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Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« on: December 29, 2008, 08:55:09 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I won't get into the history of the entire Israeli / Palestinian, but as a brief refresher:  This month, a six month cease fire between Israel and Palestinian forces in Gaze expired.  Shortly thereafter, there were a number of rocket strikes from Gaza into Israel.  Israel attacked with (thus far) three nights of air strikes, killing many of Gaza's security forces, as well as many civilians.  Israel is now in the process of mobilizing ground forces for a potential land attack on Gaza.

Israel's counter-attacks have been condemned by most of the Arab world.  Thus far, the United States has stayed generally neutral, while giving tacit support to its ally, Israel.  Israel has justified its use of extreme force as justified because this is a "war between states" (as Hamas is the majority party in the Palestinian territories.)  Hamas, of course, is both a political party and a terrorist organization, which openly advocates jihad against Israel.

What does everybody think?  While I haven't always supported Israel's tactics, and think that they should have left many of the occupied territories sooner than they did, I'm fairly sympathetic to them here.  If Palestinian forces are brazenly going to launch terrorist attacks from Gaza, retaliation is both justifiable and necessary.

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Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 01:02:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I think the civilian casualties inflicted here by Israel are pretty awful. I will also say that this: like the Pakistan/India conflict will only get worse and worse before it even begins to get better, I think the recent developments are only the tip of the crapstorm thats about to get started.

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Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 05:46:29 PM »

Offline Scott

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My two cents...

It is never good to hear of civilians getting caught in the middle, it never is.  The cost of war is always tragic.
 
In my opinion, Israel's actions are justified.  Israel is in a very difficult situation and an almost lose / lose predicament.  In an ideal world, their attacks wouldn't have caused civilian casualties but I am sure they did what they could to minimize them. If they do nothing or limit their response, the international community will back them but those rockets will keep coming.  When they go out to send a hard message that these attacks on their population will not be tolerated everyone is quick to condemn them. 

I agree with IP that these events will probably get worse before they get better.  There isn't a quick resolution to be had.  The thought of India and Pakistan going to war is terrifying. 

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 11:23:52 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Here's the way I look at this when everyone is quick to jump on Palestinian terrorists and please I understand this is ridiculous but it is just a hyperbolic example of what I am trying to say:

If after a gruesome war between the United States and Canada where the a great number of Nova Scotians were wiped out due to a nuclear attack it was decided in the peace accords to displace every person who lived within the route 128 circle of Boston and to give that land and all that was contained therein to the remaining people of Nova Scotia who no longer could live in their part of Canada because the nuclear strikes made that area inhabitable, would native Bostonians who were being kicked out of their homes and lands, some of which could have been in the name of those families for generation after generation have a problem with this? Would they possibly have to be forcibly taken from the lands? Would some people who didn't want to leave the Boston area possibly die before leaving their homes? Would people possibly fight on against the governments wishes trying to make life miserable upon the NovaScotianBostonians hoping they would leave eventually?

The world made a mistake sixty years ago and because of the religions involved they basically started a Holy War. I don't necessarily look upon the Palestinians as  being in the wrong here and haven't for a long time. These people want their homeland back and will fight this fight until the world rectifies it's mistake. Unfortunately it's probably going to come down to a terrorist nuclear explosion that kills millions in the Holy Lands before the world wakes up.

But regarding the most recent events, Hamas is bombing innocent Israelis yet when the state of Israel strikes back and kills innocent people there the Arab world becomes appalled. The duplicitous way that the Arab world looks at these things sometimes is beyond silly. They voted in a terrorist organization sworn to jihad on Israel but when Israel strikes but they want the Israeli actions condemned. Jihad is war. You attack innocents, you should expect innocents to die on your end of things and should not expect the world sympathies when the hand that strikes back strikes ten times harder.

