Author Topic: The Tony Allen Thread  (Read 13344 times)

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Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2009, 04:47:52 PM »

Offline greg683x

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If he hadnt injured his knee '05-'06 I cant help but wonder if we would still have either Delonte West or Ryan Gomes.
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Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2009, 05:05:41 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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The thing about Tony is....

OK, he's had some injuries.  OK, he's shown some flashes.

But is Tony Allen any better a basketball player than he was when he was drafted?  Is there anything he's really gotten BETTER at in what, five years?  It's not like he was drafted out of high school; he was a four-year college player.

Tony Allen still plays like a rookie; some great nights, some horrid ones.  You can accept that out of Billy Walker at this stage of his career; in his fifth year, you pretty much are what you are.  I mean, look at his numbers from his first two seasons to this year; they're almost identical, except he turns the ball over more!

No more excuses for Tony Allen!  He's a fringe rotation player.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2009, 06:04:46 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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He's had a number of years to deliver, and he's still giving us about the same thing.

We need more behind Pierce at the wing.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2009, 07:03:10 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Tony doesn't return and give this team anything for the remainder of the year and the Celtics win it all, I think Tony will be moved over the off season for exactly the reason that CoachBo talked about. Tony just isn't any better a player now than he was when the Celtics drafted him. he gives you just about what he has always given you as long as he is healthy, which is becoming less and less often.

I think the Celtics could move Scal and Tony to a team that could be looking to trim payroll at the end of the 2010 season, whether the reasoning is bacause of persuing one of the big FA's or because of financial problems. That's $5.7 million in expiring contracts for two okay players. Perhaps Phoenix moves Barbosa's contract or the Hornets move Posey's contract or OKC moves Collison's.

It could be that Tony has played his last game in a Celtics uniform.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2009, 07:21:22 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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TA is only disappointing if your expectations exceeded his performance.  Wxpectations for a 25th pick should probably be taken in perspective.  Someone earlier suggested that TA should be a starter by now.  Look at the 2004 draft -- a pretty solid draft that included 1st rounders like Okafur, Dwight Howard, Iggy, Big Al, JR and Josh Smith, Deng -- and you'll find many late first rounders in no better position than TA.  From picks 16 thru 29 including TA (#25), 5 are out of the league, 5 are starters (or starter quality) and 4 are role players.  A quick look at the 2003 draft and the breakdown is similar if not worse for the second half of the first round.  

TA is a $2.5 million role player who has shown flashes that leave many of us wishing for consistency.  But his injuries, mental fragility, and size challenges in some match-ups simply lend credence to the wisdom of his late first round selection. A good gamble who has turned out to be an average 25th pick to this point.  If TA can maintain consistency defensively, and be patient for his 'moments' on offense he can be a valuable role player for this team in the playoffs (more valuable IMO than today's Bill Walker).  Hopefully, TA can give us an edge in a game or 2 -- something he is capable of doing.  I have given up expecting him to be a consistent threat off the bench -- I'll settle for an occasional threat who can play some consistent defense.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2009, 07:37:50 PM »

Offline BballTim

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But is Tony Allen any better a basketball player than he was when he was drafted?  Is there anything he's really gotten BETTER at in what, five years?  It's not like he was drafted out of high school; he was a four-year college player.

  What's the difference, though? He's a decent backup. Whether he's better or worse than he was 5 years ago is neither here nor there. At this point, how good of a player he'll be in 5 years isn't really important. It's what he does for us this year and next.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2009, 07:38:37 PM »

Offline liam

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No Tony Allen for me thanks. I rather see Bill Walker out there. He's already better than Tony and he's like 3 inches taller.

what?

Tony Allen = 6 ft 5 inches
Bill Walker = 6 ft 6 inches

Not trying to hate on Billy Walker, because I like him... But what has he done or proved that makes him "better" than Tony Allen, besides the fact that he averaged 17 points/game in the D-League?

He is listed at 6'4, but I think that is adding an inch to his actual height.

Tony Allen is a 6'3" off guard who can't shoot and has a bad handle. He can't make it threw a game without dribbling the ball off his foot and at least 3 TO. Instead of TA he should be called TO.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2009, 07:45:03 PM »

Offline rondo987

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No Tony Allen for me thanks. I rather see Bill Walker out there. He's already better than Tony and he's like 3 inches taller.

what?

Tony Allen = 6 ft 5 inches
Bill Walker = 6 ft 6 inches

Not trying to hate on Billy Walker, because I like him... But what has he done or proved that makes him "better" than Tony Allen, besides the fact that he averaged 17 points/game in the D-League?

