Back up small forward...

[cordobes]

I would prefer a rotation that always sees Paul Pierce or Ray Allen playing the 3 and keeping Tony Allen at his natural 2 position. As I stated elsewhere, Tony at the three with House/Rondo/Pruitt manning the 1 and 2 is a scary thought to me.

I think the separation of the SG and SF thing is overdone.  The majority of the teams in the league field "wings" some are bigger, some are smaller.  Allen is able to match up with many of them, just like Pierce and Ray are.  I think every game Doc is going to be playing matchups, just like he did last year with Powe and Davis.  If we are playing a small team, he will likely use the small lineup.  If they are a big team, he will use the big lineup.  And sometimes, he will throw out a lineup that he thinks the other team will have trouble matching up with.

100% correct. It's not only overdone, it's absolutely immaterial. Except the Lakers, NBA teams play 1 guard 2 wings backcourts most of time. I think we will suffer from the lack of size on the defensive end though, and just suck it up. Not a very big deal, but it'll be one of the weaknesses of this team. Who is your big lineup?

[Atzar]

It'll be interesting to see how Doc handles this.  At 6'3" 215, TA is going to be giving up a lot of size to most 3's in the league.  He can defend a slasher as well as anybody, but anybody with a good jumpshot and a high release is going to eat him alive.  

That leaves one of the rookies to see some significant time.  Honestly, I'd take Giddens over Walker at this point.  He seems to be a better defender, and I honestly don't think Walker brings any more to the table offensively than Giddens right now (better FT% aside).  I think his offensive contribution has been somewhat exaggerated because of the Theo Ratliff facial.  In general, both of the rookies have a tendency to just sit in the corner and take themselves out of the play on offense.

[ManUp]

How many small forwards actually make use of their size on offense? 3...4 maybe? Off the top of my head i'd say Lebron, Pierce, Carmelo, and Odom are some of the few Small Forwards who use there size the others tend to play like two guards.

The only two big small forwards we're likely to face in the play-offs are Lebron and maybe Odom. We didn't have anyone other than Pierce to slow down Lebron (Posey didn't do well against him) last year we did it with team defense and it'll be the same this year. Odom isn't the type to use his size on smaller players so he doesn't worry me all that much, and the Laker's will probably still use him as PF. I wouldn't want Tony on him defensively, but then again it'd be a mismatch both ways.

...Lets not forget our backup small forward probably won't be defending starting quality small forwards for more than 10-12 minutes a game. I doubt that our team defense allows teams to try and pick on a defender if a size mismatch comes up.

[no kidding]

Go get Brandon Wallace from whatever overseas team he's playing for.  He's a strong rebounding 6'9 small forward who's agile and hard working enough to be Pierce's defensive backup against tall quick forwards.

If he's signed, he might never see a minute on the court. All the same, he might be a very effective and inexpensive insurance policy. Last year he was introduced to the Celtics system, and opened the season on the squad.  He then played in the Development league for the Celtics until he was jettisoned so they could sign P.J. Brown.

[Chris]

I would prefer a rotation that always sees Paul Pierce or Ray Allen playing the 3 and keeping Tony Allen at his natural 2 position. As I stated elsewhere, Tony at the three with House/Rondo/Pruitt manning the 1 and 2 is a scary thought to me.

I think the separation of the SG and SF thing is overdone.  The majority of the teams in the league field "wings" some are bigger, some are smaller.  Allen is able to match up with many of them, just like Pierce and Ray are.  I think every game Doc is going to be playing matchups, just like he did last year with Powe and Davis.  If we are playing a small team, he will likely use the small lineup.  If they are a big team, he will use the big lineup.  And sometimes, he will throw out a lineup that he thinks the other team will have trouble matching up with.

100% correct. It's not only overdone, it's absolutely immaterial. Except the Lakers, NBA teams play 1 guard 2 wings backcourts most of time. I think we will suffer from the lack of size on the defensive end though, and just suck it up. Not a very big deal, but it'll be one of the weaknesses of this team. Who is your big lineup?

I also think its important to note that in the Celtics defensive system, it minimizes the effect of having undersized guys.  They give so much support from the weakside and the big men, that it is very tough for wings to use their height against us.  If they go into the post, or drive to the hoop, there is always supposed to be someone there to cut them off, and challenge the shot, so it doesn't really matter if they can get over Allen. 

The only way it would really effect the C's would be if they start pulling up over the undersized defender, however, as Tony as shown in the past, and Ray Allen showed last year against Kobe, you can be just as effective, if not moreso at stopping a shooter by getting in close on him, and not giving him space to set his feet, rather than just getting a hand in his face.  This is what they did to both Kobe and Lebron last year, and it completely threw them out of rhythm, despite the fact they could rise above the defenders.  Tony Allen is completely capable of this. 

Of course the bigger issue is whether Tony can keep his head in the game...but his size is not that much of an issue.

[2short]

I'd say this years roster means PP won't play any time at sg.  So what is he going to average for minutes?  I think we can get by just fine with Walker, Scal and Tony Allen in situations for other sf minutes.  I can handle Scal for 5-10 minutes a game.  Walker will develop, I personally like a lot of what I see from him.  TA is playing great and at sf all you need is a true pf and center in when he's in that posistin. ie. no small ball needed doc!

[Section301]

I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with the backup SF situation, HOWEVER for those that are saying TA is not a proven rotation player - he played 18 minutes a game last year for the world champs.  While he is not the ideal choice to slot into the SF position as a backup, he is capable of making regular season contributions to the team as a rotational player.  I'm on board with the question of whether his size will be a detriment at the job, but let's not dismiss the man as a useless scrub when he has already shown he can be a rotation player. 

