Paul Pierce...best in the world

[LarBrd33]

KingPoweChicken...

Kobe and LeBron are unquestionably better than Pierce.   Anyone who says otherwise is a complete and total homer. 

If you swapped LeBron with Pierce... first of all that 2008 Cavs team would pretty much look like a replica of the 2007 Celtics team that won like 24 games.    Meanwhile, the Celtics would be unstoppable.   

If you swapped Kobe with Pierce in the finals... Pierce would average 12-18 points against that Celtic defense and shoot somewhere between 39-43%.  Meanwhile, the Celtics would likely sweep. 

Yes, the teams matter.   They matter a hell of a lot.  Pierce is my favorite player, but there shouldn't even be a debate here.  Pierce did not "outplay" either of these guys.  His TEAM outplayed the Cavs and his TEAM outplayed the Lakers.   Pierce didn't even need to be the #1 scoring option on his team, honestly.   Prior to deciding to ease off on the defense and have a shootout with LeBron, Pierce was averaging 15 points through the first 6 games of the Cavs series.    Again, I absolutely love Pierce and think he deserves credit... but he's not even the best player on his own team. 

[D Dub]

Kobe is so completely over rated it is insane. 

What ever has he done on his own, besides ignore his teamates long enough to score 81 points in a game?  Any above average shooting guard wins 3 rings along side Shaq in his prime, just ask Dwayne Wade.

Just because he is a flashy entertainer doesn't mean he is the best player in the world. 

[bigjohnson34st]

KingPoweChicken...

Kobe and LeBron are unquestionably better than Pierce.   Anyone who says otherwise is a complete and total homer. 

If you swapped LeBron with Pierce... first of all that 2008 Cavs team would pretty much look like a replica of the 2007 Celtics team that won like 24 games.    Meanwhile, the Celtics would be unstoppable.   

If you swapped Kobe with Pierce in the finals... Pierce would average 12-18 points against that Celtic defense and shoot somewhere between 39-43%.  Meanwhile, the Celtics would likely sweep. 

Yes, the teams matter.   They matter a hell of a lot.  Pierce is my favorite player, but there shouldn't even be a debate here.  Pierce did not "outplay" either of these guys.  His TEAM outplayed the Cavs and his TEAM outplayed the Lakers.   Pierce didn't even need to be the #1 scoring option on his team, honestly.   Prior to deciding to ease off on the defense and have a shootout with LeBron, Pierce was averaging 15 points through the first 6 games of the Cavs series.    Again, I absolutely love Pierce and think he deserves credit... but he's not even the best player on his own team. 

Paul outplayed both. Cavs and Lakers fans will acknowledge that. It's the general consensus of b-ball fans everywhere.

KG's role has to be kept in context. He is not the best player on this team but he is the anchor. And considering he is 1 of only 5 legitimate anchor's (Timmy, Dwight, Shaq) in this league I think his role is more valuable. You cant put role players around KG and expect him to accomplish anything. Ask McHale. But you can do so with Pual. Note the Celts of the early part of this millenium. We were a legitmate east contender with lil more than Paul and some old role players. Walter (I love walt), Kenny Anderson, Toine, etc..... KG didnt make it out of the first round until he had Sam and Spree in their primes. But when you put an anchor like KG with a player like Paul the result is a ring.... A la Dr. & Moses, Kobe & Shaq, Magic & Kareem, D-Wade & Shaq, Manu/Parker & Timmy, etc....

[Celtics17]

While I personally think Lebron is the best player in the game, Pierce's comments are not totally without merit. Sure you can argue that had Bryant been on the C's that the team would have been better then it would with Pierce instead. But, Cleveland was a very, very good defensive team. In fact, their interior defense may have been better then ours. In the deciding game against Cleveland, and with Lebron guarding him some, Pierce outplayed Lebron. I still don't think Pual is better then Kobe or Lebron but I also don't think that it is totally ludicrous that he said it.

[BballTim]

KingPoweChicken...

Kobe and LeBron are unquestionably better than Pierce.   Anyone who says otherwise is a complete and total homer. 

If you swapped LeBron with Pierce... first of all that 2008 Cavs team would pretty much look like a replica of the 2007 Celtics team that won like 24 games.    Meanwhile, the Celtics would be unstoppable.   

If you swapped Kobe with Pierce in the finals... Pierce would average 12-18 points against that Celtic defense and shoot somewhere between 39-43%.  Meanwhile, the Celtics would likely sweep. 

