Is Joe Dumars Overrated

[wdleehi]

I'm not completely sold on "Ainge's genius". A lot of the good things Danny has done fell into his lap from being in the right place at the right time. Outside of Allen and Garnett, when did Ainge make a trade where you said, "wow, that was a great move for us."


Ainge has been the loser of most of the trades he's made.

Really?  How so? 

Trading for Rondo?
Turning Welch into a 1st?
Helping other teams make trades to pick up extra 1sts?

All helped build this team.

[shookones99]

I'm not completely sold on "Ainge's genius". A lot of the good things Danny has done fell into his lap from being in the right place at the right time. Outside of Allen and Garnett, when did Ainge make a trade where you said, "wow, that was a great move for us."


Ainge has been the loser of most of the trades he's made.

I have always thought that every move he's made has been part of a bigger plan.  It all started with the Raef trade.    Raef has a 4 year contract.  Over those next 3 years (until Raef was expiring) he would pick up good young players to trade around Raef for a disgruntled superstar.

He just got lucky that KG wanted out at the time that he did.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

[shookones99]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

haha good argument.   

[Lucky17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

[BballTim]

I'm not completely sold on "Ainge's genius". A lot of the good things Danny has done fell into his lap from being in the right place at the right time. Outside of Allen and Garnett, when did Ainge make a trade where you said, "wow, that was a great move for us."


Ainge has been the loser of most of the trades he's made.

  If people had known what Danny had in mind when he traded for Theo's contract they would have thought it was a great move. Trading Welsch for a 1st rounder was a great move. Trading for the pick that he got Rondo with was a great move for us. Trading Mihm and Jones for Payton and a #1 was a good deal. He's also made a lot of great draft picks.

  And it's just plain silly to claim that the good things that Ainge has done just fell into his lap. Why didn't those things just fall into the laps of other teams. As long as you completely disregard the fact that Ainge a) was in better position to make those moves than almost every other team in the league, b) that he was in that position because of moves he'd made in previous years and c) Ainge had us in such great shape that we could pick up 2 all-star players without giving up our best player or 2 of our 3 best prospects then it would seem like luck.

[BballTim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

  Yi was also super-hyped but the top teams managed to resist him. Dumars traded away Darko and someone else (and, I think, let Okhur go for free the year before) in order to have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace and then didn't re-sign Wallace. That pretty much closed their window.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

Rodney Stuckey? please,He could've had dwyane wade...And rodney stuckey isnt as good as people think as far as im concerned, and is a big reason for the struggles and a big reason they traded the heart and soul of the team and now have bad chemistry.

Had all the positions covered? I dont know, carmelo anthony with tayshaun coming off the bench sounds pretty good to me

Sheed can play center, bosh alonside him wouldnt have been better than what they currently have/had?

I also find it funny how Pisons fans rant about "they wouldnt have won anything with billups staying" really? um I dont know if you'd be saying that if they had kept Chauncey. He was hurt last year in the ECF, and rodney stuckey backing up billups sounds better to me than whatever is going on now

detroit is a mess, to dismantle a contending team for the hopes of 2010 to try and get one of the guys you should've originally drafted is moronic

[Lucky17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

  Yi was also super-hyped but the top teams managed to resist him. Dumars traded away Darko and someone else (and, I think, let Okhur go for free the year before) in order to have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace and then didn't re-sign Wallace. That pretty much closed their window.

Dumars was smart to let Ben go. He's a shell of his former self. Would you have paid him 4 years, $60 million for his production now?

[Lucky17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

Rodney Stuckey? please,He could've had dwyane wade...And rodney stuckey isnt as good as people think as far as im concerned, and is a big reason for the struggles and a big reason they traded the heart and soul of the team and now have bad chemistry.

Had all the positions covered? I dont know, carmelo anthony with tayshaun coming off the bench sounds pretty good to me

Sheed can play center, bosh alonside him wouldnt have been better than what they currently have/had?

I also find it funny how Pisons fans rant about "they wouldnt have won anything with billups staying" really? um I dont know if you'd be saying that if they had kept Chauncey. He was hurt last year in the ECF, and rodney stuckey backing up billups sounds better to me than whatever is going on now

detroit is a mess, to dismantle a contending team for the hopes of 2010 to try and get one of the guys you should've originally drafted is moronic

You've got the luxury of hindsight. You can look through the drafts for the last ten years and call every GM an idiot for passing up on someone (Ginobili was a 2nd round pick, for instance).

[Who]

The Allen Iverson trade was pure brilliance. It can and likely will set up Detroit as a perennial contender for another 6-7 years.

Joe Dumars is a superb general manager. However, he is not infallible.

[Lucky17]

The Allen Iverson trade was pure brilliance. It can and likely will set up Detroit as a perennial contender for another 6-7 years.

Joe Dumars is a superb general manager. However, he is not infallible.

Agreed. I'm not sure why he extended Rip Hamilton's contract another 3 years beyond 2009-10 (although I heard that last year was only partially guaranteed).

[BballTim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

  Yi was also super-hyped but the top teams managed to resist him. Dumars traded away Darko and someone else (and, I think, let Okhur go for free the year before) in order to have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace and then didn't re-sign Wallace. That pretty much closed their window.

Dumars was smart to let Ben go. He's a shell of his former self. Would you have paid him 4 years, $60 million for his production now?

  If he didn't want to pay him then he shouldn't have made moves based on paying him. And, no, I wouldn't have paid him, but considering what he contributed to Detroit and what he's contributing to Cleveland he's probably a better value that the 4 year $25M Posey's getting and Ainge is getting skewered for not paying him.

[Lucky17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

  Yi was also super-hyped but the top teams managed to resist him. Dumars traded away Darko and someone else (and, I think, let Okhur go for free the year before) in order to have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace and then didn't re-sign Wallace. That pretty much closed their window.

Dumars was smart to let Ben go. He's a shell of his former self. Would you have paid him 4 years, $60 million for his production now?

  If he didn't want to pay him then he shouldn't have made moves based on paying him. And, no, I wouldn't have paid him, but considering what he contributed to Detroit and what he's contributing to Cleveland he's probably a better value that the 4 year $25M Posey's getting and Ainge is getting skewered for not paying him.

Dumars did make Ben an offer (4 yrs, $48 mil). Ben elected to go to the Bulls for more money.

[BudweiserCeltic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Draft

Yes

Milicic was superhyped coming into that draft. Dumars addressed his team's need for a skilled big man by taking the universally-regarded best big prospect out there. If Dumars was fooled, everyone was.

He recovered somewhat by trading Milicic for the pick that became Rodney Stuckey.

Dumars is a good GM. People think his plan was to trade Billups for Iverson. It wasn't, as others have pointed out here.

  Yi was also super-hyped but the top teams managed to resist him. Dumars traded away Darko and someone else (and, I think, let Okhur go for free the year before) in order to have enough money to re-sign Ben Wallace and then didn't re-sign Wallace. That pretty much closed their window.

Dumars was smart to let Ben go. He's a shell of his former self. Would you have paid him 4 years, $60 million for his production now?

  If he didn't want to pay him then he shouldn't have made moves based on paying him. And, no, I wouldn't have paid him, but considering what he contributed to Detroit and what he's contributing to Cleveland he's probably a better value that the 4 year $25M Posey's getting and Ainge is getting skewered for not paying him.

Dumars did make Ben an offer (4 yrs, $48 mil). Ben elected to go to the Bulls for more money.

And what a great move by the Bulls that turned out to be.