Big Baby is Legit!

[Casperian]

EJ, this debate won`t help your cause. You`re right on many occassions. You were right about Sam Cassell, you are right about Tony Allen, but you`re completely wrong about Baby. It´s so wrong that it makes me question the time I invest to think about your arguments.

So, Baby is not a good shot-blocker.
Big Deal. Good defense has nothing to do with the number of Blocks you put up. That`s the same flawed logic that brought a DPOY for Marcus Camby, an all-around sub-par post defender, imo.

Baby is a mediocre Rebounder.
That means he is a pretty good offensive Rebounder, and has pretty bad DR numbers.
You don`t mention that his job is to box out for all the other good Rebounders we have on the team. We`re playing a bit like the New Jersey Nets of 3 years ago there, which means we want Rondo to get our DR to initiate the fastbreak. That is called "playing to his advantages", cause
a) we have a lot of good Rebounders around him
b) he´ll probably never lead the league in Rebounding with his short arms, but
c) he has more bulk than most opposing PF´s and SF´s have.

He is a mediocre shooter.
Compared to the rest of the league? Yes
Compared to other big men? No
The thing is, his improvement is nothing short of astounding. And really, improvement is all we have to look at when evaluating a second-year player. Would you rather have Big Baby or Charlie V taking the 15-footer? Generally, would you rather have Baby or Villanueva on our team? I know I wouldn´t trade them straight-up.

Baby is a poor scorer around the rim.
That is just an insult to Baby, he´s by no means poor, imo.

His Hustle,Bball IQ and soft hands make up for any eventual shortcomings he might have.

[Fafnir]

To say that he doesn't block shots doesn't matter is silly. Having a shot blocking presence is huge for any defense. How many games has Perk won for us with a timely block this year on a key possession.

Blocks aren't the hallmark of good defense. But you need someone to block and alter shots to win in this league. Baby's lack just means we need to have Perk/KG or another shot blocker play the other big man slot. Otherwise we'll be vulnerable to penetration.

[winsomme]

To say that he doesn't block shots doesn't matter is silly. Having a shot blocking presence is huge for any defense. How many games has Perk won for us with a timely block this year on a key possession.

Blocks aren't the hallmark of good defense. But you need someone to block and alter shots to win in this league. Baby's lack just means we need to have Perk/KG or another shot blocker play the other big man slot. Otherwise we'll be vulnerable to penetration.

maybe the question about Baby's shot blocking could be looked at in terms of whether or not you need two shot blockers on the floor at any point in time.

certainly on a team with Perk and KG, shot blocking is at least a little less important.

but i agree in general, you do need to protect the rim. especially against dribble penetration teams....

[Casperian]

To say that he doesn't block shots doesn't matter is silly. Having a shot blocking presence is huge for any defense. How many games has Perk won for us with a timely block this year on a key possession.

Blocks aren't the hallmark of good defense. But you need someone to block and alter shots to win in this league. Baby's lack just means we need to have Perk/KG or another shot blocker play the other big man slot. Otherwise we'll be vulnerable to penetration.

True, but to criticize Baby for his lack of shot-blocking is on the same level.
Perk plays on this team for 5 years, and noone criticized his lack of a reliable post-game or jump-shot last seaon, at least not that they wanted him benched. How often do you hear "Ah man, Powe is good, but his lack of a shot outside of 5 feet is really hurting us, we always need a big man who can shoot. We should trade him for Player X"? How many times did fans of other teams criticize Rondo for his shaky shot, while Celtics fans knew the true value of their PG and supported him?
Only Baby gets criticized from fans of his own team for stuff he can´t do, and receives little praise for the things he can do (at least for his first 1 1/2 seasons in the NBA). You can´t tell me that this has nothing to do with perception.

[Jon]

Let's also keep in mind that he's playing with two future Hall of Famers, Rondo, and Perk.  While I'm very encouraged by his production, we do have to ask ourselves what would happen if he was ever asked to shoulder more of the burden here.  I mean his new jumper is impressive, but he's also hitting it with no one within 5 feet of him.  For those already talking about him taking Garnett's place in a few years, I ask you to think about what will happen when someone actually starts guarding him on that shot.

He may able to adjust and still be a great player.  But I wouldn't get carried away yet.  I remember when Austin Croshere looked good for the Pacers when he played with a very good Pacers team where nobody paid attention to him.  I'd hate to see the C's lock him up to a ridiculous contract and see him follow in his footsteps. 

[BillfromBoston]

I don't think that this is "man crush" stuff.  Big Baby took a lot of critism last year and the 1st half of this season.  Almost everyone thought that he was a liability on the court and should be replaced the moment another player was available through FA or trade.

He has shown that he can be an asset to this team, his play has converted me from a guy that thought trading BBD this offseason was a priority to a guy that would like to keep him as a Celtic as long as we can get him under a reasonable contract.

I don't think anyone is making him out to be the best shooting PF since Tim Duncan, but instead giving him credit for his contribution.  BBD development is like the cherry on top of a ice cream sunday, and I for one is very exicted about this off season.  Hopefully the C's can concentrate on finding some relief for PP on the wing.

