are you really worried about ORL and CLE?

[timepiece33]

I don't believe Orlando is improved, but they are different.  Personally, I'm glad that Turkoglu is gone AND they gave up a pretty good SG as well.   

Cleveland is better.  No doubt.  Shaq is an upgrade over Ben Wallace offensively, but they also got slower and worse defensively.

To me, the Celtics need to build their bench.  Period.  If they do, they should be the favorites this year ... but those are the teams that will push us the most.  So, yes.  You should be worried    But you shouldn't disregard what we have. 

[Fafnir]

If Ainge isn't worried enough to be aggressive in free agency at least, if not in trades this summer, we may not make it to the ECF because BOTH Cleveland and Orlando improve so much.

His tweets indicate that the C's have targets for FA. Based on Doc's comments, Wyc's comments, and Danny's comments we will be aggressive in FA.

Hopefully we'll be successful. The long wait on Posey and then re-signing of House/Tony didn't work last year. I'm hoping they go out get impact additions.

[Fafnir]

I don't believe Orlando is improved, but they are different.  Personally, I'm glad that Turkoglu is gone AND they gave up a pretty good SG as well.   

Cleveland is better.  No doubt.  Shaq is an upgrade over Ben Wallace offensively, but they also got slower and worse defensively.

To me, the Celtics need to build their bench.  Period.  If they do, they should be the favorites this year.

Have they said they won't re-sign Turkoglu?

[BASS_THUMPER]

as long as shaq dont get mad a james for ball hoggin they should do ok..

shaq is not a big improvement

[JSolari]

Posted this elsewhere earlier and added to it now - - - -

My thoughts.

Hedu made 6,864,200 last year.  They were already right @ the cap and were going to have to go over to keep hedu already.

VC made 14,724,125.  This already puts orlando over the cap by a good portion.  Essentially Orlando is stuck and hoping Hedu would actually sign for something like 5 mil a yr and a short contract.  This is because VC contract only goes up from here.

Hedu will get offers of more yrs and money somewhere else.  Plus this doesnt help there team.  There is one ball.

Personally I think this is a dumb move.  Your Losing Gortat, Lee, Battie, Alston, and more than likely Hedu.  So your starting Lineup is Dwight, Rashard, VC, Jameer and whoever @ the other forward maybe pietrus.  But who is on this bench?

Plus they have 67 million to just there new big three...i dunno i see it not helping. no bench screwed in the future....

Really hedu has to take like mid level exception cash.  Inless the team wants to pay like 40 mil in luxury tax money which i doubt.

Plus lets face it sheed will play for a contender. No one talks about this either - ron artest is out there as a FA..could we trade allen to the clippers for a big man - kamen or camby and sign artest - artest wont get more than 5 mil....just a thought.

There are a lot of quality guys out there and Cle and Orlando have no assets left and no cash - we at least have assets...

[JSolari]

not to mention i feel a healthy celtics team can beat anyone of them still in a 7 game series..Orlando and CLE will run up there records and blow us out in a single game..But in 7 gms - I feel confident.  Rondo will be better..and trading Hedu for the always injured VC doesnt matter.  CLE is tough. but i dunno if there team will mesh

[Rondo_is_better]

Posted this elsewhere earlier and added to it now - - - -

My thoughts.

Hedu made 6,864,200 last year.  They were already right @ the cap and were going to have to go over to keep hedu already.

VC made 14,724,125.  This already puts orlando over the cap by a good portion.  Essentially Orlando is stuck and hoping Hedu would actually sign for something like 5 mil a yr and a short contract.  This is because VC contract only goes up from here.

Hedu will get offers of more yrs and money somewhere else.  Plus this doesnt help there team.  There is one ball.

Personally I think this is a dumb move.  Your Losing Gortat, Lee, Battie, Alston, and more than likely Hedu.  So your starting Lineup is Dwight, Rashard, VC, Jameer and whoever @ the other forward maybe pietrus.  But who is on this bench?

Plus they have 67 million to just there new big three...i dunno i see it not helping. no bench screwed in the future....

Really hedu has to take like mid level exception cash.  Inless the team wants to pay like 40 mil in luxury tax money which i doubt.

Plus lets face it sheed will play for a contender. No one talks about this either - ron artest is out there as a FA..could we trade allen to the clippers for a big man - kamen or camby and sign artest - artest wont get more than 5 mil....just a thought.

There are a lot of quality guys out there and Cle and Orlando have no assets left and no cash - we at least have assets...

I don't know enough about cap and stuff but on a rudimentary level this seems plausible and makes me feel a little better. But maybe the Cavs and Magic owners ARE willing to open their checkbooks. Not everyone is stingy like Memphis and Phoenix.

[timepiece33]

Have they said they won't re-sign Turkoglu?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-bk-magic-trade-for-carter-062509,0,3371112.story

Smith has pretty much conceded as much, though we'll see how it plays out.   If they sign Turkoglu, they would be pretty scary ... but they are already over the cap so he's going to cost double the salary he signs for.

