Author Topic: Charlotte Bobcats Fire Sale? Celtics should inquire about it (Read 11405 times)

rondohondo · « **on:** June 19, 2009, 12:51:41 AM »

Apparently the Bobcats owner is losing lots of money and is looking to sell the team. It would make the team easier to sell if they cut salary.

Quote

News has leaked in recent weeks that Bobcats majority owner Bob Johnson, who founded the team in 2004, was losing over $10 million annually from his original $300 million investment and wanted out before he was even more in the red.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/nba-commissioner-david-stern-addresses-sale-of-bobcats-economy-244257.html

I have also read a few articles on the internet saying that the Bobcats would really love to move Emeka Okafor for cap space and cheaper players that can fill a similar role. The Celtics could provide both while getting equal talent back.

Here's the trade

Bos Send: Ray Allen ( 18 MIL Expiring)
Kendrick Perkins
BBD ( S+T 3-4 MIL a year)
Walker

Char sends: Emeka Okafor
Raja Bell
Gerald Wallace

Why for Boston

1) Emeka Okafor

Okafor is just as good if not a better defender than Perk(more of a shot blocker). He is just as strong as Perk and can play great 1 on 1 defense as well., He also has a decent offensive game. Finishes well around the rim and just tough in general.

2) Raja Bell

While Bell is not in Ray Allens league as far as scoring ability he may be just as good if not better in many other catagories. Bell is a career 41% from 3 point land so we wont reall be losing the outside shooting that Ray provided. Bell is also a superior defender to Ray and has the capability to hold some of the best guards in the league to subpar numbers.

3) Gerald Wallace

Wallace would be the perfect fit for the Celtics. He is a stud wing defender and has the ability to put up points and cause havoc all over the court. He would be the perfect backup to PP at SF and would give PP some much needed rest throughout the season to save hime for the playoffs.

4) Young Core of the futue = Rondo, Wallace, Okafor

This trade helps us win now by providing great role player to an already good team. Rondo is 22, Wall is 26 and Okafor is 26. They can help us win and gather playoff experience at the same time which would come in very handy when PP and KG reach the end of the road.

In my opinion this trade strengthens are team both in the short and long term. All 3 guys we get in this trade are very good to great defenders and all can score within the flow of the offense as none of them are 1 on 1 players.

Boston Celtics 2009 - 10 Roster

PG: Rondo / Stephon Marbury (Vet Min)
SG: Bell / Anthony Parker (3 Mil of MLE)
SF: PP / Wallace
PF: KG / McDyess( LLE)
C: Okafor / Mutumbo? Nesterovic ? Magloire? ( Vet Min)

Why for Charlotte

1) Ray Allen

Ray Allen is still an Allstar clutch shooter in the NBA. He is reaching the end of his prime , but he can still play at a high level. The bobcats have never had a player of Ray Allen's caliber so he would likely give a much needed boost for ticket sales. Ray Allen also has an 18 MIL Expiring contract which is a big reason why Charlotte does this trade.

2) Kendrick Perkins

Kendrick Perkins is basically the same player as Okafor , but is making much less money. Okafor is making 10 MIL next year while Perk is making 4 MIL. This would save the Bobcats 6 mil a year for the next two years before Perkins is due for an extension.

3) BBD

BBD would obviously need to be signed and traded after July 1st. BBD showed last year that he can play at a pretty high level when called upon . He would be a great fit for the Bobcats off the bench or as a starter for reasonable money( 4-5 MIL)

4) Walker

Walker is a young prospect with some decent potential.. He is also cheap only making about 600 K over the next few years.

5) Salary relief and Cap Space

The biggest reason the Bobcats would be doing this trade is to cut payroll and create Cap Space while getting back equal talent in the trade. By doing this trade the bobcats would be saving a whole lot of money over the next 3-4 years ( 30 MIL+).

Also if they let Ray Allen go they would be about 20 MIL under the cap for the 2010 free agents.

Charlotte Bobcats 2009 - 10 Roster
PG: Augustin / Vet Min FA
SG: Ray Allen / Walker
SF: #13 Pick / Radmonovic
PF: BBD / Diaw
C: Perk / Diop

What do you guy think ? Fair trade?

nickagneta · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM »

If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

ben · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:44:11 AM »

wow, wild. I like it. I don't think charlotte would like it though and I don't think they would want BBD for more than 2 mil per year. Charlotte wouldn't give up their 2 best players for our third, fifth and 9th (BBD) best players... would they?

rondohondo · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM »

Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM

If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .

hpantazo · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:51:13 AM »

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM

Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .

at this point, I wouldn't give up Perk for Okafor, Perk is too important to our team to be replaced by a guy who may one day be marginally better, after the window of KG and Paul closes. We should try to get Wallace for cheap from them though.

rondohondo · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:54:07 AM »

Quote from: hpantazo on June 19, 2009, 01:51:13 AM

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .

at this point, I wouldn't give up Perk for Okafor, Perk is too important to our team to be replaced by a guy who may one day be marginally better, after the window of KG and Paul closes. We should try to get Wallace for cheap from them though.

