Cassell Says He Will Sign Contract With Celtics Next Week

[Chris]

Teams without good jump-shooters, with range on their shot, end up taking more jump-shots. And then you have bad jump-shooters taking them.

That's why a team like Roy Hobb's Blazers wouldn't win more than 15 games in a NBA season.

Generally, fans have an unreasonable preference towards "attacking the rim", "dunks", "low post", etc. Aesthetically, they may have a point. 

But Coaches have to win games...

I think you need to have a balance to be successful, but in general, I agree.

Many people seem to think that the only high percentage shot is a layup.  However, when you look at the best teams in the league, they are filled with good shooters.  This is because an open jumpshot for many players in the league is nearly as high percentage a shot as an open shot in the post.  And the real key is that an open jumpshot is a higher percentage shot than a challenged layup, and it is MUCH easier to get an open jumpshot in the NBA, than an unchallenged layup.  Therefore the teams with good jumpshooters (Celtics, Spurs, Pistons, Hornets to name a few) succeed because they know they can get a higher number of high percentage shots than those team who rely much more on layups for "high percentage shots" (the teams that come immediately to mind here are charlotte and Philly).

[cordobes]

Teams without good jump-shooters, with range on their shot, end up taking more jump-shots. And then you have bad jump-shooters taking them.

That's why a team like Roy Hobb's Blazers wouldn't win more than 15 games in a NBA season.

Generally, fans have an unreasonable preference towards "attacking the rim", "dunks", "low post", etc. Aesthetically, they may have a point. 

But Coaches have to win games...

I think you need to have a balance to be successful, but in general, I agree.

Many people seem to think that the only high percentage shot is a layup.  However, when you look at the best teams in the league, they are filled with good shooters.  This is because an open jumpshot for many players in the league is nearly as high percentage a shot as an open shot in the post.  And the real key is that an open jumpshot is a higher percentage shot than a challenged layup, and it is MUCH easier to get an open jumpshot in the NBA, than an unchallenged layup.  Therefore the teams with good jumpshooters (Celtics, Spurs, Pistons, Hornets to name a few) succeed because they know they can get a higher number of high percentage shots than those team who rely much more on layups for "high percentage shots" (the teams that come immediately to mind here are charlotte and Philly).

Yeps. More than that: teams who rely heavily on "high-percentage shots" are too easy to defend.

You can have a team filled with the best slashers and the best low-post players in the game. The Greatest of All Times if you will. You still won't win.

The opponent will simply use a 2-3 zone defence. There's only ONE WAY of beating a 2-3: good outside shooting. Doesn't matter how good are your players doing other things. Even the team with the worse defence on the league will get stop after stop after stop.

Highly-percentage shots are fool's gold many times because they cause turnovers.

And turnovers are the most underrated stat in basketball, from the fans point of view. In a game with 2 teams with a 50%TS, each turnover costs you 2 points. And generally teams have a better shooting % after turnovers from the other team. Turning over the ball is basically giving the other team a free basket.

That's why limiting turnovers, taking good care of the ball and having creating proper space is so important. Winning teams generally do this.

ps - case in point: you hear a lot things like "Bowen was so lucky to play with Duncan and having all those open shots from the corner" or "Jordan made Kerr look so good, all he had to do was taking wide open shots". But it works both ways: without Kerr and Bowen being threats from the outside, Duncan and Jordan wouldn't be so effective. And you rarely, if ever, hear that. Of course Jordan helped Kerr more than the opposite and it's not even close, but there's always a trade-off.

[BballTim]

And our post players are, who again? 

Even a casual observer can see that the Celtics are a jump shooting team.
 
Just because Rondo cannot or will not post up, doesn’t mean we can’t use someone who can.

  We're not a jump shooting team. We're middle of the pack in percentage of inside shots.

  http://www.82games.com/FGTEAM11.HTM

If that stats says anything, it tells us that the rest of the league is full of jump shooters and an inside game is rare indeed when only 1 out of 3 shots are from inside.  Does it say how many inside shots are offensive put backs on jumpshots?

You don't need stats to know that Boston is a jump shooting team. Just watch a couple games where the C's play against other contenders in the half court. You'll see a heck of a lot of jumpers.

