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Great Lebron article
« on: June 03, 2009, 10:52:11 AM »

Offline Celtic

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Not sure if this has made the rounds here but this article is fantastic. Adrian Wojnarowski really takes Lebron and the Cavs to task, he says a lot of things that a lot of NBA fans are thinking. There is no mixed message, and he definitely voices loud and clear his opinion of Lebron as not the angel most people would have you believe.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebron060109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 11:03:59 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Well we know one reporter who won't be getting interviews from LeBron anymore.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 08:49:49 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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Adrian is a complete hack who has jumped on every opportunity to rip on Lebron.  He is Yahoo's Skip Bayless. 

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 09:16:16 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Adrian is a complete hack who has jumped on every opportunity to rip on Lebron.  He is Yahoo's Skip Bayless. 
Happens with all great players. You can get a lot of column inches and publicity by bashing the big names in the game.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 09:29:41 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Adrian is a complete hack who has jumped on every opportunity to rip on Lebron.  He is Yahoo's Skip Bayless. 
While I don't disagree with you, MMac, about Wojnarowski, I don't disagree with the article either.

I am sorry but I think LeBron has acted like a spoiled, petulant, self-entitled, pompous, immature ass for much of this year. He is the greatest basketball talent on this planet right now but unfortunately a lifetime of having people grovel at his feet trying to get him to play on their team or at their school or trying to get him to rep their product or wear their gear has instilled an attitude in which, LeBron feels he can do whatever he wants, get whatever he wants, and go where ever he wants.

But he can't. He couldn't go to the Finals like he wanted. Bu that's because someone stopped him and said no. Namely, the Orlando Magic. But everything else LeBron wants, LeBron gets and if he doesn't get it, he's going to whine, moan, and complain until he does get it or gets someone to change their mind about it.

LeBron gets every close or questionable call in the league now because he has begged, moaned, complained and whined to every ref in the league until he started getting every call. LeBron didn't want to shake hands after losing, so he didn't, and then whined, moaned and complained about how he isn't a sore loser, even though he is, until he thought people had changed their mind about it and he was still beloved. LeBron is so distraught over losing he skips the press conference and what does David Stern do? He rewards him by not fining him $10,000 like everyone else and not fining Cleveland $25,000 for forcing him to do it.

LeBron's antics over getting Mo Williams an All-Star berth, taking pictures before games, his hand clapping, dust throwing pregame ritual, his constant acting like he was shot with an automatic weapon after getting barely touched, and other such stuff is wearing thin nationwide and Wojnarowski won't be the first or the last writer to rip LeBron and start exposing him for the complete egotistical, self absorbed primadonna that he is.

I can't wait for some good reporter to put together all the circumstantial evidence and do some real investigative reporting on Lebron and performance enhancing drugs and whether he partook and/or is still partaking in them. Huge head, giant inflamed salivary gland, physique and muscle structure of a 15 year veteran bodybuilder, and protruding eyebrow region and jaw that makes him look about 110 years old all are symptoms of PED use. When is someone going to pick up on this.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 11:03:53 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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Lebron doesn't act any different than any other superstar in the league.  Pierce gets snipered on fouls all the time as well.  Kobe and Wade flop like crazy.  It's part of the game.  The chalk throw is a tribute to Jordan. 

As for foul calls, he gets the same calls other superstars get.  Honestly, there are plenty of times he is bumped where a foul could be called but it is not.  Think about the size of Lebron.  He weighs as much as a center or power forward but is in a small forward body.  He can brush off hits from shooting guards and small forwards on drives but those hits are still fouls and are often not called.  Of course there are also times where he doesn't get touched but gets a foul called. 

I never blame a player for a foul call.  It is not Kobe or Pierce's fault for getting a foul call on a drive becaue they sold the foul.  It is the refs fault for falling for the sell. 

I am not in favor of Lebron not getting fined for not talking to the media.  He broke a rule and should be punished for it.

