Best rapper

[kgiessler]

Oh, and I gave my vote to Jay-Z.

"Best" is such a general term, its hard to determine what the criteria was.  Here was what I used:
1)Universal Appeal: are this persons' songs ones that only aficionados can appreciate, or can many people see the artistic value 
2) Musicality:  Beats, Flow, Instruments (really, most of his success here is due to Kanye though)
3) Content: are the songs meaningful, do they have lasting themes?
4) Lyrical quality: What about metaphors, similes, alliteration, assonance, and allusions?
5) Influence: creation of slang, new styles, is this persons work sampled?
6) Proliferation: is there a meaningful body of work to assess?

Tupac would have had my vote up until sometime soon after the Black Album, but since then its been Jay-Z.

People like Rakim, Mad Skillz, they hit real well on #4, but to me thats not what its all about.  Others are all about #3, like Talib and Common, and to me thats very enjoyable, but for others thats isnt a focus when listening, just a side benefit.

[blazingarrow]

Last time I checked, Kool G Rap is still alive.

4,5,6 is the sickest straight lyrical album ever.

End of argument.

You could maybe make an argument that his recent Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. is kinda weak, but whatever. Listen to the song Executioner Style.

Only guys out there in the same league are Saigon, Apathy, One Be Lo, and maybe Gift of Gab.

Honorable mention to R.A. The Rugged Man

[guava_wrench]

Vanilla Ice. Game over. I win.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Oh, and I gave my vote to Jay-Z.

"Best" is such a general term, its hard to determine what the criteria was.  Here was what I used:
1)Universal Appeal: are this persons' songs ones that only aficionados can appreciate, or can many people see the artistic value 
2) Musicality:  Beats, Flow, Instruments (really, most of his success here is due to Kanye though)
3) Content: are the songs meaningful, do they have lasting themes?
4) Lyrical quality: What about metaphors, similes, alliteration, assonance, and allusions?
5) Influence: creation of slang, new styles, is this persons work sampled?
6) Proliferation: is there a meaningful body of work to assess?

Tupac would have had my vote up until sometime soon after the Black Album, but since then its been Jay-Z.

People like Rakim, Mad Skillz, they hit real well on #4, but to me thats not what its all about.  Others are all about #3, like Talib and Common, and to me thats very enjoyable, but for others thats isnt a focus when listening, just a side benefit.

First of all Jay-Z was a mega-star before Kanye or Just Blaze ever stepped into Baseline. Kanye owes ALL of his success to Jay.

Jay-Z's first album is a bonafide classic... you probably haven't heard it... it's called Reasonable Doubt. Nothing he's made since has topped it (and I love Jay-Z).

By your definitions, Rakim is the greatest rapper alive... No other rapper has been as imitated or influential as a lyricist (especially on the genre and other rappers). Show me a rapper more influential over the last 20 years.

Go listen to some Eric B and Rakim... "As the Rhyme Goes On", "Juice (the ledge)", "Don't Sweat the Technique", "Microphone Fiend", "Paid in Full", "I Ain't No Joke", "I Know You Got Soul", "Eric B is President".... The list goes on and on.

[The Incredible Hulk]

 

[kgiessler]

Oh, and I gave my vote to Jay-Z.

"Best" is such a general term, its hard to determine what the criteria was.  Here was what I used:
1)Universal Appeal: are this persons' songs ones that only aficionados can appreciate, or can many people see the artistic value 
2) Musicality:  Beats, Flow, Instruments (really, most of his success here is due to Kanye though)
3) Content: are the songs meaningful, do they have lasting themes?
4) Lyrical quality: What about metaphors, similes, alliteration, assonance, and allusions?
5) Influence: creation of slang, new styles, is this persons work sampled?
6) Proliferation: is there a meaningful body of work to assess?

Tupac would have had my vote up until sometime soon after the Black Album, but since then its been Jay-Z.

People like Rakim, Mad Skillz, they hit real well on #4, but to me thats not what its all about.  Others are all about #3, like Talib and Common, and to me thats very enjoyable, but for others thats isnt a focus when listening, just a side benefit.

First of all Jay-Z was a mega-star before Kanye or Just Blaze ever stepped into Baseline. Kanye owes ALL of his success to Jay.

Jay-Z's first album is a bonafide classic... you probably haven't heard it... it's called Reasonable Doubt. Nothing he's made since has topped it (and I love Jay-Z).

By your definitions, Rakim is the greatest rapper alive... No other rapper has been as imitated or influential as a lyricist (especially on the genre and other rappers). Show me a rapper more influential over the last 20 years.