Okafor is already as good if not better than Perk. He is just as good of a 1 on 1 defender and a better shot blocker. He avg'd 2.7 blocks per game a few years ago and 2 blocks per game for his career.

nickagneta · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:55:07 AM »

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM

Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .

Problem with your thinking, however, is that I believe, and maybe some others around the league might feel the same, is that besides relief, Charlotte is getting the two best players in this deal. Ray and Perk are both better overall players than Wallace, Okafor and Bell. Perk and Ray might be OUR 3rd and 5th best players but they are still better than either of Charlotte's first or second best players.

Danny isn't going to trade two of his starters and the two best players in this deal plus the value of a $20 million expiring contract for three players that couldn't crack the Celtics current starting lineup.

Ray and junk, because it is a salary dump, would do the trick. If Ray wasn't an expiring deal, then maybe Perk and Ray would be needed for such a deal. But that would be about it.

rondohondo · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:00:43 AM »

Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:55:07 AM

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .
Problem with your thinking, however, is that I believe, and maybe some others around the league might feel the same, is that besides relief, Charlotte is getting the two best players in this deal. Ray and Perk are both better overall players than Wallace, Okafor and Bell. Perk and Ray might be OUR 3rd and 5th best players but they are still better than either of Charlotte's first or second best players.

Danny isn't going to trade two of his starters and the two best players in this deal plus the value of a $20 million expiring contract for three players that couldn't crack the Celtics current starting lineup.

Ray and junk, because it is a salary dump, would do the trick. If Ray wasn't an expiring deal, then maybe Perk and Ray would be needed for such a deal. But that would be about it.

This is the way I see it we may be giving up more talent but here's why I do it.

1)Okafor is just as good as Perk. We would still have a great defender as our Center and he is still only 26.

2) Ray = Wallace and Bell

While Bell and Wallace aren't currently as good as Ray at scoring, they are such better defenders and they can put up 10-15 ppg each to make up for Rays Points and Bell is also a deadly 3P shooter. Ray is reaching the end of his prime and this may be the last time we can acquire some young talent for a few years with Rays expiring contract.

3) The biggest reason is we have a legit backup wing to help save PP for the playoffs. I think you are understimating how much Wallace could do for the bench and keeping PP mins down during the regular season.

Newguy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:06:52 AM »

Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:55:07 AM

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .
Problem with your thinking, however, is that I believe, and maybe some others around the league might feel the same, is that besides relief, Charlotte is getting the two best players in this deal. Ray and Perk are both better overall players than Wallace, Okafor and Bell. Perk and Ray might be OUR 3rd and 5th best players but they are still better than either of Charlotte's first or second best players.

Danny isn't going to trade two of his starters and the two best players in this deal plus the value of a $20 million expiring contract for three players that couldn't crack the Celtics current starting lineup.

Ray and junk, because it is a salary dump, would do the trick. If Ray wasn't an expiring deal, then maybe Perk and Ray would be needed for such a deal. But that would be about it.

Not sure Perk is better than Okafor. Although Perk is a beast on defensive, I think Okafor may still be better. He's also a better offensive player. I would definitely trade for Okafor.

hpantazo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:42:27 AM »

Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:54:07 AM

Quote from: hpantazo on June 19, 2009, 01:51:13 AM
Quote from: rondohondo on June 19, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
Quote from: nickagneta on June 19, 2009, 01:39:27 AM
If Charlotte is in such a fire sale type situation, then I think we are overpaying with the package we are giving up. I really think a Ray, Walker or Giddens, and BBD package would be all that you would need.

Remember what LA had to pay Memphis for their fire sale of Gasol? Phoenix has given up a bunch of great draft picks for nothing but cash to save many(Rondo). The Clippers got Camby for next to nothing in a fire sale salary dump.

I think your idea is excellent, especially as I suggested something similar a month ago, but in salary dumps, the team taking on the salary usually doesn't have to give up anywhere near the quality of talent that your original post wanted to send to Charlotte.

Heck, Ray, Scal and Tony might be enough considering it would mean Charlotte could knock off $28 million in salary the next year. They might even be able to save more by eventually buying out any and/or all three of the players.

Well I think we would have to give up Perk in the trade. They may be desperate for salary relief , but I don't think they will give away 2 of their best players for just relief, they have to get some kind of young talent back and Perk would give that to them. Plus with Okafor now the Center, Perk wouldn't be as important .

at this point, I wouldn't give up Perk for Okafor, Perk is too important to our team to be replaced by a guy who may one day be marginally better, after the window of KG and Paul closes. We should try to get Wallace for cheap from them though.