Give me a freakin break on the PED thing.  Do you think Howard is on PEDs as well since he is built? 

Finally, Lebron is learning what it means to lose.  The guy has never lost in his life.  Think about it.  Last year and this year were the first 2 times in his life where he didn't win.  He has always been able to play team basketball to win games and if that doesn't work he takes things over on his own and wins it by himself.  He tried to beat the Celtics last year with team basketball and when that wasn't working he tried to carry his team (game 7) and it almost worked.  It didn't work and it was the first time in his life that he failed.  Then, this year, he thinks he has the team to compliment him and he has to carry the entire team (and his freakin coach) through a 6 game series that they end up losing.  This was a very hard lesson for him to learn.  The series loss was no fault of his own.  You can call it being a primmadonna, I call it being a winner.  Winners win and losers lose.

Take Michale Jordan when he was winning championships.  The Bulls were heavily favored to win the championship several years in a row and won.  How do you think Jordan would have reacted if the Bulls lost one of those series?

Or, even better, how would KG have reacted last year if the Celtics lost to the Hawks?  He would have been ticked off and it would have been well deserved

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 11:34:13 AM »

Offline ACF

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Good post, Mac. TP.

I disagree on one point, though:

We need to call out LBJ for not
congratulating the Magic when the
6th game was over. That means you,
too. He's a role model and he needs
to teach the kids how to behave after
a game. Win or lose, show some class.
Even the player we hate the most (Kobe)
did it after we crushed them last year.

It's just something you do.
It's called being a professional.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 11:52:18 AM »

Offline cordobes

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Even the player we hate the most (Kobe)
did it after we crushed them last year.

It's just something you do.
It's called being a professional.

In all fairness, Kobe did exactly the same a couple of seasons ago to Nash and the Suns, IIRC, he didn't congratulate them either. Last season he had a lot of time to calm down, with the blowout.

Give me a freakin break on the PED thing. Do you think Howard is on PEDs as well since he is built?

Of course. With the NBA anti-doping policy, I'm pretty sure a large majority of the players are on PEDs. 

Take Michale Jordan when he was winning championships.  The Bulls were heavily favored to win the championship several years in a row and won.  How do you think Jordan would have reacted if the Bulls lost one of those series?

Or, even better, how would KG have reacted last year if the Celtics lost to the Hawks?  He would have been ticked off and it would have been well deserved

That's an absurd comparison. Jordan had some tough losses before winning the championship and he always acted graciously on defeat, versus Boston or the Pistons for so many years. I have no reason to assume he would act differently if he had lost again later in his career. And the Cavs weren't nearly as favoured to win as the championship Bulls were.

About KG, of course he'd have been ticked off, but he'd still congratulate his opponents, I think. Again, no reason to believe otherwise.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 11:53:38 AM »

Offline Cman

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Finally, Lebron is learning what it means to lose.  The guy has never lost in his life.  Think about it.  Last year and this year were the first 2 times in his life where he didn't win.  He has always been able to play team basketball to win games and if that doesn't work he takes things over on his own and wins it by himself.  He tried to beat the Celtics last year with team basketball and when that wasn't working he tried to carry his team (game 7) and it almost worked.  It didn't work and it was the first time in his life that he failed. 

This isn't quite right.
LBJ & the Cavs have lost in the playoffs before last year and this year:
2005-6 lost to Detroit in the 2nd round
2006-7 lost to Spurs in the Finals
2007-8 lost to the Celtics in the 2nd round
2008-9 lost to Orlando in the ECF.

I'm not trying to knock a guy when he is down, but the point is that he has had ample oppty "get to know what it is like to lose".  He should of stayed on the floor and shaken hands with the opposing team and sat for a media interview.  Plain and simple.  He also should have been fined.  Stern acted the court jester by not fining the King.  
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 12:22:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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As much as I like and respect you guys, I still can't agree with you here.

No, every superstar does not act like Lebron. Very few go through the pregame ritual that he does. Not every superstar whines about every time someone breaths on him. Not every superstar acts like he's taking pictures of his team mates.

