Suggestions for Doc: Help the C's Win a Game

[Jaycelt]

Yeah, don't listen to Bankshot's third suggestion. Defense wins games it's what this team was built around and Rondo and Perk are two of the better defenders at their position in the league. This team needs stops and they need better offensive efficiency.

If that is indeed true, Rondo being one of the better defenders at his position, perhaps someone should remind Rondo of that fact.  His defense lately has been abysmal.  He can't keep anyone in front of him and that causes our entire defense to go into scramble mode.
I think that Rondo has been overrated by the majority of Celtics fans all this season and it started to go to his head.
Ever since people started talking about him for the all-star game his play has gotten measurably worse.
There's more to defense than poking the ball away after your man has blown by you or gambling off your man for steals.
Rondo needs to screw his head on straight and start playing team ball again.

[Bankshot]

Yeah, don't listen to Bankshot's third suggestion. Defense wins games it's what this team was built around and Rondo and Perk are two of the better defenders at their position in the league. This team needs stops and they need better offensive efficiency.

If that is indeed true, Rondo being one of the better defenders at his position, perhaps someone should remind Rondo of that fact.  His defense lately has been abysmal.  He can't keep anyone in front of him and that causes our entire defense to go into scramble mode.
I think that Rondo has been overrated by the majority of Celtics fans all this season and it started to go to his head.
Ever since people started talking about him for the all-star game his play has gotten measurably worse.
There's more to defense than poking the ball away after your man has blown by you or gambling off your man for steals.
Rondo needs to screw his head on straight and start playing team ball again.

That's what I was talking about.  On the nights when Rondo is off and killing us, like last night, play Gabe!  I wasn't talking about doing this permanently.  Rondo is too inconsistent and with the current losing streak the Celtics can't afford to let him find his way while killing the team, especially not when we have another option.  Doc did the same thing to Ray last year when he struggled mightily. He sat him and played Posey.

[celts55]

Yeah, don't listen to Bankshot's third suggestion. Defense wins games it's what this team was built around and Rondo and Perk are two of the better defenders at their position in the league. This team needs stops and they need better offensive efficiency.

They need to run more sets, complete offensive sets, late in games and desist with the isos, one pass or no pass dribble drives, and overall ball hogging and stagnation that has been this team's offense late in games.

- Do not allow Ray or Paul to take the ball up with less than 6 minutes left in the game. They then tend to do nothing more than look for their shot. Whenever they bring up the ball late, this offense resembles last year's second team offense with Sam I Am running the show. It's bad and ineffective.

- Stop with the one pass feed in to KG who then attempts a move. Ball movement and moving without the ball is the key and this team has stopped doing that late in games. KG has also all but stopped passing the ball out of the low post late in games.
- Try quickening the pace fast breaking more late in games as slowing down Rondo late takes him completely out of the game. Give him the green light to push it fast up the court and look for an opening. Make the other team have to sprint back on defense. If nothing else comes of it maybe you'll tire the other team out a bit by having them sprint back on defense.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. While there are problems on the defense I couldn't help but notice that the ball stops wit Garrnet. Last year he was passing to cutters, Perk, or kicking the ball out on a regular basis, this year, not so much. But to the honest, I don't think it's all on him. I also don't see the other guys cutting near as much. Eveyone seems to stand around and watch KG make his move. This team really needs to get back to moving the ball and moving themselves.

[nickagneta]

Yeah, don't listen to Bankshot's third suggestion. Defense wins games it's what this team was built around and Rondo and Perk are two of the better defenders at their position in the league. This team needs stops and they need better offensive efficiency.

If that is indeed true, Rondo being one of the better defenders at his position, perhaps someone should remind Rondo of that fact.  His defense lately has been abysmal.  He can't keep anyone in front of him and that causes our entire defense to go into scramble mode.
I think that Rondo has been overrated by the majority of Celtics fans all this season and it started to go to his head.
Ever since people started talking about him for the all-star game his play has gotten measurably worse.
There's more to defense than poking the ball away after your man has blown by you or gambling off your man for steals.
Rondo needs to screw his head on straight and start playing team ball again.

