We NEED to resign Powe and Baby...

[Jon]

Both players look good right now, but couldn't we say that about a lot of role players that had close to two full seasons playing with the Big Three and Rajon Rondo?  What I fear is what we've seen from role players from the past that have netted big pay days looking good on contenders (Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey leap to mind): they aren't worth the money when they're asked to be the stars rather than the role players. 

What does that mean?  It means that if both players want sensible, short term deals, I say it's OK to retain both of them.  However if they want 4-6 million a year escalating over the course of 4-5 years, I say good riddance to one of them and maybe even both of them.  I don't think either is good enough to start on a contender and I certainly don't think that both of them are worth starter money.  And I don't think either is the solution for when KG retires. 

As for who to keep, I think we wait and see how the playoffs go.  If both play well to keep Mikki Moore on the bench, we may want to consider signing both.  In any case, I think who performs best in the playoffs may be the one to get the contract.  I think it's a toss up at this point.  Powe creates his own shot better, but Davis fits in with the starters better because he can create space with his shot.  Ultimately, Davis may win out since come playoff time, the starters will play so many minutes. 

[celticswillwin43]

Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey never showed any potential to be big time players. Are you serious? Caffey was a body that was it. Croshere was never more then a bench player and never expected to be. And shandon anderson was a role player his whole career. None of those guys were thought to be big time players.

[wdleehi]

Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey never showed any potential to be big time players. Are you serious? Caffey was a body that was it. Croshere was never more then a bench player and never expected to be. And shandon anderson was a role player his whole career. None of those guys were thought to be big time players.

They all had flashes like Powe and Davis.


I think it is a good comparison. 

[celticswillwin43]

Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey never showed any potential to be big time players. Are you serious? Caffey was a body that was it. Croshere was never more then a bench player and never expected to be. And shandon anderson was a role player his whole career. None of those guys were thought to be big time players.

Caffey had the skills powe and davis had? Ha

I'll admit croshere had talent but shandon anderson was a mediocre wing for his whole career with no special talent.
They all had flashes like Powe and Davis.


I think it is a good comparison. 

[wdleehi]

Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey never showed any potential to be big time players. Are you serious? Caffey was a body that was it. Croshere was never more then a bench player and never expected to be. And shandon anderson was a role player his whole career. None of those guys were thought to be big time players.

Caffey had the skills powe and davis had? Ha

I'll admit croshere had talent but shandon anderson was a mediocre wing for his whole career with no special talent.
They all had flashes like Powe and Davis.


I think it is a good comparison. 

Caffey is like a clone,  6'8  7.3, 4.4 in 19 minutes a game for his career.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=122


For players at this level, there is a fine line between solid backup and overpayed short guy.

[CoachBo]

I'd like to clean up the backup wing mess in the off-season, through the disposal of Tony Allen and the acquisition of a quality effort-based defender with some offensive skill.

I suspect that's going to require picking between Powe and Davis. I'm not ready to make that pick yet.

[MVP]

I agree with Jon's post. It's important not to overrate these guys and overpay them. Players like Davis and Powe could usually be found at the beginning of the 2nd round because they are undersized 4s. Just looking at the past few drafts, besides Leon and Baby, guys like Carl Landry, Craig Smith, Paul Milsapp, Brandon Bass, Ronny Turiaf and Ryan Gomes could be found in the 2nd round.

If I had to choose between the two, I would choose Leon. He is a more productive overall player and the possibility of him adding a jumper is much better then Davis adding a post game. Plus Leon is a proven hard worker while I could see Davis start to slack if he gets a good contract.

[zerophase]

Big Baby was a terribly inconsistent in the beginning of the season, and i have to admit i wanted him to get traded.

I always new he had range and could shoot decent, because of watching him college, and his rookie year i was very high on glen. Recently I've jumped back on the davis wagon and have convinced myself that he is a potential all star.

Big baby has several post moves, can make a short quick move off the dribble towards the basket, has great hands, finishes great around the basket for the most part, rebounds great, plays hard d despite his insufficient length, and lets not forget his deadly jump shot.

Davis playing 35-40 minutes with out the big 3 in the future getting the ball more and more. I think he could easily average 20 points and 8 rebounds, especially with rondo looking for him.

Leon Powe has all the tools to be a 6th man of the year, Though I don't think leon powe could be an all star, he will average 12 and 6 and be a great off the bench. After the big 3 are gone and these guys are 26 and 27 and molded into their games. WOW

Future Team
Pg-Rondo-Pruitt
SG-Bill Walker-Tony?
Sf-FA future draft pick
Pf-Davis-Powe
C-Perk-Powe

I really think big baby is going to be a big time player

potential all star?? i'll be [dang]ed if he becomes a permanent starter.

[celticswillwin43]

Big Baby was a terribly inconsistent in the beginning of the season, and i have to admit i wanted him to get traded.

I always new he had range and could shoot decent, because of watching him college, and his rookie year i was very high on glen. Recently I've jumped back on the davis wagon and have convinced myself that he is a potential all star.