  We weren't worse than other contenders. We shot 68% outside jumpers in the playoffs (up from 66%). Cleveland was 71%, Detroit was 72% and LA was only 63% although I'd guess they shot more jump shots vs the Celts than they did vs Denver or Utah. Also, SA was 71% and NO was 71%. Orlando and Utah were more inside teams, shooting 59% and 62% of jumpshots respectively.

[EJPLAYA]

Not trying to be incendiary, or maybe I am, but how do all of you "In Danny We Trust" guys feel about this positive move? I mean, you have to admit, Cassell has more talent than any other player that Danny has brought aboard this off season. You have to be loving this, right? Or are you going to start being negative?

I figure it would be prudent to revisit nick's post here considering Danny has no confirmed that Sam for once was not actually just running his mouth. All I can say is it's a shame. If I'm Eddie House right now I have be incensed by this move. Eddie turned down better offers from other team to stay here because he liked it here and figured he proved himself in the Finals when they went back to him and they won. Now he's gonna get his job stolen from him again. And what's worse is because Sam looks to shoot first, second and third when he's on the court I wonder how well the new guys are really gonna get incorporated into the offense when he's on the floor. First move Danny's made this offseason that I disagree with.

The backup PG job was never firmly his, and if he thought so, then he clearly wasn't paying attention.  Doc had been trying to not use House as a PG since last preseason, and it continued throughout the season and postseason.  He only played PG when they have no other choice.

The C's resigned him as a shooter off the bench.  Not a PG, but a basketball player.  I think all along they planned on playing him a good deal of minutes at the SG position, and that doesn't change if Cassell comes back.  All that changes is that Pruitt might be squeezed out.

A shooter off the bench to spread the floor for Ray, Paul and Kevin.  Which means he won't be playing SG.

We used him as Rondo's primary backup last year, and I believe the same is expected of him this year.  He has a much more difficult time guarding opposing 2 guards, while he excels at defending the one.   

One of our better crunch time lineups last year featured him at pg.  Yes he can play the 2 if need be, but Danny brought him in to be a backup pg.

Sam hasn't EXCELLED at guarding the one in years. He is slow as molasses and the huge majority of pg's blow right past him. This causes other players to have to rotate to pick his man up which leaves open theirs. If you want to throw out Sam's positives, which there are a couple, don't be making stuff up.

Positives:

He is a decent "bring the ball up under pressure" pg.
He is obviously liked by his teammates and coaches.
He can get hot at times.
He can back smaller guards down on the block.

Negatives:

He is shoot first, second, and third before looking to pass the ball.
He does not push the ball up the floor, rather looks to hard dribble the thing up with his back turned and head down.
He can shoot you right out of a game much more often than shoot you in one.
He rarely posts anyone up anymore because he doesn't let the play develop.
He is extremely slow footed these days and can't play decent defense.
He stalls the offense.

All in all, there really isn't a very good reason to bring this guy back. I am willing to bet that House didn't know this was likely to happen prior to signing up with us again. I think it is all in Gabe's hands to prove he can be a decent third guard so they will cut Sam. If not, and Doc is willing to have Sam sit, then maybe it isn't the end of the world. Pretty close though...

I can't argue with much of this, except one thing...this is based on a very small sample size compared to the rest of his career.  You described what Sam was perfectly when he was on the C's last year.  However, he was not nearly as bad earlier in the year on the Clippers, and has showed over the years that his style of play can be incredibly successful on a playoff team.

So the question is, was he really as cooked at the end of last year as he looked, or was the combination of injuries, and a new system to learn without much time what contributed to him looking like he aged about 5 years in a 2 month period?

I don't know the answer to this, because I think either could be the case.  But what I do know is the Cassell that he has been for nearly his entire career up until the last few months of last year (yes, even the one who averaged nearly 13 pts, 5 assists to 2 turnovers in 26 minutes over 38 games with LA last year), would be a huge addition to this team.

Maybe he is Eric Gagne, who looked good on the Rangers before taking a nose dive that doesn't look like it is going to be changing after being traded.  Or maybe he will be able to right the ship, by coming in healthy, and having a full training camp to learn his teammates and the system better.