That's what I was talking about.  On the nights when Rondo is off and killing us, like last night, play Gabe!  I wasn't talking about doing this permanently.  Rondo is too inconsistent and with the current losing streak the Celtics can't afford to let him find his way while killing the team, especially not when we have another option.  Doc did the same thing to Ray last year when he struggled mightily. He sat him and played Posey.

Huge difference.

Ray replaced by Posey just doesn't equal Rondo replaced by Pruitt. I think Gabe will be a decnt player one day. But he isn't now. Rondo is immensely better than Pruitt even on bad nights.

The goal here is not to win every single game it's to create a system that come June will be the best for this team. Doc belives having his best on the floor late is what matters most to win close games. It's a philosphy that Red lived by. Putting Pruitt, arguably your 11th best player in simply because Rondo is struggling a bit is not going to happen. That would be looked upon as a full fledged benching when the team needed him most.

Doc is not going to do that and I agree with this approach. So we lost 6 of 8. So freaking what. Is the goal to win every game now or 16 in the playoffs? Let Rondo know that although he is struggling, and believe me Rondo not only knows he  is struggling but that it is also killing him inside, he is still your man and although he had a bad game you still believe he has what it takes to turn it around late and get this team a win and this team will be a lot better in the long run.

Benching him to attempt to justify to the folks on blogging boards that think they know how to coach and that you know better and then having Pruitt fail, thereby killing his confidence and then lose Rondo because he feels you have no faith in him is way to big a risk just to win one game in January.

[action781]

WHY were Powe and Baby repeatedly challenging Yao on low post isolations last night???  Yao is a very good defensive center and has 9 inches on both of them!  Neither of them could put up a shot with any reasonable chance of going in against him, yet kept going at it.  It looked pathetic, go to other options in the 2nd unit!  Terrible coaching in my opinion if they were encouraged to do so.

[CelticsWhat35]

The tired 2 of Ray and KG should be benched or rested to put it nicely, they look like geezers and cant hit the broad side of a barn, and boy was it funny watching KG try to actually back someone down half his size last night..now we know why he normally just goes into his predictable fade away

It was actually pretty sad watching KG fail to back down a smaller guy in the post.  I don't think he could back Rondo down in the paint.

I often wonder how dominant KG would have been throughout his career if he had bulked up another 30lbs or so.  He has incrdible moves down low but he's just so freaking weak!  He could have been a beast down there.

Hayes and Landry are beasts. KG might not be the stronget post player in the league, but lets not tear him down for failing to back those guys in - shorter post players (Big Baby, Craig Smith, Paul Millsap) make a living holding their ground in the post.

Also, it's kind of hard to back a guy like Chuck Hayes down when the officials allow him to wedge his body in at a 45 degree angle while he's defending Garnett.  Not only that, defenders constantly continue to push Garnett and box him out as he's in the act of shooting, and the refs hardly ever call it.

[CelticsWhat35]

WHY were Powe and Baby repeatedly challenging Yao on low post isolations last night???  Yao is a very good defensive center and has 9 inches on both of them!  Neither of them could put up a shot with any reasonable chance of going in against him, yet kept going at it.  It looked pathetic, go to other options in the 2nd unit!  Terrible coaching in my opinion if they were encouraged to do so.

I agree those were bad decisions.  I wouldn't really blame the coaching for that, because there didn't seem to be many instances where the team cleared out a side and dumped it down to either one of them with Yao defending.  It seemed to be more like broken plays where they took it upon themselves to do it.  The plays where the ball was dumped to Davis from penentration and he went strong to the basket were fine.  He got fouled a couple times because Yao wasn't in good position.  But going straight one on one against Yao is not a good idea, especially if he's got a foot on you.