Go listen to some Eric B and Rakim... "As the Rhyme Goes On", "Juice (the ledge)", "Don't Sweat the Technique", "Microphone Fiend", "Paid in Full", "I Ain't No Joke", "I Know You Got Soul", "Eric B is President".... The list goes on and on.

I sense a condescending tone in your post. I guess your assuming I don't know what I'm talking about.

No need to recommend RD, its been on my rack since 96.  And Paid in Full has been on even longer (94?).

My point in crediting Kanye with his musicality is that the tracks that Kanye produced for him (and that influence since then) have an instrumental appeal which his previous albums do not.

I think your point with Rakim's influence is regarding music.  Mine was not, it was simply influence.  Even my Dad says I'm Big Pimpin when I drive around with my top down.  My Dad has never said Make Em Clap to This.

And, btw, Rakim's third solo is expected at the end of the year.  Seventh's Soul or something...I forget.

EDIT: Oh, I see why you misinterpreted.  That note about Kanye in the parentheses was for instruments only, not for all of the things in musicality.

[guava_wrench]

Oh, and I gave my vote to Jay-Z.

"Best" is such a general term, its hard to determine what the criteria was.  Here was what I used:
1)Universal Appeal: are this persons' songs ones that only aficionados can appreciate, or can many people see the artistic value 
2) Musicality:  Beats, Flow, Instruments (really, most of his success here is due to Kanye though)
3) Content: are the songs meaningful, do they have lasting themes?
4) Lyrical quality: What about metaphors, similes, alliteration, assonance, and allusions?
5) Influence: creation of slang, new styles, is this persons work sampled?
6) Proliferation: is there a meaningful body of work to assess?

I think these criteria are good. Well thought out.

Tupac would have had my vote up until sometime soon after the Black Album, but since then its been Jay-Z.

People like Rakim, Mad Skillz, they hit real well on #4, but to me thats not what its all about.  Others are all about #3, like Talib and Common, and to me thats very enjoyable, but for others thats isnt a focus when listening, just a side benefit.

First of all Jay-Z was a mega-star before Kanye or Just Blaze ever stepped into Baseline. Kanye owes ALL of his success to Jay.

Jay-Z's first album is a bonafide classic... you probably haven't heard it... it's called Reasonable Doubt. Nothing he's made since has topped it (and I love Jay-Z).

By your definitions, Rakim is the greatest rapper alive... No other rapper has been as imitated or influential as a lyricist (especially on the genre and other rappers). Show me a rapper more influential over the last 20 years.

Go listen to some Eric B and Rakim... "As the Rhyme Goes On", "Juice (the ledge)", "Don't Sweat the Technique", "Microphone Fiend", "Paid in Full", "I Ain't No Joke", "I Know You Got Soul", "Eric B is President".... The list goes on and on.

Mahogany is my favorite by Rakim.

The problem with making influential the most important factor is that it will, or course, favor older rappers. How can rappers who have only been around less than a decade compete with someone like Rakim who was in their prime 30 years ago?

On the other hand, Eric B & Rakim didn't have the commercial impact that the newer guys have because the rap that sold big back then was Beastie Boys, Run DMC (due to Aerosmith crossover success), MC Hammer, and Vanilla Ice. NWA and Public Enemy are legit acts that also sold a lot, but they were controversial. Rakim flew under the radar because the mainstream market wasn't ready and he never performed or toured with hard rock acts like some of the others.

The main problem with comparing across generations is that the newer acts learn from the older generation and take what they like, while also being open to new sounds that the old geezers might not be willing to explore.

Putting aside the "best rapper" label, It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back by Public Enemy is one of the all-time greatest albums in music history, regardless of where Chuck D might fall in the rapper pantheon. The album transcended the genre and was able to be political, while also being music that people could relate to without even listening to the lyrics.

[kgiessler]

Putting aside the "best rapper" label, It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back by Public Enemy is one of the all-time greatest albums in music history, regardless of where Chuck D might fall in the rapper pantheon. The album transcended the genre and was able to be political, while also being music that people could relate to without even listening to the lyrics.

That's an even better discussion to have.  For me, its Me Against the World.  Timeless to say the least, and I can listen to it over and over again without tiring.  Every track is a gem.

The Black Album comes in a close second for me, but its not as meaningful of an album, and has some tracks that are just weak.

[indeedproceed]

Either

Mos Def: Black On Both Sides

or

The Roots: Things Fall Apart.

