How much are our young players worth when their contracts run up

[Tr1boy]

old thread but just wanted to state that its not unreasonable to believe powe and davis could get some full mle offers next season(especially powe) and rondo after next year could be in demand for 10 million a year

Without rondo the celtics have looked lost. And if we think about it after the big three retire he is liek our franchise player. I'm also suprisingly confident in his shooting which still isnt too frequent

Question thats going to arise especially next year is who do we keep, powe or davis? (i'm personally leaning towards davis and hope he takes a hometown discount for 2.5 -  3 million/year for 3 years)

[expobear]

old thread but just wanted to state that its not unreasonable to believe powe and davis could get some full mle offers next season(especially powe) and rondo after next year could be in demand for 10 million a year

Without rondo the celtics have looked lost. And if we think about it after the big three retire he is liek our franchise player. I'm also suprisingly confident in his shooting which still isnt too frequent

Question thats going to arise especially next year is who do we keep, powe or davis? (i'm personally leaning towards davis and hope he takes a hometown discount for 2.5 -  3 million/year for 3 years)

I'm not sure what Powe needs to do to develop the trust of the coaching staff.  After the Celtics get healthy again, Powe will be the 9th man again. I'd take Powe but I have a feeling Davis is the one who stays.

Powe can be a star in his own right on a weaker team....and collect more dough too!   

[BillfromBoston]

If Powe keeps playing like he has recently, there is no way he's not going to keep a healthy amount of minutes - he wasn't a "9th man" to begin with...

As far a payment - this is the off-season to get deals - MLE money isn't going to be spent very freely and certainly not for players who don't have fat resumes...

Rondo may get an extension or they may already value him as a 10-12 million per year guy, in which case they may play the market and keep him on past the QO with an understanding that they'll max him after that, who knows...

What is certain is that the economic problems of this country will be felt on the FA market this off-season, so worrying about how much the role players of this team are worth is not as concerning as it was 2 years ago.

[expobear]

If Powe keeps playing like he has recently, there is no way he's not going to keep a healthy amount of minutes - he wasn't a "9th man" to begin with...

As far a payment - this is the off-season to get deals - MLE money isn't going to be spent very freely and certainly not for players who don't have fat resumes...

Rondo may get an extension or they may already value him as a 10-12 million per year guy, in which case they may play the market and keep him on past the QO with an understanding that they'll max him after that, who knows...

What is certain is that the economic problems of this country will be felt on the FA market this off-season, so worrying about how much the role players of this team are worth is not as concerning as it was 2 years ago.

I'll defer to you on Powe's status in the pecking order, since you follow the Celtics more closely than I.  But it sure seems as though, from a minutes standpoint, Powe is about the 9th guy on the team, although he may come in sooner to spell KG or Perkins than when some of the other bench players enter the game. I also feel a lack of trust with the coaching staff.....mistakes are less tolerated with Powe than with others and I think, even with Powe, it affects his game. Powe has played great the last 4 games because he knows he is going to play without having to worry about making mistakes. Rivers has no choice but to play him.

Anyway Bill, I think your predictions about the kind of player Powe could be are certainly looking better and better each game Powe plays 30+ minutes.  He has exceeded even my expectations and I'm probably right behind you as being one of Powe's top supporters.

[Fafnir]

Powe will be one of a lot of good power forward free agents. Utah has Millsap and Boozer both coming onto the market as well.

Add into the fact that teams often are hesisitant to tie themselves up with restricted free agents, along with his modest overall season averages and he'll probably get offers around Jason Maxiell's level. Nice money, but not full MLE.

[moiso]

Leon looks awesome right now and I would hate to see him leave town.  When he's playing like this I much prefer him to Big Baby.  I was expecting this level of production right from the beginning of the year but he seemed to have regressed from how he finished last year.  It seems like every year he takes half of the year to get warmed up and playing like he can.  I wonder why that is his pattern every year.  I really expected him to average like 14 and 7 off the bench this year and I didn't expect Baby to take many of his minutes.  Keep it up Leon!

[Thruthelookingglass]

Leon looks awesome right now and I would hate to see him leave town.  When he's playing like this I much prefer him to Big Baby.  I was expecting this level of production right from the beginning of the year but he seemed to have regressed from how he finished last year.  It seems like every year he takes half of the year to get warmed up and playing like he can.  I wonder why that is his pattern every year.  I really expected him to average like 14 and 7 off the bench this year and I didn't expect Baby to take many of his minutes.  Keep it up Leon!