  The Celtics were pretty much unstoppable this year. Pierce on the Cavs would have been more than a 24 win team. And the 39-43% would be better than LeBron shot against us and as good or better than Kobe shot against us. There's no way he'd have aeraged 12-18 points against us. He'd get more shots than he does now, just like Kobe does.

  Even if you don't think Paul is as good as Kobe or LeBron those statements are ridiculous.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not sure that Paul outplayed Lebron.

Point totals:

Lebron: 12, 21, 21, 21, 35, 32, 45
Paul: 4, 19, 14, 13, 29, 16, 41

Assist totals:

Lebron: 9, 6, 8, 13, 5, 6, 6
Paul: 4, 2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 5

Rebound totals:

Lebron: 9, 5, 5, 6, 3, 12, 5
Paul: 5, 6, 3, 5, 7, 5, 4

Shooting totals:

Lebron: 2-for-18, 6-for-24, 5-for-16, 7-for-20, 12-for-25, 9-for-23, 14-for-29
Paul: 2-for-14, 7-for-13, 3-for-8, 6-for-17, 8-for-19, 5-for-15, 13-for-23

Overall, then, you see that Lebron outscored and out-assisted Paul in every game, and outrebounded him in five of them.  Overall, Lebron shot 35.5% for the series, while Paul shot 40.4%.  That's not such a difference to negate the other contributions Lebron made.

[bigjohnson34st]

I'm not sure that Paul outplayed Lebron.

Point totals:

Lebron: 12, 21, 21, 21, 35, 32, 45
Paul: 4, 19, 14, 13, 29, 16, 41

Assist totals:

Lebron: 9, 6, 8, 13, 5, 6, 6
Paul: 4, 2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 5

Rebound totals:

Lebron: 9, 5, 5, 6, 3, 12, 5
Paul: 5, 6, 3, 5, 7, 5, 4

Shooting totals:

Lebron: 2-for-18, 6-for-24, 5-for-16, 7-for-20, 12-for-25, 9-for-23, 14-for-29
Paul: 2-for-14, 7-for-13, 3-for-8, 6-for-17, 8-for-19, 5-for-15, 13-for-23

Overall, then, you see that Lebron outscored and out-assisted Paul in every game, and outrebounded him in five of them.  Overall, Lebron shot 35.5% for the series, while Paul shot 40.4%.  That's not such a difference to negate the other contributions Lebron made.

This was truly the best series of b-ball i had seen in a long time. Two great defensive teams. Almost mirror images of one another... Just fyi... when regarding stats you have to consider how much more the ball is in Lebron's hands compared to Paul. I would like to see those numer evaluated by some sort of efficiency rating. Does having a couple more assit and rebounds truly balance out the fact that Leborn has the ball about 80% of the time the Cav's are on offense.... Nah, it desnt come even close. No one on any team I ever watched (other than the hawks with Dominique)did one player control the ball so much. Flat out a bad basketball scheme. Lebron aside.

[crownsy]

I'm not sure that Paul outplayed Lebron.

Point totals:

Lebron: 12, 21, 21, 21, 35, 32, 45
Paul: 4, 19, 14, 13, 29, 16, 41

Assist totals:

Lebron: 9, 6, 8, 13, 5, 6, 6
Paul: 4, 2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 5

Rebound totals:

Lebron: 9, 5, 5, 6, 3, 12, 5
Paul: 5, 6, 3, 5, 7, 5, 4

Shooting totals:

Lebron: 2-for-18, 6-for-24, 5-for-16, 7-for-20, 12-for-25, 9-for-23, 14-for-29
Paul: 2-for-14, 7-for-13, 3-for-8, 6-for-17, 8-for-19, 5-for-15, 13-for-23

Overall, then, you see that Lebron outscored and out-assisted Paul in every game, and outrebounded him in five of them.  Overall, Lebron shot 35.5% for the series, while Paul shot 40.4%.  That's not such a difference to negate the other contributions Lebron made.

whats it look like when adjusted for the fact that lebron runs the point and has the ball 90% of the time? i'm sure if paul played suedo PG and just passed to spotted up shooters, his stats would also be inflated.

[Roy Hobbs]

Flat out a bad basketball scheme. Lebron aside.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but that bad basketball scheme got the Cavs to the Finals two seasons ago, and it got them to the closing minutes of Game 7 against the best team in the world this past season.  Lebron is that good.

[xmuscularghandix]

hopefully something was lost in translation there, cuz yeah that's dumb - Kobe almost did it basically on his own. Lebron almost did it basically on his own - Pierce did it with a little help from his friends - now are PP, KG and RA the best 3some in the NBA - heck yes

though TMAC, Yao and Artest... that's scary

Kobe and Lebron didn't win titles on their own.

