value at all.  I mean, if another team is jonesing that much for a minimum-salaried expiring contract, we can do a sign-and-trade with just about any bench-warmer in the league.

With Powe, it's a gamble.  This team has paid players like Sam Cassell, Patrick O'Bryant, etc., to do little more than to take up a roster spot.  I think it's stupid to refuse to do so when there's a player you *know* is capable of being a double-double machine sitting at the end of the bench.  Danny's decision not to even offer him a minimum contract until at least February is stupid and nonsensical.

I've got to agree, particularly with the last paragraph. I'd like to hear the logic behind it beyond the 'warm spot at the end of the bench' we're being given thus far, and hope Ainge offers an explanation. Leon's game was never athleticism -- having a lack of speed / creeky knees has always been part of his game. With someone who works as hard  as he does, why not take the chance that with a quick recovery and some practice time he could be himself again by Jan / Feb? There's not a single player on the team with his skill set.