Author Topic: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!  (Read 15302 times)

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Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2009, 10:38:37 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Last time I checked I couldn't find any evidence anywhere that playing a guy for 5 minutes to "see what he can do" lost anyone a game, a season or precipitated the destruction of a franchise...

A player can do a lot of damage in five minutes. 

Upon reading your first line, Roy, the first two words that popped into my head were "Tony" and "Allen."

I know, this is like dumping an industrial-sized canister of kerosene onto a moderate fire.  But I couldn't resist.

-sw
Sadly we have a lot of players who can do that. I know Tony does it far more frequently. But some games when the whole team has a case of the turnovers I just want to scream. The 7 straight turnovers against Philly still pains me.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2009, 11:12:00 AM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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When did TA turn into a seven footer?   ;D  Are we talking someone to cover Gasol?  Maybe the Lakers should worry about someone to guard Scal!  The reserve centers on the lakers are Chris Mihm and Mbunga.  I imagine BBD would guard Josh Powell(6'9") if he was at center.  I doubt if we would dig deep into our bench to guard a starter on the Lakers...and vice versa....think they would put Mbunga on Perk or KG?  Benches usually cover benches and that is why I think we are ok as we stand...but, a Posey or a Mutombo doesn't hurt, either.
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Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2009, 12:15:15 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Literally, POB would foul out in three minutes against Gasol.  POB is one of the physically weakest centers in the NBA, and Gasol is skilled in the post.  He'd simply back down POB repeatedly.

I'd rather ask Rondo to guard Gasol if my only other alternative was POB.

Give Gasol three minutes with Paddy on him and there'd be nothing left of the poor fellow but the jersey and shorts.

I'd rather go 4 on 5.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2009, 12:19:02 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Last time I checked I couldn't find any evidence anywhere that playing a guy for 5 minutes to "see what he can do" lost anyone a game, a season or precipitated the destruction of a franchise...

A player can do a lot of damage in five minutes. 

Upon reading your first line, Roy, the first two words that popped into my head were "Tony" and "Allen."

I know, this is like dumping an industrial-sized canister of kerosene onto a moderate fire.  But I couldn't resist.

-sw

Drat you, Steve. Stealing my material.

Paddy couldn't last five minutes against Marc Gasol, let alone Pau.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2009, 12:29:49 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Last time I checked I couldn't find any evidence anywhere that playing a guy for 5 minutes to "see what he can do" lost anyone a game, a season or precipitated the destruction of a franchise...

A player can do a lot of damage in five minutes. 

Upon reading your first line, Roy, the first two words that popped into my head were "Tony" and "Allen."

I know, this is like dumping an industrial-sized canister of kerosene onto a moderate fire.  But I couldn't resist.

-sw

Drat you, Steve. Stealing my material.


Apologies, Coach.  That one's a two-way street, so I figured I had to return the favor at some point.   ;D

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2009, 02:53:39 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Ok, so a guy is working, comes in and plays some decent minutes, shows a little improvement and does some good things and then you reward that by stiffing him at any cost on minutes ( and I'm not just talking about letting him play in the Lakers game, I understand why he didn't play in that game. I'm talking about the day to day marathon of the regular season). Perkins was a walking disaster for 3 years but you know, we had to keep playing him to get him "past" his deficiencies in practice and "on the floor". that's called player developement. Think Courtney Lee in Orlando hasn't stucnk it up plenty off an on all season. Or Oden in Portland, guy looks like an eigth grade player in some games. Much better in others.

And don't give this we're now a championship team and we can't develope players the same way. Just because you're competing for a title doesn't mean you don't still develope young players at the same time. You know, maybe giving O'Bryant 5-10 minuts early on, especially since we have no legit back up center, might result in "more" wins than less. Why? Maybe Perk and KG are 5-10 minutes more rested down the stretch of games.

And don't give me he can lose you the game in the second quarter either. On that vein, how many games then have KG, Pierce and Ray Allen lost in the 1st and second quarters over the last two years when they've come out and completely stunk it up in the first half. Answer...alot of games where they are just dialing it in, thinking they can show up and win. Then, like alot of games last year, the bench had to come and and bail their butts out. I guess we should've have benched them for it. So, much like it is predicted POB will lose us games in the second quarter, I Guess we can say the proof for that line of thinking lies with the documented evidence of the three hall of famers on our team and their horrid intermittent first and second quarter starts since they've been here...when they look like crap...like all players, nobody is stud every day, including KG, Pierce and Ray Allen.