I don't support either side in this conflict but I understand the Palestinian end a whole lot better than the Israeli end of things. Sixty years later both sides are in the right and both are in the wrong. I say the USA withdraws support of Israel to rectify the mistake they made and then get the hell out of Israeli/Palestinian politics and let them war. Whoever wins is then the government you deal with.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 01:58:43 PM »

Offline ACF

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Here's the way I look at this when everyone is quick to jump on Palestinian terrorists and please I understand this is ridiculous but it is just a hyperbolic example of what I am trying to say:

If after a gruesome war between the United States and Canada where the a great number of Nova Scotians were wiped out due to a nuclear attack it was decided in the peace accords to displace every person who lived within the route 128 circle of Boston and to give that land and all that was contained therein to the remaining people of Nova Scotia who no longer could live in their part of Canada because the nuclear strikes made that area inhabitable, would native Bostonians who were being kicked out of their homes and lands, some of which could have been in the name of those families for generation after generation have a problem with this? Would they possibly have to be forcibly taken from the lands? Would some people who didn't want to leave the Boston area possibly die before leaving their homes? Would people possibly fight on against the governments wishes trying to make life miserable upon the NovaScotianBostonians hoping they would leave eventually?

The world made a mistake sixty years ago and because of the religions involved they basically started a Holy War. I don't necessarily look upon the Palestinians as  being in the wrong here and haven't for a long time. These people want their homeland back and will fight this fight until the world rectifies it's mistake. Unfortunately it's probably going to come down to a terrorist nuclear explosion that kills millions in the Holy Lands before the world wakes up.

But regarding the most recent events, Hamas is bombing innocent Israelis yet when the state of Israel strikes back and kills innocent people there the Arab world becomes appalled. The duplicitous way that the Arab world looks at these things sometimes is beyond silly. They voted in a terrorist organization sworn to jihad on Israel but when Israel strikes but they want the Israeli actions condemned. Jihad is war. You attack innocents, you should expect innocents to die on your end of things and should not expect the world sympathies when the hand that strikes back strikes ten times harder.

I don't support either side in this conflict but I understand the Palestinian end a whole lot better than the Israeli end of things. Sixty years later both sides are in the right and both are in the wrong. I say the USA withdraws support of Israel to rectify the mistake they made and then get the hell out of Israeli/Palestinian politics and let them war. Whoever wins is then the government you deal with.

You pretty much nailed it, Nick.
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Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 02:03:31 PM »

Offline Schupac

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Here's the way I look at this when everyone is quick to jump on Palestinian terrorists and please I understand this is ridiculous but it is just a hyperbolic example of what I am trying to say:

If after a gruesome war between the United States and Canada where the a great number of Nova Scotians were wiped out due to a nuclear attack it was decided in the peace accords to displace every person who lived within the route 128 circle of Boston and to give that land and all that was contained therein to the remaining people of Nova Scotia who no longer could live in their part of Canada because the nuclear strikes made that area inhabitable, would native Bostonians who were being kicked out of their homes and lands, some of which could have been in the name of those families for generation after generation have a problem with this? Would they possibly have to be forcibly taken from the lands? Would some people who didn't want to leave the Boston area possibly die before leaving their homes? Would people possibly fight on against the governments wishes trying to make life miserable upon the NovaScotianBostonians hoping they would leave eventually?

The world made a mistake sixty years ago and because of the religions involved they basically started a Holy War. I don't necessarily look upon the Palestinians as  being in the wrong here and haven't for a long time. These people want their homeland back and will fight this fight until the world rectifies it's mistake. Unfortunately it's probably going to come down to a terrorist nuclear explosion that kills millions in the Holy Lands before the world wakes up.

But regarding the most recent events, Hamas is bombing innocent Israelis yet when the state of Israel strikes back and kills innocent people there the Arab world becomes appalled. The duplicitous way that the Arab world looks at these things sometimes is beyond silly. They voted in a terrorist organization sworn to jihad on Israel but when Israel strikes but they want the Israeli actions condemned. Jihad is war. You attack innocents, you should expect innocents to die on your end of things and should not expect the world sympathies when the hand that strikes back strikes ten times harder.

I don't support either side in this conflict but I understand the Palestinian end a whole lot better than the Israeli end of things. Sixty years later both sides are in the right and both are in the wrong. I say the USA withdraws support of Israel to rectify the mistake they made and then get the hell out of Israeli/Palestinian politics and let them war. Whoever wins is then the government you deal with.