Hate to see our options come down to Powe v. BBD.  Even though it seems a luxury to carry two undersized PFs, they have very different strengths.  Powe is a low block specialist; BBD has a broader game and is now armed with the mid-range J that really works in our system.  Both play really hard.  Furthermore, I think both have room to improve.  My main concern between them is BBD's discipline to keep the weight off.

But we may not have that luxury.  I think many teams will be willing to overpay for one or both--their playoff and championship experience, as well as the discipline they have learned in the C's system, will be unique and very attractive in the FA market.

[expobear]

Leon looks awesome right now and I would hate to see him leave town.  When he's playing like this I much prefer him to Big Baby.  I was expecting this level of production right from the beginning of the year but he seemed to have regressed from how he finished last year.  It seems like every year he takes half of the year to get warmed up and playing like he can.  I wonder why that is his pattern every year.  I really expected him to average like 14 and 7 off the bench this year and I didn't expect Baby to take many of his minutes.  Keep it up Leon!

The up and down pattern you speak of is directly correlated to Powe's playing time. When the Celtics are at full strength and Powe messes up, Rivers doesn't hesitate to take him out. Sometimes Powe will get 20 minutes and at other times, he'll get 10. Now, with Rivers having no choice but to use Powe for 40 minutes, he is showing what he can do when he is allowed to just play, as Pierce has been recently quoted, "without having to look over his shoulder". Powe has always had this ability to score, rebound and even defend but never really been given the opportunity to display it.  Many on this board feel there aren't any minutes for Powe when KG comes back.  Well, I think it's in the best interests of the Celtics to try and find a way to utilize Powe's strengths not as a sub for KG but as part of rotation that may include KG. Again, if Powe has another couple of games like the last few in KG's absence, the Celtics may not have to worry about where to play Powe and how he fits in.    

[BillfromBoston]

There are just massive differences between playing 30+ minutes a night and playing a 15+ minute role on a team - Millsap is a great example of that.

Millsap took advantage of Boozer's injury and now has made himself a starting-caliber option for some team, maybe even Utah...but before the minutes came, he was producing at a level and in a manner similar to Maxiell, Powe,  Craig Smith, and Carl Landry...

Now, if I had posted 2 months ago that I liked Powe the best amongst that group people would have strung me up - based off the struggles Powe was perceived to be having, coupled with Millsap's production as a starter.

But give a guy more minutes with higher caliber teammates and allow him to touch the ball 20-25 times instead of 7-8 and all of a sudden you have the opportunity to create that "rhythm" that players always talk about.

No starting player or even star player shoots well or plays flawless every night, but they get the touches and the time to work through the down times - role players do not.

Powe still has to get his set jumper into his repetoire to make the next adjustment in his game - every quality low-post scorer needs to develop a shot to keep defenders honest and to avoid the double-teams in the post that eventually become automatic once a player has inside success.

Its a good step for a 3rd year player just now approaching his 3000th minute of NBA action - the more chances he gets to extend his game within a single game setting, the faster that development will occur.

We've already seen what consistent PT can do when Davis got his January minutes and started to produce at a higher level than ever before - confidence and opportunity are major factors in player success....

[Fafnir]

Leon looks awesome right now and I would hate to see him leave town.  When he's playing like this I much prefer him to Big Baby.  I was expecting this level of production right from the beginning of the year but he seemed to have regressed from how he finished last year.  It seems like every year he takes half of the year to get warmed up and playing like he can.  I wonder why that is his pattern every year.  I really expected him to average like 14 and 7 off the bench this year and I didn't expect Baby to take many of his minutes.  Keep it up Leon!

Many on this board feel there aren't any minutes for Powe when KG comes back.  Well, I think it's in the best interests of the Celtics to try and find a way to utilize Powe's strengths not as a sub for KG but as part of rotation that may include KG.

Once again how do you play him for 20 minutes when KG is back and playing his usual 36? Powe is a nice player, but he's still no where near Kevin.

Either you play Powe at the 5, which sucks against any true center, or you play Kevin at the 5. Kevin can play center for a few minutes a game sure, but not for extended stretches.

You say "find minutes" but it just isn't that simple. Plus for all of Powe's production, Kendrick Perkins is a true center who should be on an all defensive team this year. He needs to be given a healthy amount of minutes too.