[winsomme]

1.  Keep using 2 starters with the bench.  He's done it the last two games and the bench has performed better as a result.  He should not go away from this if possible.

keeping two starters may mean that there is less of a drop-off as some starters rest, but like it was pointed out when we were asking why Doc was playing the starters together more for most of this season, playing the starters together less could harm their play together and result in more losses.

so, yes, the bench has played better with more starters playing with them, but we are losing games and the starting unit is less effective...

we need to switch it up a little....bring up Walker, play Pruitt more, etc...but the real thing we need to do is fill Posey's spot so we are not burning out the starters this early in the season.

the starters need a respite.

[wdleehi]

1) go to Ainge and ask for help to be placed on the bench sooner rather then later. 

[winsomme]

Yeah, don't listen to Bankshot's third suggestion. Defense wins games it's what this team was built around and Rondo and Perk are two of the better defenders at their position in the league. This team needs stops and they need better offensive efficiency.

If that is indeed true, Rondo being one of the better defenders at his position, perhaps someone should remind Rondo of that fact.  His defense lately has been abysmal.  He can't keep anyone in front of him and that causes our entire defense to go into scramble mode.
I think that Rondo has been overrated by the majority of Celtics fans all this season and it started to go to his head.
Ever since people started talking about him for the all-star game his play has gotten measurably worse.
There's more to defense than poking the ball away after your man has blown by you or gambling off your man for steals.
Rondo needs to screw his head on straight and start playing team ball again.

That's what I was talking about.  On the nights when Rondo is off and killing us, like last night, play Gabe!  I wasn't talking about doing this permanently.  Rondo is too inconsistent and with the current losing streak the Celtics can't afford to let him find his way while killing the team, especially not when we have another option.  Doc did the same thing to Ray last year when he struggled mightily. He sat him and played Posey.

Huge difference.

Ray replaced by Posey just doesn't equal Rondo replaced by Pruitt. I think Gabe will be a decnt player one day. But he isn't now. Rondo is immensely better than Pruitt even on bad nights.

The goal here is not to win every single game it's to create a system that come June will be the best for this team. Doc belives having his best on the floor late is what matters most to win close games. It's a philosphy that Red lived by. Putting Pruitt, arguably your 11th best player in simply because Rondo is struggling a bit is not going to happen. That would be looked upon as a full fledged benching when the team needed him most.

Doc is not going to do that and I agree with this approach. So we lost 6 of 8. So freaking what. Is the goal to win every game now or 16 in the playoffs? Let Rondo know that although he is struggling, and believe me Rondo not only knows he  is struggling but that it is also killing him inside, he is still your man and although he had a bad game you still believe he has what it takes to turn it around late and get this team a win and this team will be a lot better in the long run.

Benching him to attempt to justify to the folks on blogging boards that think they know how to coach and that you know better and then having Pruitt fail, thereby killing his confidence and then lose Rondo because he feels you have no faith in him is way to big a risk just to win one game in January.

i think generally speaking the number of losses doesn't matter and that getting primed for the playoffs is the most important aspect of the season, but i do think the reason we are losing games is directly relatable to getting ready for the playoffs.

haven't you noticed that teams are jumping our passing lanes on offense...and jumping our pick and rolls? This leads to TOs which are back breakers in close games.

to me, the reason for teams jumping our plays is that we are becoming too predictable, and one of the main reasons for that (like i've posted elsewhere) is that we have no different looks to show teams...

Scal playing the Posey role simply does not change it up from other teams perspectives....

[winsomme]

1) go to Ainge and ask for help to be placed on the bench sooner rather then later. 

from a frustration standpoint, i agree that sooner rather than later would be better, but i actually think the most important thing is to get the right addition....not sure who that is at the moment.

I honestly wonder what DA thinks is our biggest need right now and how motivated he is to get something done.

he plays everything so close to the vest that it is really hard to know what he is up to.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

The tired 2 of Ray and KG should be benched or rested to put it nicely, they look like geezers and cant hit the broad side of a barn, and boy was it funny watching KG try to actually back someone down half his size last night..now we know why he normally just goes into his predictable fade away

It was actually pretty sad watching KG fail to back down a smaller guy in the post.  I don't think he could back Rondo down in the paint.