Nick, as much as I'd like to agree with you it's a bit stickier than the U.S. being able to just up and leave.  Without the knowledge that Israel is backed by the U.S. government, most of the other more anti-semitic nations in the area would group up against Israel and we would see a massive war in the area that could possibly end in a second holocaust, and at the least would result in some serious loss of life on all sides. 

As usual when a superpower gets involved with politics half way across the world, the intricate net of co-dependencies and alliances makes it near impossible for that superpower to extricate itself without leaving a power vacuum.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 02:10:44 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Here's the way I look at this when everyone is quick to jump on Palestinian terrorists and please I understand this is ridiculous but it is just a hyperbolic example of what I am trying to say:

If after a gruesome war between the United States and Canada where the a great number of Nova Scotians were wiped out due to a nuclear attack it was decided in the peace accords to displace every person who lived within the route 128 circle of Boston and to give that land and all that was contained therein to the remaining people of Nova Scotia who no longer could live in their part of Canada because the nuclear strikes made that area inhabitable, would native Bostonians who were being kicked out of their homes and lands, some of which could have been in the name of those families for generation after generation have a problem with this? Would they possibly have to be forcibly taken from the lands? Would some people who didn't want to leave the Boston area possibly die before leaving their homes? Would people possibly fight on against the governments wishes trying to make life miserable upon the NovaScotianBostonians hoping they would leave eventually?

The world made a mistake sixty years ago and because of the religions involved they basically started a Holy War. I don't necessarily look upon the Palestinians as  being in the wrong here and haven't for a long time. These people want their homeland back and will fight this fight until the world rectifies it's mistake. Unfortunately it's probably going to come down to a terrorist nuclear explosion that kills millions in the Holy Lands before the world wakes up.

But regarding the most recent events, Hamas is bombing innocent Israelis yet when the state of Israel strikes back and kills innocent people there the Arab world becomes appalled. The duplicitous way that the Arab world looks at these things sometimes is beyond silly. They voted in a terrorist organization sworn to jihad on Israel but when Israel strikes but they want the Israeli actions condemned. Jihad is war. You attack innocents, you should expect innocents to die on your end of things and should not expect the world sympathies when the hand that strikes back strikes ten times harder.

I don't support either side in this conflict but I understand the Palestinian end a whole lot better than the Israeli end of things. Sixty years later both sides are in the right and both are in the wrong. I say the USA withdraws support of Israel to rectify the mistake they made and then get the hell out of Israeli/Palestinian politics and let them war. Whoever wins is then the government you deal with.

Nick, as much as I'd like to agree with you it's a bit stickier than the U.S. being able to just up and leave.  Without the knowledge that Israel is backed by the U.S. government, most of the other more anti-semitic nations in the area would group up against Israel and we would see a massive war in the area that could possibly end in a second holocaust, and at the least would result in some serious loss of life on all sides. 

As usual when a superpower gets involved with politics half way across the world, the intricate net of co-dependencies and alliances makes it near impossible for that superpower to extricate itself without leaving a power vacuum.
I agree. I know that because of the history of what has occurred that the US just can't walk away. But I think we do the world a great injustice to give unbridled support to Israel without at least trying to reach accords that aren't so one sided in their reach. I think by ratcheting back it's unlimited support of Israel and forcing them to sit at the table with the Palestinians and speak with an open mind, the US would go a long way towards a larger peace with the Muslim world.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 06:00:47 PM »

Offline Amonkey

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I think in the end, they're both spinning each other's cycles.  I personally don't think it makes much sense of how a war and act determined by Germany gets to affect the middle east instead of them, but that doesn't matter anymore.  Sure, Hamas was wrong of shooting rockets at Israel, but they were just retaliating to some previous doing, just like now Israel is retaliating to the rockets.  They just keep spinning each other's cycle is crazy and there's no way out of it unless one of them gets out of the cycle.
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Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 04:27:54 PM »

Offline Brendan

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The moral relativist will always say its the same. But its not. Israel is generally peaceful country that defends itself forcefully.

Eventually Israel will be over run (look at the demographics, the increased funding from Iran, and the inevitability that a nuke or three will get out) OR it will have to stop being chained by western standards.