I think it certainly is worth a shot.  And since it is a vet minimum deal (reportedly), if he proves to be the same guy he was at the end of last year, then they just let him go.

Are you forgetting the game earlier in the season where we played them and Rondo torched him so badly that he committed that nasty flagrant foul and was ejected from the game to save himself further embarrassment?! I would venture a guess to say that Sam has been getting dramatically worse the last few years and due to the fact that the Clips are never televised most people haven't seen it. Stats show a pretty steady decline in categories like steals, ppg, mpg, assists, and to a lesser extent other categories the past 3-4 yrs. I think these point to a decline having started to occur the last few years and not just since arriving in Boston.

As a 37 year old basketball player, I can promise you that in a period of a couple years you can see your quickness, jumping ability, and overall athleticism drop pretty dramatically. As I also continue to play against younger players the gap in my game and guys I used to wipe off the floor is closing fast. I think Sam is seeing the same thing. If he was playing against all 35 year olds he probably would still seem to have more game.

[Chris]

Not trying to be incendiary, or maybe I am, but how do all of you "In Danny We Trust" guys feel about this positive move? I mean, you have to admit, Cassell has more talent than any other player that Danny has brought aboard this off season. You have to be loving this, right? Or are you going to start being negative?

I figure it would be prudent to revisit nick's post here considering Danny has no confirmed that Sam for once was not actually just running his mouth. All I can say is it's a shame. If I'm Eddie House right now I have be incensed by this move. Eddie turned down better offers from other team to stay here because he liked it here and figured he proved himself in the Finals when they went back to him and they won. Now he's gonna get his job stolen from him again. And what's worse is because Sam looks to shoot first, second and third when he's on the court I wonder how well the new guys are really gonna get incorporated into the offense when he's on the floor. First move Danny's made this offseason that I disagree with.

The backup PG job was never firmly his, and if he thought so, then he clearly wasn't paying attention.  Doc had been trying to not use House as a PG since last preseason, and it continued throughout the season and postseason.  He only played PG when they have no other choice.

The C's resigned him as a shooter off the bench.  Not a PG, but a basketball player.  I think all along they planned on playing him a good deal of minutes at the SG position, and that doesn't change if Cassell comes back.  All that changes is that Pruitt might be squeezed out.

A shooter off the bench to spread the floor for Ray, Paul and Kevin.  Which means he won't be playing SG.

We used him as Rondo's primary backup last year, and I believe the same is expected of him this year.  He has a much more difficult time guarding opposing 2 guards, while he excels at defending the one.   

One of our better crunch time lineups last year featured him at pg.  Yes he can play the 2 if need be, but Danny brought him in to be a backup pg.

Sam hasn't EXCELLED at guarding the one in years. He is slow as molasses and the huge majority of pg's blow right past him. This causes other players to have to rotate to pick his man up which leaves open theirs. If you want to throw out Sam's positives, which there are a couple, don't be making stuff up.

Positives:

He is a decent "bring the ball up under pressure" pg.
He is obviously liked by his teammates and coaches.
He can get hot at times.
He can back smaller guards down on the block.

Negatives:

He is shoot first, second, and third before looking to pass the ball.
He does not push the ball up the floor, rather looks to hard dribble the thing up with his back turned and head down.
He can shoot you right out of a game much more often than shoot you in one.
He rarely posts anyone up anymore because he doesn't let the play develop.
He is extremely slow footed these days and can't play decent defense.
He stalls the offense.

All in all, there really isn't a very good reason to bring this guy back. I am willing to bet that House didn't know this was likely to happen prior to signing up with us again. I think it is all in Gabe's hands to prove he can be a decent third guard so they will cut Sam. If not, and Doc is willing to have Sam sit, then maybe it isn't the end of the world. Pretty close though...

I can't argue with much of this, except one thing...this is based on a very small sample size compared to the rest of his career.  You described what Sam was perfectly when he was on the C's last year.  However, he was not nearly as bad earlier in the year on the Clippers, and has showed over the years that his style of play can be incredibly successful on a playoff team.

So the question is, was he really as cooked at the end of last year as he looked, or was the combination of injuries, and a new system to learn without much time what contributed to him looking like he aged about 5 years in a 2 month period?

