The Blazers got a steal, extremely good contract.

Indy did alright. Overpaid a little bit but they did alright. They didn't kill themselves extending their best player.

That seems like Granger was very generous with Indiana, since I would have figured he could do substantially better on the open market.  I guess he wasn't thrilled about the possibility of ending up in Memphis.

It will be interesting to see what type of deals guys get next year, as teams set themselves up for the "summer of Lebron".

The Blazers got a steal, extremely good contract.

Indy did alright. Overpaid a little bit but they did alright. They didn't kill themselves extending their best player.

I know this quote is from a little while ago, so I am not really intending to call you out, or poke fun at your statement...but care to take it back?

Granger is avg. 26 ppg, like 5 rebounds and 3.5 assists.  his deal is an absolute steal.

Webster-well he hasnt done anything yet due to the injury.

I'm not a big fan of Granger. I don't think he creates enough for his teammates offensively, and I think that will stop him from becoming a player good enough to be the best perimeter player on a contender.

That's a very good post, as always. I certainly agree shot creation for others was never one of Granger's strengths. But I also believe his passing is extremely improved this season - for example, in previous seasons it was extremely rare to see Granger driving and dishing; this one it happens somewhat regularly. Granger, IMO, seems to have a great ability to add new aspects to his game from season to season - this being his most valuable asset, I think.

Also, O'Brien likes his perimeter players to play the 1on1 and create off the dribble; I think a lot of what Granger does on the court is a consequence of that.

That'll likely force him to be the second (next to a LeBron type), or far more likely, the third best player on a title worthy side.

I agree that it's hard to envision a team winning a championship with Granger as their best player. However, who was the best player in those Miller-motorized Indiana teams? Reggie himself? I think that Granger would be a very good 2nd option for a contender and a good "Robin" to almost every "Batman" in the league.

In conjunction at being a below par creator for his teammates offensively, Granger is also a below average rebounder for a small forward.

He's not very good, especially considering his height and frame, but I don't think he's bellow average. His career rebound rate is similar to Pierce's or Butler's, for example. They always have 3 guys playing the transition, and Granger is almost always one of them; that hurts his rebounding numbers I think.

His defense is good (above average) but not elite, which means he really should be the second best defender on the wing instead of the best because it puts too much pressure on his team's other defenders.

Here, it seems you like him more than I do. Perhaps he may be an above average defender, but very slightly above average. I wholeheartedly agree Granger can't be the best wing defender on his team. This is the reason why I believe the Pacers should trade Dunleavy Jr. as soon as they get a quality offer for him.

Danny Granger only does one thing at a high level and that's score the ball.

But he's doing at an extremely high level. I think Granger could have been a jack of all trades; however, I prefer this evolution to an elite scorer.

That's why Granger's Pacers are under-performing despite his career season. That is a squad full of intelligent hard working veterans and they are a lot better than their record indicates. They are under-performing in part because Granger isn't as good as his reputation says he is.

Yes, I agree that that Indiana is a squad full of intelligent hard working veterans and they are a lot better than their record indicates. I think they're underperforming due to 2 main reasons:
- the intelligent hard working veterans have been injured or playing through injuries a lot. Dunleavy is only starting the season now; Ford has been constantly in and out; Rasho has been injured a couple of times; Daniels idem; Murphy as well. They're deep, but having to constantly change rotations and to play guys like Graham, Diener and McRoberts so much carries a price. They need to set a more tighten rotation and so far that's been impossible to do.
- they're an extremely unlucky team. The amount of close games they lost is truly bizarre. Because of their system - and the lack of a true stopper at the perimeter -  they aren't a very good team killing of games.

By the way, Mike Dunleavy is a superior offensive player than Granger because of his passing, intelligence, and movement. He does more to create for his teammates and is easier to play with because he does a better job scoring within the offense. Dunleavy also matches Granger on the backboards while playing the two guard position. I think Granger's defense tips the scales in his favour, but I also think the comparison helps show where his game is at and how these flaws (flaws for an elite player) limit him and hold him back.

I don't think that the position they play is relevant. I agree that Dunleavy's offensive game is more complete and well-rounded. But I do believe that Dunleavy has one of the most well-rounded offensive games in the entire league. The "problem" is that he's very good doing lots of things but not truly great doing a single one.