That said, I think that for the 15 minutes a game that Pierce is not in (which will usually be a time when they are facing the opponent's second string anyway) during the regular season, the Celtics will be more than able to survive with what they have.  Again, not every team has an unstoppable SF who will be out on the floor the whole time Pierce is resting.  The goal for the second unit is to maintain and possibly extend the lead established by the starters, not shut down the other team's bench and go on a 15-0 run.  With the personnel they have, that is an achievable goal (the maintaining thing, not the 15-0 run part).  In the playoffs (and against key regular season opponents), Pierce will be playing substantially more minutes, so the backup question is reduced to someone to fill the void long enough for him to get a breather. 

Remember, the goal is to make the playoffs with home court without exhausting the starters, at which point the rotation gets cut back and the starters play the lion's share of the minutes.  Will they need 66 wins again to get home court?  Probably not.  So they can give up maybe 6-8 wins and still be ready for the playoff run. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

I really have little concerns with Tony guarding small forwards, mainly because he does a good job in staying in front of people. I'm not that concerned with LeBron for this reason... I really don't care if he's stronger and bigger or not. I'm more concerned with SF's that like to get the ball in the post and score. Very few do this, especially at a decent manner. Very few small forwards can take advantage over Allen's lack of height.

If LeBron starts catching the ball from the post, or in the midrange area, and then simply turning and shooting over Allen, then you have to be worried, but this is not his usual game... and even with that Tony has some jump in him and long arms to contest shots.

And even with that, someone like LeBron won't get single coverage. We always put 3 people between him and the basket last year during the playoffs.

[wdleehi]

How many SF are out there that the Celtics need to worry about Pierce guarding the whole game in the playoffs?



The only one I can think of is Lebron.  


Now there are other good SFs out there, but none of them are the physical offensive weapon that needs a Pierce and Posey to take turns guarding.  




So there is no rush to get a backup SF.  


There should be more of a rush to get a physical banger to protect KG if Perkins gets hurt.  

[D Dub]

I think we got the guy already, both to backup Pierce and who can fill in at the 4 in a pinch. 

Brian Scalabrine

Say what you want about him, but he is an above average defender in this league.  He knows the system as good as anyone and he can guard both 3's and 4's.  And don't leave him open to double Pierce or KG, Scal will knock down that outside shot when given the opportunity. 

I'm calling it right now, career year for Scal in 08'-09'

[crownsy]

I think we got the guy already, both to backup Pierce and who can fill in at the 4 in a pinch. 

Brian Scalabrine

Say what you want about him, but he is an above average defender in this league.  He knows the system as good as anyone and he can guard both 3's and 4's.  And don't leave him open to double Pierce or KG, Scal will knock down that outside shot when given the opportunity. 

I'm calling it right now, career year for Scal in 08'-09'

still love to know where this "above average defender" thing comes from considering he gets toasted in the limited minutes he gets, but hopefully im wrong and scal helps us out.

[POBstuntin]

I think we got the guy already, both to backup Pierce and who can fill in at the 4 in a pinch. 

Brian Scalabrine

Say what you want about him, but he is an above average defender in this league.  He knows the system as good as anyone and he can guard both 3's and 4's.  And don't leave him open to double Pierce or KG, Scal will knock down that outside shot when given the opportunity. 

I'm calling it right now, career year for Scal in 08'-09'

still love to know where this "above average defender" thing comes from considering he gets toasted in the limited minutes he gets, but hopefully im wrong and scal helps us out.

It would be great if this works out because the reason I think that we are going to miss the Pose is the end of the game lineup.  We were great at the end of the fourth when we'd play KG at the 5 and posey at the 4, it allowed us to have 5 (4.5 with rondo) shooters on the court, spread the court and let Pierce go to work or KG get single teams in the post.  If was good enough to do this it would be great but I really dont think he is and without this line up Im a little scared for crunch time.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think we got the guy already, both to backup Pierce and who can fill in at the 4 in a pinch. 

Brian Scalabrine

Say what you want about him, but he is an above average defender in this league.  He knows the system as good as anyone and he can guard both 3's and 4's.  And don't leave him open to double Pierce or KG, Scal will knock down that outside shot when given the opportunity. 

I'm calling it right now, career year for Scal in 08'-09'

still love to know where this "above average defender" thing comes from considering he gets toasted in the limited minutes he gets, but hopefully im wrong and scal helps us out.

It would be great if this works out because the reason I think that we are going to miss the Pose is the end of the game lineup.  We were great at the end of the fourth when we'd play KG at the 5 and posey at the 4, it allowed us to have 5 (4.5 with rondo) shooters on the court, spread the court and let Pierce go to work or KG get single teams in the post.  If was good enough to do this it would be great but I really dont think he is and without this line up Im a little scared for crunch time.

Posey at the 4 wasn't that good of a lineup, or you don't remember how many times people were crying over small ball throughout the season? Of all the things that we shouldn't miss, is Posey at the 4.

With that said, having a 4 handy that can knock down shots is a good thing to have, but not a necessity.

[ScoobyDoo]

If that is the case and Scal is the answer, say hello to Walter Mccarty numero dos as far as I'm concerned. Look I love both guys, great 11th, 12th men but it hurts watching them play.

Also, if this was a possible scenario once Posey was lost and Scal might have to play more minutes at the 3, then why didn't he drop about 10-15 pounds to pick up some speed...

By the way, on the subject of weight...how is it possible that a guy in the NBA can seemingly gain about 5 pounds a year...every year? How is that even possible?

[Brickowski]

I wonder what it would take to get a player like Thabo Sefolosha or Ronnie Brewer.

And here's a name for you: Justin Reed.  He wouldn't cost much, and he can defend.