[Fafnir]

Have they said they won't re-sign Turkoglu?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-bk-magic-trade-for-carter-062509,0,3371112.story

Smith has pretty much conceded as much, though we'll see how it plays out.   If they sign Turkoglu, they would be pretty scary ... but they are already over the cap so he's going to cost double the salary he signs for.

I'm not as worried then. Vince gives them better versatility but he's also a much easier cover for the C's. Ray, Paul, and our backup 2/3 can all guard him. Our only good option for Hedo was Pierce.

[waltzero]

We still need to make the same moves as before.

Cleveland didn't give up much and should be better, or at least deeper. It should translate to a few more regular season wins, but playoff wins are a different sort of thing.

In the playoffs, Shaq helps them against Orlando more than it helps them against us. Perk is enough of a counter to Shaq now, and Z will be on the floor less, and he used to hurt us by stretching the defense and shooting outside. I guess together they might add a few years to each other's careers though. If we don't add another 5, it hurts us, but if we do, and we already knew we needed to, it's not so bad.

Orlando...I don't like this move. Rafer played great for them and they didn't notice. Jameer Nelson looks like Eddie House + a mountain of hype to me now. The rest of the Magic's players looked a lot better with Rafer at point in the same way that our guys are all better with Rondo at point instead of Eddie. Rafer and Rondo are points, Jameer and Eddie are short 2 guards with fantastic accuracy.

Courtney Lee played great defense and that hurt us. Vince Carter is a weak and inconsistent defender. If they let him match up against Pierce at both ends, the C's will pwn them.

Plus, Vince has never been a big b*lls guy. Hedo is like Ray, he loves an excited crowd and an intense situation. From this last playoff run, I think their other ice water in the veins type guys were Lee and Pietrus. Rafer Alston also stepped up to hit clutch shots...though he is more of an excitable, 'firey' type player like Antoine or Tim Hardaway. It's a different sort of clutch. Rafer is not as good as a bench player because he has to 'heat up.'

Vince is neither...he has a history of disappearing in intense situations and nobody would call him firey. It could result in some funny situations...like Vince and Lewis passing to Pietrus for crunch time shots.

[garypayton]

Orlando would be much tougher to guard. They have a guy now who can create shots.

Cleveland is a big question mark. I wonder how Lebron would feel when he notices his driving lanes clogged.

[KG_ended_Bias]

To be short & sweet, Yes! I am definitely worried, we better have a great summer signing free-agents to stay ahead.

[PosImpos]

I'm only worried that we won't be able to sign the kind of FAs our team needs to sign in order to really compete for a title this upcoming season.

Cle will be better but probably not better enough, and Orlando will have to hold onto Hedo to be significantly improved with VC, which will be tough for them.  They'll also probably be missing a backup C because Gortat will want more money than they can offer.

[Drucci]

If Turkoglu leaves Orlando, and this is likely, I'm not too much worried about the Magic since they would basically have replaced Turkoglu by Carter. Plus, so far, they have lost their bench since Pietrus would start at the 3.

I'm not worried for Cleveland either because Shaq is a terrible pick & roll defender, and LeBron is surrounded by old players. I have a feeling that Shaq won't be in such the great physical shape he was in Phoenix.

What worries me though, is that these teams are just beginning to strengthen their roster so it could appeal a free agent that we are tarketing... and I fear that we could end up with no bench like last year. Otherwise, if we sign the quality big agents that we talked about here for the last few weeks, I still feel that our team is the best in the East, and probably in the league.

[jasail]

Here is my take:

CLE got a body to bang the big guy with.  One of the big reasons they lost to Orlando because they couldn't match up in the interior.  Now they can.  I don't know if this really effects the match up against the C's.  It may even be a positive for the C's as Big Z drew KP off the block and weakened our interior defense.  Shaq won't do that.  CLE needs a forward that can shoot to spread out their offense, help them guard the pick and roll and step out and guard the other PF shooters on top teams (Odom, KG, Lewis).  They also need some back court depth b/c outside of LBJ they have three tweener guards.  Lastly, this slows down CLE tempo even more, and IMO that is not good for CLE.  Why they refuse to run w/Delonte, Mo and LBJ is beyond me. 

ORL got VC and lose Hedo.  So that is good for ORL b/c they mitigate the impact of that loss.  But in the grand scheme of things I agree w/Drucci.  They lost Hedo and Courtney Lee and gained VC.  Now Pietrus starts and they have no 6th man.  Plus VC is VC and who knows what type of teamate he will be and if he will mesh with SVG.  Me thinks this could result in VC launching threes in SVG's drive and kick offense.  IMO this doesn't improve them against the C's.  Lee and JJ played great D against Ray in the playoffs.  VC is NOT a defensive threat.  And I'd personally rather have Ray trade buckets with VC than Ray get shut down because Ray will win the shooting battle. 

In the end both of these trades are good for these teams as they gave up bad contracts (and Courtney Lee) for past All-Stars.  I do not think that either trade improves their match up against the C's.  Bad news is all three of our competitors in the East will be looking for back up bigs and wings, our two biggest holes.  ORL needs an energy guy, CLE needs a shooter and a banger and we need someone with some height and a J.  I think McDyess and Sheed sitting somewhere smiling.