You mention his size. At least once a week and maybe even more than that, I could go back and find video of LeBron running over someone 6-7 inches and 60-80 lbs smaller than him and suddenly Lebron goes down and comes up holding a body part and acting as if he was shot. I've seen him many times run into a much smaller man and go flyingwhile that man just stood there, like that man could send LeBron to the ground that hard!! It's comical the way that he acts when much smaller men touch him. You may not blame him for the refs calling such crap, but I blame him for so blatantly trying to get fouls all the time.

And you are right. You can't blame LeBron is the refs favor him, and they do, I mean, 1.7 personal fouls per game for someone who is on the NBA All Defense first team? Hell, Michael Cooper, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Hakeem Olajuwan, Kobe all have averaged close to 3 PFs a game while playing great defense and they are all beter defenders than LeBron was this year. But what I can blame LeBron for is acting like he doesn't know he isn't getting favored and complaining about something virtually every time down the court.

As for the PEDs, yeah, I suspect Howard too. But I suspect LeBron more because of the size and shape of his head, his extremely swollen salivary gland, and his lack of body maturation since entering the league at 18 years old. Howard at least has gotten bigger since his rookie year and you can see body maturation on him. LeBron hasn't grown at all since his rookie year. How does a man not grow in size during his late teens and early 20's? Howard also doesn't have the large head or overgrown eyebrow and jaw areas that signal heavy HGH use. Howard also has never had a salivary gland removed because it swelled to an obscene size which is also a sign of HGH use.

Now, for all I know, all of his use could have been prior to playing in the league. But I doubt that. I also wouldn't be surprised to see that a good chunk of players in the league is on PED's, including some of my beloved Celtics. But very few show the obvious signs that LeBron does. I think at this point it is naive of anyone to not suspect every pro athlete of using PEDs, including home town heroes.

As for the apologetic reasoning about LeBron not knowing how to lose, I have to ask, didn't he already learn that last year versus the Celtics or the year before when he lost to the Spurs, or the year before when he lost to the Pistons, or his first year when he lost 47 games? Your reasoning rings hollow here.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 12:28:54 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 12:23:32 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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I know Jordan went through tough losses and the Cavs have lost in the playoffs before but I think you are missing my point.

The Cavs (and Jordan) were not huge favorites in the series they lost.  The Cavs weren't suppossed to beat the Pistons or the Spurs.  They were suppossed to lose.  The Cavs had accomplished their goal in those years (or at least Lebron had, baby steps people, baby steps).  They got out of the first round in 05-06 and beat the Pistons in 06-07. That is what they set out to do.  This year was the first time the Cavs felt they should make the finals.  

I don't mind not shaking hands, honestly, once the game is over it is the Magic's time to celebrate. I think the other players should get out of the way and let them have their celebration.  But, you have to address the media and other team after the celebration is over and give them their due.  I think Lebron learned that this year

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 12:32:15 PM »

Offline PaulPierce34G

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Here's another article from Sports Illustrated.  Good read, too.  You guys think LeBron was really trying to send a message to management by walking off the court after the game 6 loss??

"LeBron James should have shaken hands and congratulated the Orlando Magic the other night. We're all in agreement on that, are we not? He didn't have to be particularly warm, he didn't even have to be sincere. He just needed to bump a couple of fists, or maybe give out a quick man hug or two, before he headed off to the locker room after the Magic eliminated his Cavs from the playoffs on Saturday. Not only would it have saved him the smattering of grief he's been getting from the media and fans the last few days, it just would have also been the right thing to do.

There's not much debate to be had there. You're not likely to find anyone who would seriously argue that snubbing the Magic was a classy move on King James' part. The more interesting question is, Why did LeBron do it? How could a player who has really never been guilty of even the slightest public misstep in his behavior make such an obvious blunder? Or was it a blunder at all?