While we're at it, because TAllen is such a disaster, why don't we just bench him, and POB, Ice both of them because they blow...then let's play Pierce, Ray Allen, Perk and KG all 48 minutes a night.

Look, if we had even Scott Pollard or PJ Brown on the bench I wouldn't engage in this argument, it would be pointless. You'd continue to develope him more in practice, shoot for next year. The fact is, we have no length after Perk and KG and as hard as Scal, Powe and baby work, they don't bring the length POB has. And it's not just he's tall..he also "is starting to do some nice things in spurts"

We don't have something better than POB behind Perk right now as far as height goes. We don't have anything better than TA right now ( read no Posey). We have no Posey, PJ or other...right now...(hopefully Ainge changes that in the next 21 days).

You use what you have.

I'd be alot, lot more worried about keeping KG, PP and Ray fresh and rested for the playoffs by stealing/finding minutes of rest for them during the season by using POB, TAllen and Pruitt and even Walker for that matter for small 3-5, 5-7 minute spurts of playing time, mixed in with the starters, than I would be about whether POB, TA, Pruitt or Walker are going to ruin our 2009 championship aspiration in 5 minutes time

And exhausted KG, PP and Ray will assure of of that failure.

You use what have, be optimistic and you might find the playres develope and contribute a bit more the more comfortable they get.

You cna usually tell immediately whetehr a player is "in it" when he gets on the court, or not. If he's not, you yank him and try again the next game.     

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2009, 03:35:28 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Gasol does not "back down" anyone, he is an opportunist, he gets by because people rotate to kobe, losing there man....Gasol is a taller anderson varajo....gasol is soft and we all know that. POB can stuff him..... They are saying the same thing right now on Celtics tv....!

I try to give the benefit of the doubt to our newer posters, but you obviously haven't watched Gasol play a lot, have you?  What do you credit his pre-Kobe success to, then?  Throughout his career, he has routinely shots around 55% on shots in the post (excluding dunks and tips, which push his percentage well over 60%).

What about deductions for bad facial hair? THat should drop his true shooting to like 25%.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2009, 04:44:54 PM »

Offline footey

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The catch 22 for POB is that he has to prove himself in practice to get more minutes, and rarely does this team practice.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2009, 08:02:31 AM »

Offline cordobes

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You do not like experiments..what about starting Scal......BBD shooting all the time...? Also, Gasol is soft...I maybe new here, but hardly new to basketball. I know a soft player when I see one. Gasol is a Dirk Nowitski/Varajo......See the way Haslem from Miami shut nowitski down a few years back in the playoffs, some East coast physical play. Barcley backed people down, Shaq.....Gasol, hahaha, come on...! Everyone pulls over, out of position to "help" on Kobe, leaving  Gasol to get those cheesey dunks. Then also, he shoots those outside 6-1o footers over usually shorter players, or that hook if no one puts a body on him.....what game did you watch?

And you also prefer POB to Scal? Nice to meet you, Mr Payton.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2009, 08:46:40 AM »

Offline MBz

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There's a difference between Perk 3 years ago and POB now.  The difference is the Celtics were TRASH 3 years ago.  We were in rebuilding mode.  If we lost games from playing the young guys then it wasn't a big deal.  Hell, we were trying to lose games at points.  Now we're contenders, we don't want to lose home court to the Cavs or the Magic, ultimately thats what playing POB and letting him and the other two young guys develop will do.
do it

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2009, 11:09:56 AM »

Offline Chris

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There's a difference between Perk 3 years ago and POB now.  The difference is the Celtics were TRASH 3 years ago.  We were in rebuilding mode.  If we lost games from playing the young guys then it wasn't a big deal.  Hell, we were trying to lose games at points.  Now we're contenders, we don't want to lose home court to the Cavs or the Magic, ultimately thats what playing POB and letting him and the other two young guys develop will do.