I don't know the answer to this, because I think either could be the case.  But what I do know is the Cassell that he has been for nearly his entire career up until the last few months of last year (yes, even the one who averaged nearly 13 pts, 5 assists to 2 turnovers in 26 minutes over 38 games with LA last year), would be a huge addition to this team.

Maybe he is Eric Gagne, who looked good on the Rangers before taking a nose dive that doesn't look like it is going to be changing after being traded.  Or maybe he will be able to right the ship, by coming in healthy, and having a full training camp to learn his teammates and the system better.

I think it certainly is worth a shot.  And since it is a vet minimum deal (reportedly), if he proves to be the same guy he was at the end of last year, then they just let him go.

Are you forgetting the game earlier in the season where we played them and Rondo torched him so badly that he committed that nasty flagrant foul and was ejected from the game to save himself further embarrassment?! I would venture a guess to say that Sam has been getting dramatically worse the last few years and due to the fact that the Clips are never televised most people haven't seen it. Stats show a pretty steady decline in categories like steals, ppg, mpg, assists, and to a lesser extent other categories the past 3-4 yrs. I think these point to a decline having started to occur the last few years and not just since arriving in Boston.

As a 37 year old basketball player, I can promise you that in a period of a couple years you can see your quickness, jumping ability, and overall athleticism drop pretty dramatically. As I also continue to play against younger players the gap in my game and guys I used to wipe off the floor is closing fast. I think Sam is seeing the same thing. If he was playing against all 35 year olds he probably would still seem to have more game.

Rondo did that to a lot of other guys who I would like to see on this team, so that doesn't mean much. 

Yes, Sam is a horrible one on one defensive player, and has been for several years now (including years where he helped lead teams deeper in the playoffs than they have ever been). 

The fact is At the beginning of last year Cassell was still an extremely effective offensive player, and he still has enough smarts to be able to hold his own defensively in short minutes when surrounded with good defenders.

[KevinGamble]

If so then I am for this, but if we have to cut a young player with potential, then I just don't get this move.

Young player with potential? Get over it. Who are we, the Timberwolves? And what young players with potential are we talking about? Future all-stars? Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, POB? Hardly. Nobody can tell if they'll be in the league in 3/4 years. Decent chance they won't.

I don't like loosing Pruitt or Walker before we know what we got with them.

The team will know that after the training camp.

good reply, cordobes,

but we've seen some very fine prospects flourish elsewhere, (johnson, billups, etc.)  don't you feel like the Celtics must devote a significant portion of their team to farming young talent?  Red Sox did it a lot, and the NFL less so.  I just think the NBA has room for this, because even though we used trades to get to the championship, the contracts we have make it difficult to sign any FAs to complete our team.  I would rather see players we develop fill prominant roles.

Therefore, I am reticent to accept this Sam deal, unless it is part of other moves to come.  I remember a lot of disbelief in the ray allen trade until "the other shoe dropped."  As a close fan of the team, I still have no idea what Ainge's plans look like until they are long done, so lets hope this makes sense in June!

Go Celts!

[EJPLAYA]

Not trying to be incendiary, or maybe I am, but how do all of you "In Danny We Trust" guys feel about this positive move? I mean, you have to admit, Cassell has more talent than any other player that Danny has brought aboard this off season. You have to be loving this, right? Or are you going to start being negative?

I figure it would be prudent to revisit nick's post here considering Danny has no confirmed that Sam for once was not actually just running his mouth. All I can say is it's a shame. If I'm Eddie House right now I have be incensed by this move. Eddie turned down better offers from other team to stay here because he liked it here and figured he proved himself in the Finals when they went back to him and they won. Now he's gonna get his job stolen from him again. And what's worse is because Sam looks to shoot first, second and third when he's on the court I wonder how well the new guys are really gonna get incorporated into the offense when he's on the floor. First move Danny's made this offseason that I disagree with.

The backup PG job was never firmly his, and if he thought so, then he clearly wasn't paying attention.  Doc had been trying to not use House as a PG since last preseason, and it continued throughout the season and postseason.  He only played PG when they have no other choice.

The C's resigned him as a shooter off the bench.  Not a PG, but a basketball player.  I think all along they planned on playing him a good deal of minutes at the SG position, and that doesn't change if Cassell comes back.  All that changes is that Pruitt might be squeezed out.