I would recommend reading Sherman's letter to the people of Atlanta. To paraphrase: Sherman believed his was cause was righteousness and that the confederacy has provoked the war, and as such the North should wage war in as terrible of a fashion as needed to bring the war to a conclusion that advanced their righteousness. As such he told the people of Atlanta to flee the city now so he and his troops could lay it to waste, or suffer the consequences. By allowing the city to be used for an unjust cause they essentially brought it on themselves.

If Israel is to survive they'll need to eventually adopted a similar attitude (to some extent they do). Otherwise they are fight the hydra.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 05:09:15 PM »

Offline Rida

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Its good to see public opinion is swinging especially in the U.S. The U.s really has nothing to gain by sending Israel $3bn a year of tazpayer money. The cold war is over. Most countires and the UN are outraged with Israel for its actions in Gaza. 3 Israeli civilians killed vs 1,300 innocent civilians the majority of whom are women and children is a disgrace. Obama conducted an interview on Al Arabiya in an attempt to repair bonds with the Arabs who feel so hard done by in the previous administration.

This Article is all you need to really know about the Arab Israeli conflict

Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask

Wednesday, 7 January 2009


So once again, Israel has opened the gates of hell to the Palestinians. Forty civilian refugees dead in a United Nations school, three more in another. Not bad for a night's work in Gaza by the army that believes in "purity of arms". But why should we be surprised?


Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead almost all civilians, most of them children and women in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians?

What is amazing is that so many Western leaders, so many presidents and prime ministers and, I fear, so many editors and journalists, bought the old lie; that Israelis take such great care to avoid civilian casualties. "Israel makes every possible effort to avoid civilian casualties," yet another Israeli ambassador said only hours before the Gaza massacre. And every president and prime minister who repeated this mendacity as an excuse to avoid a ceasefire has the blood of last night's butchery on their hands. Had George Bush had the courage to demand an immediate ceasefire 48 hours earlier, those 40 civilians, the old and the women and children, would be alive.

What happened was not just shameful. It was a disgrace. Would war crime be too strong a description? For that is what we would call this atrocity if it had been committed by Hamas. So a war crime, I'm afraid, it was. After covering so many mass murders by the armies of the Middle East by Syrian troops, by Iraqi troops, by Iranian troops, by Israeli troops I suppose cynicism should be my reaction. But Israel claims it is fighting our war against "international terror". The Israelis claim they are fighting in Gaza for us, for our Western ideals, for our security, for our safety, by our standards. And so we are also complicit in the savagery now being visited upon Gaza.

I've reported the excuses the Israeli army has served up in the past for these outrages. Since they may well be reheated in the coming hours, here are some of them: that the Palestinians killed their own refugees, that the Palestinians dug up bodies from cemeteries and planted them in the ruins, that ultimately the Palestinians are to blame because they supported an armed faction, or because armed Palestinians deliberately used the innocent refugees as cover.

The Sabra and Chatila massacre was committed by Israel's right-wing Lebanese Phalangist allies while Israeli troops, as Israel's own commission of inquiry revealed, watched for 48 hours and did nothing. When Israel was blamed, Menachem Begin's government accused the world of a blood libel. After Israeli artillery had fired shells into the UN base at Qana in 1996, the Israelis claimed that Hizbollah gunmen were also sheltering in the base. It was a lie. The more than 1,000 dead of 2006 a war started when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on the border were simply dismissed as the responsibility of the Hizbollah. Israel claimed the bodies of children killed in a second Qana massacre may have been taken from a graveyard. It was another lie. The Marwahin massacre was never excused. The people of the village were ordered to flee, obeyed Israeli orders and were then attacked by an Israeli gunship. The refugees took their children and stood them around the truck in which they were travelling so that Israeli pilots would see they were innocents. Then the Israeli helicopter mowed them down at close range. Only two survived, by playing dead. Israel didn't even apologise.

Twelve years earlier, another Israeli helicopter attacked an ambulance carrying civilians from a neighbouring village again after they were ordered to leave by Israel and killed three children and two women. The Israelis claimed that a Hizbollah fighter was in the ambulance. It was untrue. I covered all these atrocities, I investigated them all, talked to the survivors. So did a number of my colleagues. Our fate, of course, was that most slanderous of libels: we were accused of being anti-Semitic.