He is listed at 6'4, but I think that is adding an inch to his actual height.

Tony Allen is a 6'3" off guard who can't shoot and has a bad handle. He can't make it threw a game without dribbling the ball off his foot and at least 3 TO. Instead of TA he should be called TO.

He is listed at 6'4"
Bill Walker is listed at 6'6"

Two inches difference, but Tony Plays a lot bigger than his actual height. He can easily defend and score against the best 2's and 3's in the league. He does not let size effect his game. So why does it even matter?
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Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2009, 07:50:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No Tony Allen for me thanks. I rather see Bill Walker out there. He's already better than Tony and he's like 3 inches taller.

what?

Tony Allen = 6 ft 5 inches
Bill Walker = 6 ft 6 inches

Not trying to hate on Billy Walker, because I like him... But what has he done or proved that makes him "better" than Tony Allen, besides the fact that he averaged 17 points/game in the D-League?

He is listed at 6'4, but I think that is adding an inch to his actual height.

Tony Allen is a 6'3" off guard who can't shoot and has a bad handle. He can't make it threw a game without dribbling the ball off his foot and at least 3 TO. Instead of TA he should be called TO.

He is listed at 6'4"
Bill Walker is listed at 6'6"

Two inches difference, but Tony Plays a lot bigger than his actual height. He can easily defend and score against the best 2's and 3's in the league. He does not let size effect his game. So why does it even matter?
I think you're deluding yourself if you actually believe this. Tony is not good against the better 3's in the league. Heck he has trouble scoring against like size 2's, nevermind any level of competence in a 3. And as for defensively, Tony still hasn't seen a headfake that he hasn't fallen for at least a million times.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2009, 07:55:49 PM »

Offline Jon

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Let me say that I was one of Tony Allen's biggest critics last year and I was all for Ainge cutting the thread on him last offseason.  That said, the C's didn't get a suitable replacement for James Posey, and he's really the only legitimate 2/3 backup option the C's have right now.  While I'd love to believe that Bill Walker could do it, there's only a dozen or so games left in the regular season and he's not ready for playoff basketball yet.  And while the idea of Marbury/House playing the 2 with Allen sliding to the 3 is good in theory, it isn't going to be pretty against LeBron James if PP gets in foul trouble. 

So like him or hate him, I think we're going to need to have him at the very least in cases where PP gets in early foul trouble.  In cases like that, he can be very valuable as a physical defender on the likes of LeBron, Kobe, Joe Johnson and others. 

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2009, 08:50:05 PM »

Offline liam

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No Tony Allen for me thanks. I rather see Bill Walker out there. He's already better than Tony and he's like 3 inches taller.

what?

Tony Allen = 6 ft 5 inches
Bill Walker = 6 ft 6 inches

Not trying to hate on Billy Walker, because I like him... But what has he done or proved that makes him "better" than Tony Allen, besides the fact that he averaged 17 points/game in the D-League?

He is listed at 6'4, but I think that is adding an inch to his actual height.

Tony Allen is a 6'3" off guard who can't shoot and has a bad handle. He can't make it threw a game without dribbling the ball off his foot and at least 3 TO. Instead of TA he should be called TO.

He is listed at 6'4"
Bill Walker is listed at 6'6"

Two inches difference, but Tony Plays a lot bigger than his actual height. He can easily defend and score against the best 2's and 3's in the league. He does not let size effect his game. So why does it even matter?

Walker is bigger, taller, fast, smarter, better hops, better shooter, etc....

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2009, 09:08:17 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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But is Tony Allen any better a basketball player than he was when he was drafted?  Is there anything he's really gotten BETTER at in what, five years?  It's not like he was drafted out of high school; he was a four-year college player.

  What's the difference, though? He's a decent backup. Whether he's better or worse than he was 5 years ago is neither here nor there. At this point, how good of a player he'll be in 5 years isn't really important. It's what he does for us this year and next.

Because he's not good enough to be someone you can rely on.  He's too inconsistent to be a major rotation player on a GOOD team.  Some nights, he looks like he could be sixth man of the year; other nights, he looks like he belongs in the D-League.  That's unacceptable, and too many people think he's suddenly going to "get it" - it ain't happening.