Okafor is already as good if not better than Perk. He is just as good of a 1 on 1 defender and a better shot blocker. He avg'd 2.7 blocks per game a few years ago and 2 blocks per game for his career.

stats don't tell the whole story. Perk is a better, smarter defender who knows our system and shuts down every opposing center, just look at his defense on Dwight Howard in the playoffs. There are many guys that block shots and send the ball out of bounds. Perk knows how to keep the ball in play, how to draw charges (something that would have helped the magic a lot if Howard knew how to do it, and Perk knows his opponents well enough to know the weaknesses to target. He knows how to win, I wouldn't trade a young center like him at this point unless it's in a package for someone like Dwight Howard. The only thing that concerns me about Perkins is his shoulder. His offense has also improved vastly in the last year. He was a steady offensive presence in the post this postseason.

L.A.bornCELTICSfansince81 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2009, 03:13:13 AM »

Has ANYONE thought that PERK has gotten better each year , is a better free throw shooter than emeka, PERK is easily top 3 strongest post defenders in the entire league, a legitimate 6'10" if not 6'11", battle tested great defending the pick and roll and an above avg shot blocker, great rebounder great paint defender, we dont need to include perk in this trade if there is indeed a fire sale,and I pray that if 3ray is traded it is to a team that does not have him in their future plans and buy him out and he comes back 2 beantown baby..........LETS GO CELTICS!!!!!
WE COMIN BACK FOR EVERYTHING THEY OWE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vgulab · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:35:24 AM »

i agree that perk got better ths season and that's why i wouldn't made this trade. we all agree that we have one great centar for only 4m per year and that's something we can't lose.

okafor and perk are simular players and perk i much cheaper so why we want this trade? for gerald wallace ofcourse. i respect wallace he is great player great defender a guy who knows how to get on the free trow line agresive also but if i were danny ainge i wouldn't change Celtics game so if i trade Ray i would take a 3point shooter and wallace is not.here comes raja bell he is great 3point shooter so ray for bell and wallace maybe but perk, ray , big baby for okafor walace and bell NO WAY because it is not a good trade for us.

the only way i would trade perk is if we make a deal with the suns and get amare otherwise perk is to valuable and we will make a mistake if we trade him. honesly i thought perk is limited player and i knew that he was playing with heart but his basketball abilities were 0. but after this year playoff i'm amazed with perks.

bottom line this trade is not good for us and it's not good for them

nebist · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:16:32 AM »

Yeah, I think we should inquire about their guys if they are looking to dump money. But if we are helping them out by taking on their long-term salary, there is no way we should be giving up that much talent in return. Ray is the best player in that deal and Perk and Emeka are close (although Perk's contract makes him more valuable IMO).

If they're truly trying to dump salary in this economy, then we shouldn't have to offer anything much more than expiring contracts.

A couple examples:
TA, Scal, and BBD (S+T 3-4 mil) for either Boris Diaw or Gerald Wallace. Wallace has 4 years left at around 40 mil and Diaw has three years left at 27. Either deal saves the Cats a boatload of future money and gets them a young rotation player back.

OR

Ray Allen and BBD (S+T 3-4 mil) for Diaw, Wallace, and Bell. In this deal the Cats would cut almost 40 million dollars over the life of the deals. They get a huge expiring contract to play with (or just let expire if they want to save money), and they get a young rotation player.

That is more along the value of what we should get back if we're going to help them move some of their long-term contracts. Let's be honest, that is a mediocre team with a lot of long-term money tied up, they should be grateful for the opportunity to start over.

Tr1boy · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:10:38 AM »

To Bobcats Ray Allen, BBD(signed)

To Celtics #12 pick (Tyreke Evans), Raja Bell and Nazr Mohammed

Boston will just have to eat up some contracts in order to get that 12 pick

Raja bell and mohammed are still servicable backups and can help us out

nebist · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:22:23 AM »

Ray Allen is a great player AND an expiring contract. People need to stop throwing him into junk deals. It makes some sense to take advantage of his value at this point if you can really improve the depth and talent of the team for next year, but Baby and Ray for Raja Bell, Nazr, and a low lottery pick? That makes us better in no way.

Author Topic: Charlotte Bobcats Fire Sale? Celtics should inquire about it (Read 11405 times)

Charlotte Bobcats Fire Sale? Celtics should inquire about it

rondohondo

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nickagneta

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ben

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rondohondo

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hpantazo

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rondohondo

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nickagneta

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rondohondo

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Newguy

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hpantazo

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L.A.bornCELTICSfansince81

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vgulab

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nebist

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Tr1boy

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nebist

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