A shooter off the bench to spread the floor for Ray, Paul and Kevin.  Which means he won't be playing SG.

We used him as Rondo's primary backup last year, and I believe the same is expected of him this year.  He has a much more difficult time guarding opposing 2 guards, while he excels at defending the one.   

One of our better crunch time lineups last year featured him at pg.  Yes he can play the 2 if need be, but Danny brought him in to be a backup pg.

Sam hasn't EXCELLED at guarding the one in years. He is slow as molasses and the huge majority of pg's blow right past him. This causes other players to have to rotate to pick his man up which leaves open theirs. If you want to throw out Sam's positives, which there are a couple, don't be making stuff up.

Positives:

He is a decent "bring the ball up under pressure" pg.
He is obviously liked by his teammates and coaches.
He can get hot at times.
He can back smaller guards down on the block.

Negatives:

He is shoot first, second, and third before looking to pass the ball.
He does not push the ball up the floor, rather looks to hard dribble the thing up with his back turned and head down.
He can shoot you right out of a game much more often than shoot you in one.
He rarely posts anyone up anymore because he doesn't let the play develop.
He is extremely slow footed these days and can't play decent defense.
He stalls the offense.

All in all, there really isn't a very good reason to bring this guy back. I am willing to bet that House didn't know this was likely to happen prior to signing up with us again. I think it is all in Gabe's hands to prove he can be a decent third guard so they will cut Sam. If not, and Doc is willing to have Sam sit, then maybe it isn't the end of the world. Pretty close though...

I can't argue with much of this, except one thing...this is based on a very small sample size compared to the rest of his career.  You described what Sam was perfectly when he was on the C's last year.  However, he was not nearly as bad earlier in the year on the Clippers, and has showed over the years that his style of play can be incredibly successful on a playoff team.

So the question is, was he really as cooked at the end of last year as he looked, or was the combination of injuries, and a new system to learn without much time what contributed to him looking like he aged about 5 years in a 2 month period?

I don't know the answer to this, because I think either could be the case.  But what I do know is the Cassell that he has been for nearly his entire career up until the last few months of last year (yes, even the one who averaged nearly 13 pts, 5 assists to 2 turnovers in 26 minutes over 38 games with LA last year), would be a huge addition to this team.

Maybe he is Eric Gagne, who looked good on the Rangers before taking a nose dive that doesn't look like it is going to be changing after being traded.  Or maybe he will be able to right the ship, by coming in healthy, and having a full training camp to learn his teammates and the system better.

I think it certainly is worth a shot.  And since it is a vet minimum deal (reportedly), if he proves to be the same guy he was at the end of last year, then they just let him go.

Are you forgetting the game earlier in the season where we played them and Rondo torched him so badly that he committed that nasty flagrant foul and was ejected from the game to save himself further embarrassment?! I would venture a guess to say that Sam has been getting dramatically worse the last few years and due to the fact that the Clips are never televised most people haven't seen it. Stats show a pretty steady decline in categories like steals, ppg, mpg, assists, and to a lesser extent other categories the past 3-4 yrs. I think these point to a decline having started to occur the last few years and not just since arriving in Boston.

As a 37 year old basketball player, I can promise you that in a period of a couple years you can see your quickness, jumping ability, and overall athleticism drop pretty dramatically. As I also continue to play against younger players the gap in my game and guys I used to wipe off the floor is closing fast. I think Sam is seeing the same thing. If he was playing against all 35 year olds he probably would still seem to have more game.

Rondo did that to a lot of other guys who I would like to see on this team, so that doesn't mean much. 

Yes, Sam is a horrible one on one defensive player, and has been for several years now (including years where he helped lead teams deeper in the playoffs than they have ever been). 

The fact is At the beginning of last year Cassell was still an extremely effective offensive player, and he still has enough smarts to be able to hold his own defensively in short minutes when surrounded with good defenders.