Those albums are my favorite two rap/hiphop albums.

The 'best' though should probably be Life After Death, and to me its not even close.

[kgiessler]

Either

Mos Def: Black On Both Sides

or

The Roots: Things Fall Apart.

Those albums are my favorite two rap/hiphop albums.

The 'best' though should probably be Life After Death, and to me its not even close.

I was going to disagree with you, but by my criteria above, yeah, Life After Death should probably win, with nothing even close.  I'm a Tupac fan first and foremost, so I'm biased to forgetting about anything Bad Boy.  However, there were a bunch of terrible tracks on that CD too though, which is one of the reasons I don't listen to it enough.

[blueygreen]

Obviously:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PsnxDQvQpw

also, whoever mentioned Big Pun is definately right, very underrated.

For people who say Dre, I really can't agree. He is an excellent producer, and he has some nice stuff, but he isn't really that great of a pure rapper.

I must say MC Ren was very good with NWA and had some [dang] good verses.

Glad to see Rakim, MF Doom, Tribe Called Quest etc. getting some love.

The weird thing about a guy like Raekwon is that I don't think he's a great lyricist/rapper, although his slang is top notch, but Only Built 4 Cuban Linx has to be one of the best albums ever. I'm really struggling to pick one standout track to put on here, as it's a cinematic album experience. Oh well, let's go with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwkd2HBNiU

[EJPLAYA]

It was sure nice when all rappers did was tell everyone why they were the best though. Kind of hard to justify people shouting vulgarities and obscenities and bragging about killing cops and mistreating women as being art. The term "inciting a riot" comes to mind. All those poor kids who look up to these guys and try to emulate them are going to have one sorry life. 

EJ, It sounds like you've never heard any hip-hop outside of the mainstream. Tell me what you think of this video

Talib Kweli

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGvZ9aXg5Xs

Although I might personally classify this guy as poetry vs. a rapper, it is nice to see him making an attempt at being positive. Unfortunately that is why this guy isn't heard of. If you're not being nasty or violent then you get no play. I am definitely referring to the big guys that throw out this kind of trash, and not guys like this. Unfortunately that is all you hear. I get funny looks when people hear that I grew up loving rap, because what they think is the trash, not the stuff that I listened to. We all remember waiting for the "response album" like Kool Moe Dee and LL going at it. That was creative and good stuff. The beats may still be good, but you need the Karaoke version of it so that you don't have to listen to them.

Well EJ, just because *you* haven't heard of Talib doesn't mean Talib isn't heard of.

And perhaps you've stopped listening for the wrong reasons.  There are plenty of people getting played that are neither nasty, nor violent.

I have a friend from high school that likes to rap a bit that you could say the same thing about. "not being heard of". That doesn't really make him mainstream.

I stopped listening for exactly the right reasons. There are way too many negatives out there for me to set that example for my kids. I don't want them thinking it is fine to listen to rap when it is so easy to cross that "Most of his stuff isn't bad" line. If you listen to rap you are going to end up listening to the bad along with the good. It is unavoidable. I'd rather them stay away from the whole scene rather than get dragged into stuff that we shouldn't have influencing them. If I listen to it then how can I look them in the eye and say they shouldn't. People are free to do what they'd like, but that was my choice. I miss the music, but not enough to pay the price.

[cdif911]

I'm gonna throw college dropout in there as one of my favorite albums ever, it just flows through and through, I could listen to it front to back over and over

[ManUp]

Immortal Technique - is on heaviest rotation on my pod right now.


WARNING: This video has offensive Lyrics

This is the nastiest thing you will ever see...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOGZRTLivn8

Thats not even close to "Dance with the Devil"

That song is so disturbing that you will have to listen to it again

Just listened to that song just now for the first time and i'm disturbed.

The song is like a movie, he paints a perfect picture with his Lyrics, and the content is just sickening.

I'm feeling sick right now, definitely shouldn't have listened to it after eating.

[shookones99]

Immortal Technique - is on heaviest rotation on my pod right now.


WARNING: This video has offensive Lyrics

This is the nastiest thing you will ever see...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOGZRTLivn8

Thats not even close to "Dance with the Devil"

That song is so disturbing that you will have to listen to it again

Just listened to that song just now for the first time and i'm disturbed.

The song is like a movie, he paints a perfect picture with his Lyrics, and the content is just sickening.

I'm feeling sick right now, definitely shouldn't have listened to it after eating.

I suggest nobody ever listen to that song.  It will ruin your day.