Big baby has several post moves, can make a short quick move off the dribble towards the basket, has great hands, finishes great around the basket for the most part, rebounds great, plays hard d despite his insufficient length, and lets not forget his deadly jump shot.

Davis playing 35-40 minutes with out the big 3 in the future getting the ball more and more. I think he could easily average 20 points and 8 rebounds, especially with rondo looking for him.

Leon Powe has all the tools to be a 6th man of the year, Though I don't think leon powe could be an all star, he will average 12 and 6 and be a great off the bench. After the big 3 are gone and these guys are 26 and 27 and molded into their games. WOW

Future Team
Pg-Rondo-Pruitt
SG-Bill Walker-Tony?
Sf-FA future draft pick
Pf-Davis-Powe
C-Perk-Powe

I really think big baby is going to be a big time player

potential all star?? i'll be [dang]ed if he becomes a permanent starter.

haha ok we will see in a few years wont we, and i will be right, even if big baby is on another team.

[Jon]

Austin Croshere, Shandon Anderson, and Jason Caffey never showed any potential to be big time players. Are you serious? Caffey was a body that was it. Croshere was never more then a bench player and never expected to be. And shandon anderson was a role player his whole career. None of those guys were thought to be big time players.

They all had flashes like Powe and Davis.


I think it is a good comparison. 

Thank you.  And aside from the comparison in terms of talent and production, the other point I was going for was salary.  All ended up grossly overpaid for the production they put up as the team's 4th or 5th option.  Then as soon as the team expected them to be the 1 or 2 option on a contending team, they became a disappointment. 

All I'm saying is that if we re-sign them, it should be to bench-player money, because that's all they're ever going to be on a contending team. 

[LooseCannon]

I'm reminded a bit of Mikki Moore's situation.  He's an undrafted journeyman who put up some good numbers after thrust into the starting lineup when Krstic went down with an injury in New Jersey.  Sacramento signed him to a bigger contract and ended up buying him out.

Moore's suited to being a useful role player off the bench.  I wonder if some bad team might decide that Powe might be a 16/8 guy who can be gotten cheap.  I worry less that a team might take a similar interest in Glen Davis.  I wonder if a bad economy makes other teams more interested in being bargain hunters.  Davis and Powe showed more ability out the gate, but they could also be guys who got more minutes because of injuries, prompting someone to promise them a bigger role and more money.  It may take being put in that spot to prove they belong on the bench as valuable role players.

Powe is someone they could look at, especially considering that he had first-round talent but dropped because of injury concerns.  All it takes is for some GM to think that Powe's reconstructed knee will hold up under starter's minutes to give him a bigger contract than he can get as a Celtics bench player.  Unlike Big Baby, I can actually see Powe being a starter on a solid playoff team.

Hopefully, the Celtics will face a similar hard choice in the future with Bill Walker, another first-round talent who dropped because of multiple knee injuries.

[LooseCannon]

All I'm saying is that if we re-sign them, it should be to bench-player money, because that's all they're ever going to be on a contending team. 

Bench money gives people like Tony Allen and Eddie House somewhere in the $2.5 million range.  The Celtics have only four player over $4 million this season and only five over $3 million.  Most teams have 7-8 guys over $4 million.  I don't think the Celtics can afford to have multiple 4M guys coming off the bench.  Maybe NBA salary geeks can give a definitive answer there.

Hmmm....I wonder how much Mikki Moore would cost to bring back.

[Fafnir]

All I'm saying is that if we re-sign them, it should be to bench-player money, because that's all they're ever going to be on a contending team. 

Hmmm....I wonder how much Mikki Moore would cost to bring back.

Probably close to the league minimum.

With three max players the Celtics really can't break the bank to overpay role players. Not signing Posey to four years is a very clear signal.

[Steve Weinman]

Future Team
Pg-Rondo-Pruitt
SG-Bill Walker-Tony?
Sf-FA future draft pick
Pf-Davis-Powe
C-Perk-Powe

I really think big baby is going to be a big time player

The only thing I see that team winning is the draft lottery

I'm headed for carpal tunnel syndrome trying to offer you sufficient TP credit for that.  A good bit of amusement when I read it at a quarter to one this morning.

Thanks for succinctly making the point, cdif.

-sw

[thedawg]

What is limiting us is the wages of the "Big Three".  When Allen´s contract is up in 2010 we need to either

a)  Keep this trend and sign a star instead of Allen who most likely retires at that point. Snapping up a free agent star at that point would be great and Chris Bosh is a player I like and could come into the picture as well as many others, of course.

b)  We could easily snap up two qualified NBA players on Allen´s wages, and that would be a better option IMO. 

I cant see our rookies we got today be in our future teams but you never know.  Big Baby and Powe should be signed up in an ideal world but money makes the world spin and I would not be surprised if they accept higher offers elsewhere when they become free agents. They deserve higher wages.