His dramatic drop in steals also show he isn't a very good team defender either, so now what you're left with is a streak shooter who isn't a very effective shooter anymore. You can twist it all you want, but you have a ball hog that is more concerned with his own stats than with the team. His public complaining last year in spite of Boston's success proves that. The reason he had a few good offensive games early in the season with the Clips, is the same reason that TA had some very high offensive outputs the previous year when Pierce went down. There was no one else to take the shots. In our system he can't be shooting 15 times a game, so his offensive output isn't ever going to be there. The very small positives that he brings to the table are far outweighed with all those defensive negatives. We are a defense first team. Sam is a selfish shooter and no defense player at this stage. Plain and simple.

[Chris]

Not trying to be incendiary, or maybe I am, but how do all of you "In Danny We Trust" guys feel about this positive move? I mean, you have to admit, Cassell has more talent than any other player that Danny has brought aboard this off season. You have to be loving this, right? Or are you going to start being negative?

I figure it would be prudent to revisit nick's post here considering Danny has no confirmed that Sam for once was not actually just running his mouth. All I can say is it's a shame. If I'm Eddie House right now I have be incensed by this move. Eddie turned down better offers from other team to stay here because he liked it here and figured he proved himself in the Finals when they went back to him and they won. Now he's gonna get his job stolen from him again. And what's worse is because Sam looks to shoot first, second and third when he's on the court I wonder how well the new guys are really gonna get incorporated into the offense when he's on the floor. First move Danny's made this offseason that I disagree with.

The backup PG job was never firmly his, and if he thought so, then he clearly wasn't paying attention.  Doc had been trying to not use House as a PG since last preseason, and it continued throughout the season and postseason.  He only played PG when they have no other choice.

The C's resigned him as a shooter off the bench.  Not a PG, but a basketball player.  I think all along they planned on playing him a good deal of minutes at the SG position, and that doesn't change if Cassell comes back.  All that changes is that Pruitt might be squeezed out.

A shooter off the bench to spread the floor for Ray, Paul and Kevin.  Which means he won't be playing SG.

We used him as Rondo's primary backup last year, and I believe the same is expected of him this year.  He has a much more difficult time guarding opposing 2 guards, while he excels at defending the one.   

One of our better crunch time lineups last year featured him at pg.  Yes he can play the 2 if need be, but Danny brought him in to be a backup pg.

Sam hasn't EXCELLED at guarding the one in years. He is slow as molasses and the huge majority of pg's blow right past him. This causes other players to have to rotate to pick his man up which leaves open theirs. If you want to throw out Sam's positives, which there are a couple, don't be making stuff up.

Positives:

He is a decent "bring the ball up under pressure" pg.
He is obviously liked by his teammates and coaches.
He can get hot at times.
He can back smaller guards down on the block.

Negatives:

He is shoot first, second, and third before looking to pass the ball.
He does not push the ball up the floor, rather looks to hard dribble the thing up with his back turned and head down.
He can shoot you right out of a game much more often than shoot you in one.
He rarely posts anyone up anymore because he doesn't let the play develop.
He is extremely slow footed these days and can't play decent defense.
He stalls the offense.

All in all, there really isn't a very good reason to bring this guy back. I am willing to bet that House didn't know this was likely to happen prior to signing up with us again. I think it is all in Gabe's hands to prove he can be a decent third guard so they will cut Sam. If not, and Doc is willing to have Sam sit, then maybe it isn't the end of the world. Pretty close though...

I can't argue with much of this, except one thing...this is based on a very small sample size compared to the rest of his career.  You described what Sam was perfectly when he was on the C's last year.  However, he was not nearly as bad earlier in the year on the Clippers, and has showed over the years that his style of play can be incredibly successful on a playoff team.

So the question is, was he really as cooked at the end of last year as he looked, or was the combination of injuries, and a new system to learn without much time what contributed to him looking like he aged about 5 years in a 2 month period?

I don't know the answer to this, because I think either could be the case.  But what I do know is the Cassell that he has been for nearly his entire career up until the last few months of last year (yes, even the one who averaged nearly 13 pts, 5 assists to 2 turnovers in 26 minutes over 38 games with LA last year), would be a huge addition to this team.

Maybe he is Eric Gagne, who looked good on the Rangers before taking a nose dive that doesn't look like it is going to be changing after being traded.  Or maybe he will be able to right the ship, by coming in healthy, and having a full training camp to learn his teammates and the system better.