If this is all you're getting from Tony - if there really IS no more potential to be unlocked - it's just not good enough.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2009, 09:23:07 PM »

Offline greg683x

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TA is only disappointing if your expectations exceeded his performance.  Wxpectations for a 25th pick should probably be taken in perspective.  Someone earlier suggested that TA should be a starter by now.  Look at the 2004 draft -- a pretty solid draft that included 1st rounders like Okafur, Dwight Howard, Iggy, Big Al, JR and Josh Smith, Deng -- and you'll find many late first rounders in no better position than TA.  From picks 16 thru 29 including TA (#25), 5 are out of the league, 5 are starters (or starter quality) and 4 are role players.  A quick look at the 2003 draft and the breakdown is similar if not worse for the second half of the first round.  

TA is a $2.5 million role player who has shown flashes that leave many of us wishing for consistency.  But his injuries, mental fragility, and size challenges in some match-ups simply lend credence to the wisdom of his late first round selection. A good gamble who has turned out to be an average 25th pick to this point.  If TA can maintain consistency defensively, and be patient for his 'moments' on offense he can be a valuable role player for this team in the playoffs (more valuable IMO than today's Bill Walker).  Hopefully, TA can give us an edge in a game or 2 -- something he is capable of doing.  I have given up expecting him to be a consistent threat off the bench -- I'll settle for an occasional threat who can play some consistent defense.

I dont understand what his position in the draft has to do with anything.  Yes you can argue that hes an average player for a 25th pick, but the fact remains is that we resigned him to play a role on this team and he has failed to do it on a consistant basis.  Looking at previous years on the team, hes always had the same problems with being consistant and healthy, so you can probably bet the farm that nothings going to change.  This team needs a player that does things that TA has proven he isnt capable of doing, so they may need to part ways.  Once again, he may not be a bad deal at 25th in the draft, but does that change the fact that we need a better player than him?  No.
Greg

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2009, 09:51:57 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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TA is only disappointing if your expectations exceeded his performance.  Wxpectations for a 25th pick should probably be taken in perspective.  Someone earlier suggested that TA should be a starter by now.  Look at the 2004 draft -- a pretty solid draft that included 1st rounders like Okafur, Dwight Howard, Iggy, Big Al, JR and Josh Smith, Deng -- and you'll find many late first rounders in no better position than TA.  From picks 16 thru 29 including TA (#25), 5 are out of the league, 5 are starters (or starter quality) and 4 are role players.  A quick look at the 2003 draft and the breakdown is similar if not worse for the second half of the first round.  

TA is a $2.5 million role player who has shown flashes that leave many of us wishing for consistency.  But his injuries, mental fragility, and size challenges in some match-ups simply lend credence to the wisdom of his late first round selection. A good gamble who has turned out to be an average 25th pick to this point.  If TA can maintain consistency defensively, and be patient for his 'moments' on offense he can be a valuable role player for this team in the playoffs (more valuable IMO than today's Bill Walker).  Hopefully, TA can give us an edge in a game or 2 -- something he is capable of doing.  I have given up expecting him to be a consistent threat off the bench -- I'll settle for an occasional threat who can play some consistent defense.

I dont understand what his position in the draft has to do with anything.  Yes you can argue that hes an average player for a 25th pick, but the fact remains is that we resigned him to play a role on this team and he has failed to do it on a consistant basis.  Looking at previous years on the team, hes always had the same problems with being consistant and healthy, so you can probably bet the farm that nothings going to change.  This team needs a player that does things that TA has proven he isnt capable of doing, so they may need to part ways.  Once again, he may not be a bad deal at 25th in the draft, but does that change the fact that we need a better player than him?  No.

I guess I wasn't arguing that we couldn't do better -- simply pointing out that level of disappointment is relative depending upon level of expectation.  True, we re-signed him to be a reliable role player and he has been unreliable -- no argument there and stated pretty clearly in my post.

Re: The Tony Allen Thread
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2009, 10:14:08 PM »

Offline BballTim

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But is Tony Allen any better a basketball player than he was when he was drafted?  Is there anything he's really gotten BETTER at in what, five years?  It's not like he was drafted out of high school; he was a four-year college player.

  What's the difference, though? He's a decent backup. Whether he's better or worse than he was 5 years ago is neither here nor there. At this point, how good of a player he'll be in 5 years isn't really important. It's what he does for us this year and next.

Because he's not good enough to be someone you can rely on.  He's too inconsistent to be a major rotation player on a GOOD team.  Some nights, he looks like he could be sixth man of the year; other nights, he looks like he belongs in the D-League.  That's unacceptable, and too many people think he's suddenly going to "get it" - it ain't happening.

If this is all you're getting from Tony - if there really IS no more potential to be unlocked - it's just not good enough.

  Last year he played about 18 minutes a game for us, and this year he's playing 19. Isn't that a major rotation player, or aren't we a GOOD team?