If it isn't a man crush, then why all the love with his huge deficiencies. Those negatives he has are pretty big issues for a team needing strength at the big man spots. Do you really think GM's sit around and say that they are out looking for an undersized big who can't rebound that well, can't block shots, can't score around the rim, and is at best a decent outside shooter?! Step back from the green kool-aid and think about that for a minute.

I am impressed that a guy with those deficiencies can even be in the discussion for contributing out there, but let's be realistic about how valuable he really is.

No, but GM's value production...right now Davis is producing on a nightly basis on a larger stage nationally - that is going to count for a lot during the eval period this off-season.

Davis needs to show more consistent rebounding and no, he's never going to block a lot of shots per game, though he'll have his moments.

Most 4's don't play the post these days,  so he'll be evaluated on his ability to his shots and read the court off those face-up touches...so far, so good...

[BillfromBoston]

you guys are probably right that his weight helps build the perception of his personality.

But check him out pre-draft (starting around the 1:15 mark):  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqVB0OMb65M

Am I wrong or does it look like he was in a lot better shape before getting drafted?

How do you go to a team with Kevin Garnett and manage to gain weight?



I wonder how much bigger he'll get once he gets a guaranteed contract.  

But props to him for playing well.  Maybe he's a changed man.

Ya - he's for sure bigger now than he was then...

As good as he is at his current size, I think that turning what is now fat into lean mass will make him a superior player.

Cordobes - don't disagree that his bulk is an asset, but he doesn't need to have 35lbs of spare-tire lard on his to maintain that bulk.

At 275lbs of muscle, he would have a stronger core and would be even quicker and more explosive in space without losing the size needed to bull oponents.

Davis is far more of a finesse player than a power player anyways - so the notion that he needs to stay chunky to do what he does seems to run counter to his natural skill set.

He is never going to have a problem creating space to get off his shot by using his body - he'll always be a thick, strong, compact body type. But he could improve his agility.

[LarBrd33]

no offense to anybody... but if you still are on him about his weight then your just dumb. He's worked on his strength and conditining but his size is what allows him to get inside and survive against bigger players.

At least for me it's not his weight that I have a problem with.  It's his effort and dedication.  How did he manage to gain weight after being drafted?  Did the Celtics ask him to get fatter?

So it is the weight then that bothers you?  Because you sound foolish questioning the effort and dedication of a guy who hustles his butt off 100% of the time he's on the court (notice how he dives for loose balls just as much if not more than anyone on the team and plays the passing lanes for steals!) and has dedicated himself to getting better (note his recently consistent jump shot).  Sounds like you're making up excuses to knock him on points that he doesn't deserve to be knocked, just because you don't like him. Really uncool.  

I would like to remove all props I gave Obese following game 3.   He sucks.  As I expected... if you live and die with Obese taking 20 shots a night, it's eventually going to bite you in the butt.   Nice to see him get a handful of rebounds in 50 minutes, but I will continue to say Obese sucks until Obese proves me wrong.

[Roy Hobbs]

This is why we need to re-sign Leon.  BBD can't score consistently inside.

[PosImpos]

BBD shouldn't be playing this many minutes per game...I'm sure he's just too tired out there right now.  Luckily when KG comes back that won't be a problem.

[LarBrd33]

This is why we need to re-sign Leon.  BBD can't score consistently inside.

I just think law of averages is catching up with Obese.   He hit roughly half of his uncontested wide open jumpers for the first couple games... and now he's clanging em.

[Bankshot]

BBD shouldn't be playing this many minutes per game...I'm sure he's just too tired out there right now.  Luckily when KG comes back that won't be a problem.

Agreed.  He just had a bad offensive game.  I like how people come back and say "see" after he's had a bad offensive game, like nobody every has them.   Up until now, he's been great for the Celtics.  BTW, he had a terrible offensive game, but he played well otherwise.  Pierce played a terrible game too, let's cut his minutes!

[Roy Hobbs]

BBD shouldn't be playing this many minutes per game...I'm sure he's just too tired out there right now.  Luckily when KG comes back that won't be a problem.

Agreed.  He just had a bad offensive game.  I like how people come back and say "see" after he's had a bad offensive game, like nobody every has them.   Up until now, he's been great for the Celtics.  BTW, he had a terrible offensive game, but he played well otherwise.  Pierce played a terrible game too, let's cut his minutes!

It's not necessarily just one game, though.  At least from my perspective, BBD have different strengths and weaknesses.  BBD has never been a great finisher.

[cordobes]

This is why we need to re-sign Leon.  BBD can't score consistently inside.

We don't even know if Leon can still play. BBD can do some stuff; Powe can do other things. The priority right now, after Powe's injury, is to re-sign Davis, and by far.

[Roy Hobbs]

This is why we need to re-sign Leon.  BBD can't score consistently inside.

We don't even know if Leon can still play. BBD can do some stuff; Powe can do other things. The priority right now, after Powe's injury, is to re-sign Davis, and by far.

There's no reason they can't sign them both, especially with Powe willing to play for significantly less.

Also, with the medical techniques for ACL surgeries in place today, I think the chances of Leon not playing next season are about 0%.