I think it certainly is worth a shot.  And since it is a vet minimum deal (reportedly), if he proves to be the same guy he was at the end of last year, then they just let him go.

Are you forgetting the game earlier in the season where we played them and Rondo torched him so badly that he committed that nasty flagrant foul and was ejected from the game to save himself further embarrassment?! I would venture a guess to say that Sam has been getting dramatically worse the last few years and due to the fact that the Clips are never televised most people haven't seen it. Stats show a pretty steady decline in categories like steals, ppg, mpg, assists, and to a lesser extent other categories the past 3-4 yrs. I think these point to a decline having started to occur the last few years and not just since arriving in Boston.

As a 37 year old basketball player, I can promise you that in a period of a couple years you can see your quickness, jumping ability, and overall athleticism drop pretty dramatically. As I also continue to play against younger players the gap in my game and guys I used to wipe off the floor is closing fast. I think Sam is seeing the same thing. If he was playing against all 35 year olds he probably would still seem to have more game.

Rondo did that to a lot of other guys who I would like to see on this team, so that doesn't mean much. 

Yes, Sam is a horrible one on one defensive player, and has been for several years now (including years where he helped lead teams deeper in the playoffs than they have ever been). 

The fact is At the beginning of last year Cassell was still an extremely effective offensive player, and he still has enough smarts to be able to hold his own defensively in short minutes when surrounded with good defenders.

His dramatic drop in steals also show he isn't a very good team defender either, so now what you're left with is a streak shooter who isn't a very effective shooter anymore. You can twist it all you want, but you have a ball hog that is more concerned with his own stats than with the team. His public complaining last year in spite of Boston's success proves that. The reason he had a few good offensive games early in the season with the Clips, is the same reason that TA had some very high offensive outputs the previous year when Pierce went down. There was no one else to take the shots. In our system he can't be shooting 15 times a game, so his offensive output isn't ever going to be there. The very small positives that he brings to the table are far outweighed with all those defensive negatives. We are a defense first team. Sam is a selfish shooter and no defense player at this stage. Plain and simple.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree then, because I believe, and will not be swayed on the opinion that the Sam Cassell who played on the Clippers last year is a significantly better PG than Eddie House is, and that is all that matters.  We will just have to wait and see who shows up this year.

[bucknersrevenge]

If so then I am for this, but if we have to cut a young player with potential, then I just don't get this move.

Young player with potential? Get over it. Who are we, the Timberwolves? And what young players with potential are we talking about? Future all-stars? Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, POB? Hardly. Nobody can tell if they'll be in the league in 3/4 years. Decent chance they won't.

I don't like loosing Pruitt or Walker before we know what we got with them.

The team will know that after the training camp.

Danny's track record with draft picks makes this assertion little more than a guess with no basis behind it. Say what you want about Danny's free agent moves or his trades, but when it comes to young player talent eval, Danny is among the best in the business and his track record speaks for itself. It's not even a debate. It's funny people always want say these young kids are unknown but then bet against them based on no information at all. Future all-stars? Who knows? 1 or 2 of them could be in the future. They all have the talent. No we're not the

Truth is NOW is the best time to add young talent when you have a better chance of molding it into a productive player in an environment conducive to winning basketball.

[cordobes]

If so then I am for this, but if we have to cut a young player with potential, then I just don't get this move.

Young player with potential? Get over it. Who are we, the Timberwolves? And what young players with potential are we talking about? Future all-stars? Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, POB? Hardly. Nobody can tell if they'll be in the league in 3/4 years. Decent chance they won't.

I don't like loosing Pruitt or Walker before we know what we got with them.

The team will know that after the training camp.

good reply, cordobes,

but we've seen some very fine prospects flourish elsewhere, (johnson, billups, etc.)  don't you feel like the Celtics must devote a significant portion of their team to farming young talent?  Red Sox did it a lot, and the NFL less so.  I just think the NBA has room for this, because even though we used trades to get to the championship, the contracts we have make it difficult to sign any FAs to complete our team.  I would rather see players we develop fill prominant roles.