I often wonder how dominant KG would have been throughout his career if he had bulked up another 30lbs or so.  He has incrdible moves down low but he's just so freaking weak!  He could have been a beast down there.

Hayes and Landry are beasts. KG might not be the stronget post player in the league, but lets not tear him down for failing to back those guys in - shorter post players (Big Baby, Craig Smith, Paul Millsap) make a living holding their ground in the post.

Hayes and Landry are beasts? um do the 2 combined even make a quarter of what Garnett makes? he should be able to back them down, simple as that

[crownsy]

The tired 2 of Ray and KG should be benched or rested to put it nicely, they look like geezers and cant hit the broad side of a barn, and boy was it funny watching KG try to actually back someone down half his size last night..now we know why he normally just goes into his predictable fade away

It was actually pretty sad watching KG fail to back down a smaller guy in the post.  I don't think he could back Rondo down in the paint.

I often wonder how dominant KG would have been throughout his career if he had bulked up another 30lbs or so.  He has incrdible moves down low but he's just so freaking weak!  He could have been a beast down there.

Hayes and Landry are beasts. KG might not be the stronget post player in the league, but lets not tear him down for failing to back those guys in - shorter post players (Big Baby, Craig Smith, Paul Millsap) make a living holding their ground in the post.

Hayes and Landry are beasts? um do the 2 combined even make a quarter of what Garnett makes? he should be able to back them down, simple as that

I was not aware that strength is directly related to thier salary figure. whats the dollar to pound benched ratio?

by this logic, 80% of the centers in the league are overhyped and grossly overpaid because they can't back perk down at will.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

The tired 2 of Ray and KG should be benched or rested to put it nicely, they look like geezers and cant hit the broad side of a barn, and boy was it funny watching KG try to actually back someone down half his size last night..now we know why he normally just goes into his predictable fade away

It was actually pretty sad watching KG fail to back down a smaller guy in the post.  I don't think he could back Rondo down in the paint.

I often wonder how dominant KG would have been throughout his career if he had bulked up another 30lbs or so.  He has incrdible moves down low but he's just so freaking weak!  He could have been a beast down there.

Hayes and Landry are beasts. KG might not be the stronget post player in the league, but lets not tear him down for failing to back those guys in - shorter post players (Big Baby, Craig Smith, Paul Millsap) make a living holding their ground in the post.

Hayes and Landry are beasts? um do the 2 combined even make a quarter of what Garnett makes? he should be able to back them down, simple as that

I was not aware that backing someone down is directly related to thier salary figure.

by this logic, 80% of the centers in the league are overhyped because they can't back Oden down.

You honestly dont think the highest paid player in the league should be able to dominate a 2nd string energy guy?

[crownsy]

The tired 2 of Ray and KG should be benched or rested to put it nicely, they look like geezers and cant hit the broad side of a barn, and boy was it funny watching KG try to actually back someone down half his size last night..now we know why he normally just goes into his predictable fade away

It was actually pretty sad watching KG fail to back down a smaller guy in the post.  I don't think he could back Rondo down in the paint.

I often wonder how dominant KG would have been throughout his career if he had bulked up another 30lbs or so.  He has incrdible moves down low but he's just so freaking weak!  He could have been a beast down there.

Hayes and Landry are beasts. KG might not be the stronget post player in the league, but lets not tear him down for failing to back those guys in - shorter post players (Big Baby, Craig Smith, Paul Millsap) make a living holding their ground in the post.

Hayes and Landry are beasts? um do the 2 combined even make a quarter of what Garnett makes? he should be able to back them down, simple as that

I was not aware that backing someone down is directly related to thier salary figure.

by this logic, 80% of the centers in the league are overhyped because they can't back Oden down.

You honestly dont think the highest paid player in the league should be able to dominate a 2nd string energy guy?

thats not what i said at all now is it?

It doesn't change the fact that your logic there is the most ridiculous thing ive ever read about low post strength.

According to it, we have the greatest center of all time, since he makes a measly amount compared to some of the centers who can't back him down.