The simple answer would be that his sportsmanship circuitry just shorted out momentarily. This, after all, was the first time that James had lost a playoff series that his team was widely expected to win. He had never suffered an upset before and he was, well, upset. His explanation the next day hinted that he skipped out -- he didn't talk to reporters after the game, either -- because losing was just too much to bear. "I'm a competitor," he said. "That's what I do. It doesn't make sense to me to go over and shake somebody's hand."

That's almost believable, because James has grown up in an era in which the definition of a great competitor has been badly skewed. We heap so much praise on an athlete who "hates to lose" that some players don't even recognize when that hatred goes too far. It's been said that Michael Jordan would have cheated his own grandmother to win at cards. That's not passion. That's unhealthy.

But so many athletes are now cut from that cloth. They think the inability to deal with defeat gracefully is a sign of competitive fire, when it's often a sign of immaturity. A real competitor gives every ounce of effort to win, but is enough of a man to give respect to an opponent who does the same and prevails.

But the thing is, James has always seemed to get that. He's intelligent and remarkably mature, and beyond that, he's also extremely savvy about building and maintaining his own image. It's hard to believe he was just so overcome by disappointment that he forgot his manners. The guess here is that James knew exactly what he was doing when he turned his back on the Magic, and it had nothing to do with Orlando. By not uttering a word, he was speaking volumes to Cavs management.

It's not hard to connect the dots. James wasn't so devastated by the loss -- it had been clear at least since Game 4 that the Cavs were going to be hard-pressed to win the series, so he had time to get used to the idea -- he was sick of six games of having to do nearly everything himself to keep Cleveland from getting run off the floor. James was more angry than he was disappointed, and given his ability to become a free agent at the end of the year, that anger should have been quite frightening to GM Danny Ferry and the rest of the Cleveland front office. James was putting Ferry on notice that he has no intention of trying to drag this group to a championship again. More help had better be on the way next year, King James seemed to be saying, or tell the Knicks to start getting my uniform ready.

Now, James isn't ready to say all that publicly yet. That's where the public relations savvy comes in. He has another year in Cleveland, at least, and he doesn't want to spend it being portrayed as the demanding superstar threatening the franchise, with his eye on greener pastures. That's more of a Kobe way to play it. No, by drawing attention to his displeasure by abruptly walking off, James was telling the Cavs that if he has to walk away like this at the end of next season, he just might keep walking all the way to New York.

Ferry does have some salary flexibility to play with, so the possibility of tweaking the Cavs roster is there. But James also has some decisions of his own to make, beginning with coach Mike Brown. (And if you think Brown's future will be decided by anyone but LeBron, you're kidding yourself.) Despite his Coach of the Year award, Brown didn't exactly dazzle anyone with his work in the playoffs. Having an assistant draw up plays in the huddle while he tried to look busy, for instance, was a bad, bad look.

But Brown and James have a close relationship, and James will have to decide whether he thinks Brown is the coach who can lead the Cavs to a championship. You get the feeling that it will take a title next season for LeBron to stay in Cleveland, and if that's the case, James might decide that he needs a more experienced, proven coach to make that run.

It all adds up to a fascinating off-season for LeBron and the Cavs, one that began with that game-ending, message-sending walk off the court last Saturday night. It might have seemed like James had finally made a little mistake, but don't be fooled. He knew exactly where he was going."

Via: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/phil_taylor/06/02/lebron/index.html?bcnn=yes


Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 01:01:15 PM »

Offline celticmaestro

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Nick, I'm in complete agreement. Me saying that is pretty much pathetic, but I have nothing more to add. TP for saving me so much time.

Re: Great Lebron article
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 01:52:57 PM »

Offline ACF

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Even the player we hate the most (Kobe)
did it after we crushed them last year.

It's just something you do.
It's called being a professional.

In all fairness, Kobe did exactly the same a couple of seasons ago to Nash and the Suns, IIRC, he didn't congratulate them either. Last season he had a lot of time to calm down, with the blowout.

I didn't know. I stand corrected.
TP for you, H.