[moiso]

Leon was getting decent minutes when the season began but he often looked like deer in headlights when he caught the ball.  And then he would just jump into the defender hoping for a foul.  I don't know if I buy that he relearned how to play just because of all the injuries.  The status of first big man off the bench was handed to him, and because he wasn't playing well Big Baby started getting a lot of those minutes.

[BCelts]

Leon looks awesome right now and I would hate to see him leave town.  When he's playing like this I much prefer him to Big Baby.  I was expecting this level of production right from the beginning of the year but he seemed to have regressed from how he finished last year.  It seems like every year he takes half of the year to get warmed up and playing like he can.  I wonder why that is his pattern every year.  I really expected him to average like 14 and 7 off the bench this year and I didn't expect Baby to take many of his minutes.  Keep it up Leon!

Many on this board feel there aren't any minutes for Powe when KG comes back.  Well, I think it's in the best interests of the Celtics to try and find a way to utilize Powe's strengths not as a sub for KG but as part of rotation that may include KG.

Once again how do you play him for 20 minutes when KG is back and playing his usual 36? Powe is a nice player, but he's still no where near Kevin.

Either you play Powe at the 5, which sucks against any true center, or you play Kevin at the 5. Kevin can play center for a few minutes a game sure, but not for extended stretches.

You say "find minutes" but it just isn't that simple. Plus for all of Powe's production, Kendrick Perkins is a true center who should be on an all defensive team this year. He needs to be given a healthy amount of minutes too.

You have a good point about finding minutes in general.  When the playoffs start or towards the end of the season, unless there is foul trouble Perk and KG are going to play about 37 per game, leaving 22 minutes for other bigs.  Leon will have to share those remaining minutes with BBD and, to a lesser extent from what I have seen, Mikki Moore.  However, you also discuss problems with matchups with Leon becaue,if I read your argument right, you think that Leon cannot play with KG.  However, I think you ignore that Leon will be playing against second-line guys on the other team.  He can guard the back-up centers.  They typically do not need much guarding.

[Tr1boy]

can't discount powes efforts a couple of games ago helping us win but you don't have to be a genius that with big baby starting we might have not lost the past few games we might have.

Big baby iq, strentgh and jump shot no doubt is > powes aggressive play, better hops at the offensive end . (slight edge also for bbd in the defensive end = footspeed, excellent at boxing out)

at this point unless big babys shot goes stone cold i think the ainge will keep him . (we just can't really keep both players next season)

pruitt is a goner also

next years bench


Moore (hope to resign him to something reasonable for a couple of years)

bbd (3 years 9 million dollar deal) and scal

Bill walker

Giddens

Eddie house/pg 2nd round pick or vet

[expobear]

can't discount powes efforts a couple of games ago helping us win but you don't have to be a genius that with big baby starting we might have not lost the past few games we might have.

Big baby iq, strentgh and jump shot no doubt is > powes aggressive play, better hops at the offensive end . (slight edge also for bbd in the defensive end = footspeed, excellent at boxing out)

at this point unless big babys shot goes stone cold i think the ainge will keep him . (we just can't really keep both players next season)

pruitt is a goner also

next years bench


Moore (hope to resign him to something reasonable for a couple of years)

bbd (3 years 9 million dollar deal) and scal

Bill walker

Giddens

Eddie house/pg 2nd round pick or vet

It appears that either Powe or Davis needs to go in order for both to be able to develop as a quality NBA player. Unfortunately, only one will be able to do it as a Celtic while the other will hopefully get more playing time with another team.  The luxury of having two cheap bigs on the bench will run out next year when both will demand bigger pay days and more playing time.

[guava_wrench]

can't discount powes efforts a couple of games ago helping us win but you don't have to be a genius that with big baby starting we might have not lost the past few games we might have.

Big baby iq, strentgh and jump shot no doubt is > powes aggressive play, better hops at the offensive end . (slight edge also for bbd in the defensive end = footspeed, excellent at boxing out)

at this point unless big babys shot goes stone cold i think the ainge will keep him . (we just can't really keep both players next season)

pruitt is a goner also

next years bench


Moore (hope to resign him to something reasonable for a couple of years)

bbd (3 years 9 million dollar deal) and scal

Bill walker

Giddens

Eddie house/pg 2nd round pick or vet

You know Moore is not young, right?

I wouldn't sign Moore to more than one year unless he shows he's a perfect fit in our system. It's a buyers market these days.

I agree about Pruitt. I also look forward to seeing how Walker will develop next year. He seems like a sure fire guy to stick in the NBA with his strength, effort, and athleticism. I can't wait to see him in sync with Rondo.