And I write the following without the slightest doubt: we'll hear all these scandalous fabrications again. We'll have the Hamas-to-blame lie heaven knows, there is enough to blame them for without adding this crime and we may well have the bodies-from-the-cemetery lie and we'll almost certainly have the Hamas-was-in-the-UN-school lie and we will very definitely have the anti-Semitism lie. And our leaders will huff and puff and remind the world that Hamas originally broke the ceasefire. It didn't. Israel broke it, first on 4 November when its bombardment killed six Palestinians in Gaza and again on 17 November when another bombardment killed four more Palestinians.

Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s. And of course, when an Arab bestirs himself with unrestrained fury and takes out his incendiary, blind anger on the West, we will say it has nothing to do with us. Why do they hate us, we will ask? But let us not say we do not know the answer.


Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 05:45:17 PM »

Online nickagneta

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In fairness to the Israelis who's plight is really a lose-lose situation, it's easy to claim Israel kills Palestianian civilians but it is the Palestinians who are shooting rockets off in civilian neighborhoods and who never have the courage to wear garb that reflect that they are soldiers. It's very easy for the Arab world to claim atrocities but it is they who put their own civilians in front of them as shields as they wage war. And then when a cell of bombers are killed it's even easier to count them all as civilians when you can't distinguish the soldiers from the civilians because they are all wearing the same clothing.

I don't agree that the Palestinians are all at fault here or that their situation has been handled properly by the western world but their tactics of waging war on Israel in the unconventional manner that they do, put their civilians at risk. They are as much to blame for those dead as much as the savage way in which Israel wages war is.

Unfortunately, as Brendan said, the whole probably won't be settled until someone detonates a nuke or three. Truly a sad situation that the world as a whole should rectify before the Holy Lands become inhabitable due to severe radiation.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 07:04:47 PM »

Offline gustusias

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I really don't know where to begin, so my thoughts will come at random. The fact is the Palestinian death count has been fabricated and enlarged to 1300. The actual number of deaths are closer to 800. Masters of the craft of deceipt, the Hamas peolple will do anything in order to suck out the sympathy of western countries for their cause. ( That is another question. Their cause is still unclear.It certainly isn't to form a Palestinian state and live in peace with Israel, because the Israelis have been dieing to do just that since their state was formed in 1948 and the Arab world refused to recogmnize it and  accept an Arab state next door. Arab chestbeating, jihard, I will never give in, male superiority, religious superiority, whatever you call it, has been going on since the early part of the 20th century.)

 
The Hamas party teaches children from the age of kindergarden to hold rifles, crawl on their stomachs, wear military uniforms, hate jews, especially hate the jews. This is their future of which their fathers are so thrilled and can be so proud, to see their little three year olds shoot guns, and hate, especially hate, of course, in order to restore a homeland that never, ever was. Never.  The Turks were in  Israel for centuries and never cared a cent about the land. There was zero, nada, nothing there except death until the zionists came there.

The Hamas party deliberately stocks its amunition under the beds of civilians. In their homes they shoot rockets. They hide in the schools, hospitals, mosques. They move fro place to place in ambulances disguised as medics. They have been shooting ten cent missiles into ISRAELI CITIES FOR ABOUT EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS, and the UN does nothing. Why/? Simple.It can say nothing to a political, terrorist party. To a state it can say something, but to a party! Decisions will have no relevance and the Hamas knows this.. How many here reading this realize that before the Israelis bomb a building they actually call by telephone the home of that person. They tell him that in five minutes their home will be bombed. Get out. They will only bomb if artillery has been fired from that building or their is huge ammunition stockpiles there.Hamas soldiers deliberately hide in civilian homes and other places endangering their own population, and knowing as well that the Israelis will not harm civilians ...until now that that country has had enough. It is up to its ears with complaints from its own populace that they do nothing to protect them after daily bombings just continue and continue. Leaflets are strewn from planes. Warning is given. Their reaction is extreme! The Israeli Defense Force is the most humane defense force in the world. The Israeli soldier is born into a life knowing very well that at 18 he will be drafted and called upon to possibly die for his country. Every single male living there. They are wonderful kids, the same as the wonderful American kids that dies in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was alive at the time of the Watts riots and the shootings at Kent State University. I was  present at  conflicts between police and American students in the 60's and witnessed the American polce and soldiers enjoy the beatings and shooting of those terrible longhaired, pot smoking hippies.So let's not discredit the Israelis here at all. We Americans can be very ugly. 