Anyway .... why I don't think the contract is a steal:

Well, the expression "steal" was obviously an hyperbole - I just wanted to give Granger some hype here because he's been scoring a lot of points. However,although we had similar positions when the contract was signed, I now think this deal is better to the Pacers than I thought at that moment - basically because I think Granger is now a better player than he was last season. I wrote during the Summer that if Granger could become a much better player if he could improve his ball-handling. And I think he did that, he became a very solid dribble penetrator - and, consequently, improving his offensive arsenal another step. He's now making 6.2 FT per 36 minutes, doubling his production just from 2 years ago and up by more than 50% from last season. And, as I wrote above, I think he has improved his play-making and passing skills as well. Therefore, while not a steal, I believe it's a very interesting contract for the Pacers - more than I expected it to be.

Good for Granger.  He has definitely taken a giant step forward this year in trying to establish himself as the face of the Pacer franchise.  Bird got rid of a lot of the trouble in Indy, & has a cornerstone piece to build that team around.

Just curious, but the year Granger was drafted, did the C's have a chance to get him?

Just think of how close we were to getting Granger in the draft and instead settled for Gerald Green.  I remember reading somewhere the Celtics would have taken Granger if Indiana passed.  Only 1 pick away...

And right after Gerald, Hakin Warrick was picked. Another pretty decent player.

Yeah, Danny kinda laid an egg that year.

Cordobes,

Rebounding - Indiana have a pair of excellent rebounding big men in Foster and Murphy, they also have another very good rebounder in Rasho Nesterovic. Their fourth big, Hibbert, is a space eating solid team rebounder in low minutes. Then they have excellent rebounding from their backcourt with TJ Ford and Marquis Daniels (combined nine a game), and also good rebounding from their top backup guard (starting now isn't he?) Jarrett Jack.

Despite all these high quality rebounding contributions Indiana remains only a slightly above average rebounding team. There are two reasons in descending order of importance for this - (1) The backup wing hasn't done enough on the glass. This is mostly Brandon Rush who's rebounding has been poor. Stephen Graham has been playing more recently and he's doing better than Rush and is comparable to Granger. (2) Danny Granger who this season has been below average on the glass. If not for these two players/roles, then the Pacers would be amongst the league's top rebounding squads.

Granger's rebounding looks solid because of the minutes he plays, but an average small forward rebounds the ball once around every six minutes. Granger is at 7.2 minutes. Now maybe this is just a poor start to the season, after all he was solid on the glass last season (6rpg in 36mpg), or maybe it's something else - (1) hoisting all those shots is lowering his effort elsewhere (2) Maybe that number is a false picture since Indy got outrebounded by two a game last year as they battled through injuries to starters Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley.

I don't know we'll see in time. Perhaps I should retract that statement and we can wait and see (happy to do so) .... but so far this season his below par rebounding is one of the main reasons why Indiana is not an elite rebounding team.

He also doesn't give you the type of boxing out that Pierce does (few do) when he's forced to rotate down and cover a larger opponent.

Anyway, I felt it deserved an explanation as to why I called him a below average rebounder.

Indiana's Injuries - Mike Dunleavy's injury has been a huge blow to the team, but even without him I expected them to keep it together better than they have. Their other injuries have all been of the small variety (2-4 games) and the types of things you see an almost every team in the league.

I thought this team should be around .500 this season. Without Mike Dunleavy they should do worse, but they're down around .350 which I think has them under-performing. A big reason why they were going to be so competitive was their across the board contributions from several players, I don't think it's right for them to fall down so far after losing their second best player.

Defense - Slightly above average is a more accurate description of Granger's defense. I agree with that description totally, they're words I've used in the past to describe Danny's defense.

Passing - I agree he has shown improvement and that is a reason for optimism. I just don't feel comfortable or confident enough in him taking the next steps forward in this area. If he does so, I'd agree fully with yall hate and say his contract is a steal.

Scoring - Granger's scoring this season has been fantastic. My favourite improvement has been his more well rounded arsenal and less reliance on that jumpshot of his, and in particular as you mentioned, his ability to get to the free throw line. (side note: learned most of those tricks from Dunleavy over the last 12 months, watch they do the same thing and Danny didn't do that in the past - good sign he can learn from his teammates.).

I want to see how his scoring is effected by playing alongside superior scorers. Currently their second best go-to option is Marquis Daniels or TJ Ford, I want to see how prolific he is when he has real scoring sidekicks. Indy's tempo and free-firing ways also helps Granger's high points per game numbers too.