[bigjohnson34st]

Flat out a bad basketball scheme. Lebron aside.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but that bad basketball scheme got the Cavs to the Finals two seasons ago, and it got them to the closing minutes of Game 7 against the best team in the world this past season.  Lebron is that good.

I'll disagree for two reasons. One, the east was waaaaayyy tougher this year than last year. In addition, the Pistons have become the door mat to the finals in the East. They are flat out too old and they lack depth. They were beat before they even played the first game against the Cavs and C's. By the time they reach the Eastern Finals their steam is gone. Heck, how many T's did Sheed even get in the sewries against the Celts... They have not even taken one of the three teams from the last 3 years to a seven game series. Dumars needs to blow them up yesterday. So in summary, Lebron's trip to the finals last year was nothing special. Almost by default.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not sure that Paul outplayed Lebron.

Point totals:

Lebron: 12, 21, 21, 21, 35, 32, 45
Paul: 4, 19, 14, 13, 29, 16, 41

Assist totals:

Lebron: 9, 6, 8, 13, 5, 6, 6
Paul: 4, 2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 5

Rebound totals:

Lebron: 9, 5, 5, 6, 3, 12, 5
Paul: 5, 6, 3, 5, 7, 5, 4

Shooting totals:

Lebron: 2-for-18, 6-for-24, 5-for-16, 7-for-20, 12-for-25, 9-for-23, 14-for-29
Paul: 2-for-14, 7-for-13, 3-for-8, 6-for-17, 8-for-19, 5-for-15, 13-for-23

Overall, then, you see that Lebron outscored and out-assisted Paul in every game, and outrebounded him in five of them.  Overall, Lebron shot 35.5% for the series, while Paul shot 40.4%.  That's not such a difference to negate the other contributions Lebron made.

whats it look like when adjusted for the fact that lebron runs the point and has the ball 90% of the time? i'm sure if paul played suedo PG and just passed to spotted up shooters, his stats would also be inflated.

Perhaps true, but I'm really not sure where all the "Everyone would concede that Pierce clearly outplayed Lebron" statements are coming from.  What is that conclusion based upon?

I watched the series, and I felt that Lebron was the best player on the court at all times, even when he was struggling to find his shot.  He can hurt an opponent in so many ways, and I do agree with LarBrd33's assessment that if Lebron and Pierce were swapped in the Cleveland series, that would have been a much easier series for Boston.

[Roy Hobbs]

Flat out a bad basketball scheme. Lebron aside.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but that bad basketball scheme got the Cavs to the Finals two seasons ago, and it got them to the closing minutes of Game 7 against the best team in the world this past season.  Lebron is that good.

I'll disagree for two reasons. One, the east was waaaaayyy tougher this year than last year. In addition, the Pistons have become the door mat to the finals in the East. They are flat out too old and they lack depth. They were beat before they even played the first game against the Cavs and C's. By the time they reach the Eastern Finals their steam is gone. Heck, how many T's did Sheed even get in the sewries against the Celts... They have not even taken one of the three teams from the last 3 years to a seven game series. Dumars needs to blow them up yesterday. So in summary, Lebron's trip to the finals last year was nothing special. Almost by default.

1) I disagree

2) What about this year, when we basically came a P.J. Brown jumper and a jump ball away from losing against Lebron in Game 7?

[zerophase]

1 man show or not, he's still extremely effective. more so than kobe even. he missed wide open jump shots this year. if he made those, we would've been in big trouble.

[bigjohnson34st]

Flat out a bad basketball scheme. Lebron aside.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but that bad basketball scheme got the Cavs to the Finals two seasons ago, and it got them to the closing minutes of Game 7 against the best team in the world this past season.  Lebron is that good.

I'll disagree for two reasons. One, the east was waaaaayyy tougher this year than last year. In addition, the Pistons have become the door mat to the finals in the East. They are flat out too old and they lack depth. They were beat before they even played the first game against the Cavs and C's. By the time they reach the Eastern Finals their steam is gone. Heck, how many T's did Sheed even get in the sewries against the Celts... They have not even taken one of the three teams from the last 3 years to a seven game series. Dumars needs to blow them up yesterday. So in summary, Lebron's trip to the finals last year was nothing special. Almost by default.

1) I disagree

2) What about this year, when we basically came a P.J. Brown jumper and a jump ball away from losing against Lebron in Game 7?

Not that I am saying Paul is head and shoulders above Lebron... if had my pick give me Paul. But again you are right. That was truly a great series of basketball. Game 7 is a classic. That was the real championship. It was a formality from that point forward.