Well, the other difference is skillset.  Perk was a MUCH better defensive player who understood the rotations (he may have been one of the only ones on the team who actually rotated correctly), while POB is a much better offensive player.

Unfortunately for POB, defense is what gets you minutes on a team like the C's.

I can tell you with no uncertainty that Perk from 3 years ago would absolutely be seeing regular minutes on this team right now.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:14:32 PM by Chris »

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2009, 12:13:36 PM »

Offline wahz

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If all we can get at this point is a long big who can defend in the post, rebound a little, and who isn't a turnovermachine on offense, we'd take it right??. I just don't know why DA doesn't get someone on the roster. Even Scot Pollard can do this right?

I am dreaming that PJ was waiting for today to jump on our roster. But there are actually a few choices and it just seems like DA and Doc think Baby and Powe would be better. What if Kg isn't hurt but is in foul tropuble and can't be as aggressive in the lane. Even then we need a long guy off the bench. Its not just a luxury item.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2009, 12:17:55 PM »

Offline Chris

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If all we can get at this point is a long big who can defend in the post, rebound a little, and who isn't a turnovermachine on offense, we'd take it right??. I just don't know why DA doesn't get someone on the roster. Even Scot Pollard can do this right?

I am dreaming that PJ was waiting for today to jump on our roster. But there are actually a few choices and it just seems like DA and Doc think Baby and Powe would be better. What if Kg isn't hurt but is in foul tropuble and can't be as aggressive in the lane. Even then we need a long guy off the bench. Its not just a luxury item.

I agree that it is something they need.  And there are some options that are available right now, and will be available in 3 weeks as well (Pollard and Doleac come to mind).  But before the C's decide to go with one of those "6 foul" big guys, they are waiting to see if they can get a higher quality one.  If no one shakes free by March 1st, then I think you will see Danny make a move for one of those other guys for insurance...but for the moment there is no rush.

Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2009, 12:22:34 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Literally, POB would foul out in three minutes against Gasol.  POB is one of the physically weakest centers in the NBA, and Gasol is skilled in the post.  He'd simply back down POB repeatedly.

I'd rather ask Rondo to guard Gasol if my only other alternative was POB.

How did you determine that, literally, Professor Hobbs?

By watching how easy it is for scrubs to back down POB.  If the garbage men of the NBA out-muscle POB, then I'm pretty sure one of the best post players in the NBA wouldn't have much trouble.

POB commits about 1.2 fouls every 5 minutes, mostly in garbage time. So you have literally calculated that he will foul at a rate 5 times as frequently by guarding Pau Gasol.  Hmm.  Guess your opinion of Gasol is higher, and of POB is lower, than mine.

I am puzzled by the extent to which posters (including Mr. Hobbs, whom I honestly hold in the highest esteem) work so hard to make a case for not playing a guy just to see how it works. I see so many arguments as to why it would be a mistake.  Does anyone honestly feel that O'Bryant has been given a legit shot?  What is the harm in trying it out??

Dikembe is no longer an option.  And continuing to rely on the Baby Powe tandem is not going to get us to the finals, never mind win the championship.

Do something, besides saying "it won't work." Or "relax, we are going to be fine as is."

do you honestly think 1.5 fouls per 5 minutes against third stringers in garbage time is a good ratio to use to defend him?

 i would say you could reasonably put that up to 2 per 5 minutes against non-scrubs (like gasol, who i hate but is a stud) rather easily, so 4-5 fouls per ten minutes on the floor is not unreasoanble, and thats awful for an NBA player.

how many times do we have to hear the same things about POB, from two cities and his college coach, before start to say "hey, ya know what, mabey he's just not that driven and not that compatent on defense"

The POb support arguments remind me ALOT of the GG arguments "super potential, he's going to get it now that we've cut him loose and someone gives him a chance!!"

how's that working out for minnsota, houston, and now dallas?

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Re: Too bad we don't have a 7 footer on the bench to cover Gasol..!
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2009, 12:58:42 PM »

Offline MBz

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Also with POB, it's not like he put up amazing numbers in college.  He had a good tournament his sophomore year.  He used it to his advantage and he hopped in the draft and took the money.  Kind of similar to the kandiman.
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