Therefore, I am reticent to accept this Sam deal, unless it is part of other moves to come.  I remember a lot of disbelief in the ray allen trade until "the other shoe dropped."  As a close fan of the team, I still have no idea what Ainge's plans look like until they are long done, so lets hope this makes sense in June!

Go Celts!

Sure, I agree with you that the team must develop talent. But we already have lots of those guys. Players with 2/1/0 years of experience in the NBA:

Rondo
Pruitt
Giddens
Walker
Powe
BBD
POB

Seven guys, basically half of a roster (and Erden is being farmed overseas).

I think this is more than a significant portion of the team.

The problem is that I think it's okay to develop talent as long as doing that does not jeopardize your chances of winning. Winning is now the priority.

So, if we lose 1 or 2 of those 7 guys, I won't be much worried.

[bucknersrevenge]

If so then I am for this, but if we have to cut a young player with potential, then I just don't get this move.

Young player with potential? Get over it. Who are we, the Timberwolves? And what young players with potential are we talking about? Future all-stars? Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, POB? Hardly. Nobody can tell if they'll be in the league in 3/4 years. Decent chance they won't.

I don't like loosing Pruitt or Walker before we know what we got with them.

The team will know that after the training camp.

good reply, cordobes,

but we've seen some very fine prospects flourish elsewhere, (johnson, billups, etc.)  don't you feel like the Celtics must devote a significant portion of their team to farming young talent?  Red Sox did it a lot, and the NFL less so.  I just think the NBA has room for this, because even though we used trades to get to the championship, the contracts we have make it difficult to sign any FAs to complete our team.  I would rather see players we develop fill prominant roles.

Therefore, I am reticent to accept this Sam deal, unless it is part of other moves to come.  I remember a lot of disbelief in the ray allen trade until "the other shoe dropped."  As a close fan of the team, I still have no idea what Ainge's plans look like until they are long done, so lets hope this makes sense in June!

Go Celts!

Sure, I agree with you that the team must develop talent. But we already have lots of those guys. Players with 2/1/0 years of experience in the NBA:

Rondo
Pruitt
Giddens
Walker
Powe
BBD
POB

Seven guys, basically half of a roster (and Erden is being farmed overseas).

I think this is more than a significant portion of the team.

The problem is that I think it's okay to develop talent as long as doing that does not jeopardize your chances of winning. Winning is now the priority.

So, if we lose 1 or 2 of those 7 guys, I won't be much worried.

I think Danny would argue that winning has ALWAYS been the priority. Even when we were losing it was STILL our priority. Why should the way we do things change now when the way we did it got us a title in the first place? Developing talent and winning don't necessarily have to be opposing themes. You have a system, a nucleus and a group of stable mentors I don't see why "winning" should come at the cost of doing business the way you've been doing it since you got here.

The Red Sox have developed one of the best minor league farm systems in baseball. Young players are contributing every day for them. They have a core of solid veterans, maintained an environment that is all about winning and now the kids are getting the opportunity to speed up their learning curve and make contributions to a team still with its eye on winning it all this year.

[johnnyrondo]

Anyone find it ironic that the one guy who didn't know our plays last year is going to be a coach?

[bucknersrevenge]

Anyone find it ironic that the one guy who didn't know our plays last year is going to be a coach?

No more ironic than the fact that the one guy on our team last year who was the exact opposite of all things "ubuntu" is planning on being a coach in our future.

[nickagneta]

Guys don't confuse how people play the game with how they might coach. Sam's game was as a gunner and then a passer. But he is a very knowledgable player and if he can properly communicate that knowledge to younger players and teach and motivate them, he just might make an exceptional coach.

Magic Johnson and Bob Cousy are two of the smartest, most knowledgable and best performing players in league history. Neither was a good coach. It might even be said they were bad coaches. Then there have been a bunch of tremendous coaches that never played the game professionally.

Let's not throw Sam's possible contributions as a coach out the window as useless before he is even given a chance. By all indications from people in the know, they all say he will be a very good coach someday.

[CoachBo]

Gotta side with Cordobes on this one. This team is too overloaded with youth to successfully compete for a title. I disgree entirely with the idea that "now is the time" for another youth movement. It is anything but that. It's the time to get the starters the help they need to win another title.

I frankly don't care if a couple of the younger players are cut loose for a veteran presence.