The sooner the Hamas party is gone and out of Gaza the better off the world will be. However,
that is easier said than done since they are only a hand of Damascus and Tehran along with the Hesballah party in Lebanon. The small state of Israel and the entire jewish population the world over is fighting for its life against Arab exremism and it's lies. Make no mistake here who are the brave and just and who are the cowards and creeps.

Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 08:02:51 PM »

Offline carlherrera

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well said gustusias.
my point of view: i don't think israel's actions will help with the situation. i don't believe in war, period. i don't believe in any war.
now, if the world really cared about the palestinians the situation in gaza would be better by now. so yes, we (the world, the major powers, not only the US) are all hypocrits and are guilty of letting the palestinian civilians (who are the real victims) suffer.

now, there is another, unfortunate issue here to discuss. the palestinians did elect Hammas to lead them. Hammas wants to destroy israel. it does not believe in the right of a jewish state to exist. let me repeat: they don't believe in the right of israel to exist.

i think (like it was said previously) that one should always be very careful of moral relativists. you are not dealing with two groups of leaders who play by the same rules. at some point you have to make a stand: do i believe in democracy as the way i want to live or do i believe in "letting people be", even if their "be" contradicts everything i believe and stand for from a values perspective?

hammas contradicts everything i stand for and therefore i cannot support it. israel, while not perfect, usually behaves in a way that is more consistent with my values.

having said that, i don't support either one in this particular instance. i don't believe war is ever the answer (sorry to be so cheesy). the real victims here are the palestinian people who are being manipulated by the opportunistic politics of fear and hatred in the region, and WE are ALL guilty of that (if that makes any sense).

Another Israeli False Flag Operation !!!
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 09:29:39 PM »

Offline ForexPirate

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Palestinian civilians are being slaughtered.  It is an ethnic cleansing not unlike that performed by Hitler.  It is worse than you can imagine but we aren't hearing about it because of our mass media propaganda machine.

Do you know what a false flag operation is?   It is when you do something to yourself and blame someone else.  Why would the Israeli shoot mortar at themselves and then blame Hamas?

You know that Bush had been trying to invade Iran for the longest time but the American Generals were opposed to another politicians' war.   Now they are trying an end around.   

Eventually the Arab community is going to come to the rescue of the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.  When that happens, the US and its new president has obligated themselves to come to the aid of Israel and then the war that the American Generals were trying to avoid will be "on".

The book "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives" by Zbigniew Brzezinski published in 1998 stated that their objective was to invade and conquer Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Syria in that order.  It also stated that to do this a "pearl-harbor-like event" would need to be created to gain American support.   

I don't profess to know why it is necessary to control these areas but the "powers that be" have written about doing these things prior to them happening.  I have no doubt that they will continue with their plan to take Iran and Syria.  If they can't go in by direct assault claiming the usual "they have weapons of mass destruction" (nuclear capability), then I think they are going to go through the back door by getting Israel to do a false flag operation.  This slaughter of innocents will ultimately make them a target for some sort or retaliation.  This retaliation will most likely be blamed on Iran and Syria.  The US will go to the aid of Israel and World War 3 will begin. 


Re: Conflict in Israel: What's your take?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 10:29:22 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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What baloney.  How would the U.S. react if the Canadians were lobbing rockets into Detroit?

This isn't about "ethnic cleansing."  It's about alot of hopeless young Palestinian men, with no jobs, no education, no women and no booze, who have nothing better to do than fire rockets into Israel.  It's fun, and they've become high school heroes in Gaza.  It's the Arab version of Saturday Night Lights, funded by Iran.

When our high school heros stop shooting at Israel, the Israelis will stop shooting at them.




 

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