Michael Finley - Just get it done

[BillfromBoston]

Finley is not what he used to be, but the man can still play...people should take a closer look at the stats/facts of the situation before rushing to judgement...Finley is a situational player now who spreads the floor and plays team D, but he is very effective at it...

...he's not the old Flying Tiger, but he can still contribute...

[bdm860]

Also, Finley is too small too guard most 4's and power 3's in the league. So he cannot do what Posey did for us. Finley is also too slow to guard 2's and 1's.

While what you said is true, why would you expect Finley to come in and guard 1's and 4's?  Might as well have mentioned that he can't guard centers either.  No one is talking about Finley being a replacement for Posey.  Just because Posey left doesn't mean any veteran player we bring in is supposed to be an exact replacement for him.  And outside of Lebron how many power 3's are really a threat to us?  Actually how many power 3's would a backup wing player be expected to guard anyways?  If Finley signed with the C's he would be on the second unit, rarely going up against an opponents best wings. No one is expecting Finley to come in and shut down Lebron.

Under 20 minutes a night (I think ideally 10-15) Finley could be a solid pickup in my opinion.  I don't know how signing a classy veteran player is ever a bad move.  Even if he doesn't produce, he's a good guy to have in the locker room and would be another positive influence on the young guys.  Unless you really have your heart set on some unsigned player, I don't think it could hurt signing Finley, rather than just have an open roster spot.  He could always be waived if other needs arise and other players become available. If he doesn't produce or can't hang with the oppenents, then he won't be playing, so signing him to an open roster spot doesn't hurt, it's not like it's our money.

[timepiece33]

You have got to be kidding me. Micheal Finley is done in every aspect of the game. Any team who gives this guy a contract is a sucker. Finley just cannot play the game at this level anymore, simple as that. I'd much rather have Tony play all the back up minutes for Ray and Paul than put Finley into the mix. Also, Finley is too small too guard most 4's and power 3's in the league.

Finley would be a backup 3 on this team, so his inability to play against a 4 and a 1 is irrelevant.  Maybe Tony Allen could guard Shaq? That is about as relevant a discussion point.

Finley is as equipped to play power 3's than a 6'4" Tony Allen. 

The fact that you said Finley is better than Tony Allen makes me glad you are not affiliated with the Celtics organization.

Please provide any link of evidence that Tony Allen is better other than the "consistent" overrating of his play.  His turnover percentages are about 3X's Finley at his point in his career.  If Allen were to accept his poor dribbling skills and not drive to the basket consistently turning the ball over, he'd be a better player than Finley.  Since he doesn't and has the alarming turnover percentage he has ... it makes him a worse player. Suggesting otherwise is simply looking at Allen with rose colored glasses rather than seeing his shortcomings for what they are.   

Michael Finley is 1/2 the player he used to be.  Tony Allen isn't even that until he harnesses his extremely low basketball IQ and stops creating opportunities for the other team.

[nickagneta]

I have no problem with Finley for a small role, however, aren't there better options still available in Bonzi Wells, Devean George, Walter Hermann, Kirk Snyder, Kareem Rush or even Ira Newble.

[jdub1660]

Finley's done as a 25-30 minute a game player, but as an eighth man off the bench, 10-15 minutes a night backing up Pierce?  He'd be great.  Another guy to spread the floor and provide offense for the second unit, and a true professional.  Give Tony Allen a chance to earn some of those minutes, but they'll still be some PT to be had.  Tony'll mostly back up at the 2, anyway. 

Would you rather be counting on Bill Walker or Scalabrine to be backing up at the 3?

I was just about to say it before I read it here. I'd much rather see Finley on the court than Scalabrine any day of the week.

I understand that Finley played 3 times the amount of minutes that Scal played last year, but even cutting his #'s to a 1/3 they're still better than Scal. Finley is not just better and more reliable in that backup backup SF, but he's an overall smarter player. If Finley will work for the minimum, then take him. But if he will require more money plus minutes, then let him fall back onto the aged roster in San Antonio.

[Smitty]

Finley shot 37% from long range in the regular season and 80% at the line.

Here are his stats for the reg. season: 

07-08 SAS 82 61 26.9 0.414 0.370 0.800 0.3 2.8 3.1 1.4 0.3 0.1 0.68 1.10 10.1

These are not that bad.  Also, consider the likelihood that he should get a few more open looks on the C's than he did on last years Spurs team, IMHO.

[KungPoweChicken]

You have got to be kidding me. Micheal Finley is done in every aspect of the game. Any team who gives this guy a contract is a sucker. Finley just cannot play the game at this level anymore, simple as that. I'd much rather have Tony play all the back up minutes for Ray and Paul than put Finley into the mix. Also, Finley is too small too guard most 4's and power 3's in the league.

Finley would be a backup 3 on this team, so his inability to play against a 4 and a 1 is irrelevant.  Maybe Tony Allen could guard Shaq? That is about as relevant a discussion point.

Finley is as equipped to play power 3's than a 6'4" Tony Allen. 

The fact that you said Finley is better than Tony Allen makes me glad you are not affiliated with the Celtics organization.

Please provide any link of evidence that Tony Allen is better other than the "consistent" overrating of his play.  His turnover percentages are about 3X's Finley at his point in his career.  If Allen were to accept his poor dribbling skills and not drive to the basket consistently turning the ball over, he'd be a better player than Finley.  Since he doesn't and has the alarming turnover percentage he has ... it makes him a worse player. Suggesting otherwise is simply looking at Allen with rose colored glasses rather than seeing his shortcomings for what they are.  

Michael Finley is 1/2 the player he used to be.  Tony Allen isn't even that until he harnesses his extremely low basketball IQ and stops creating opportunities for the other team.

The point I was making about Finley's inability to guard bigger players is that he does not help to fill Posey's absence. Posey was the one who could guard power threes and some fours when necessary. Putting Finley on the squad does nothing to fill in need. Like I said in a previous post, Finley is too slow to guard the two guards too. In conclusion Finley cannot guard anyone anymore. Trying to get Finley to play defense is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

So what does Finley bring to the table? Everyone is saying Finley is a dead eye shooter. But lets look at his playoff statistics. He shot 40% from the field, and 36% from three. In the conference finals when the Spurs needed Finley the most to step up and hit shots, he shot a dismal 32% from the field. I watched every game of that series and Finley had wide open looks. The guy just could not throw the ball in the ocean. For a guy that brings absolutely nothing but shooting, his shooting numbers are not flattering. Also, I hate to state the obvious but Finley is not getting younger, and those numbers are sure to decline even more.

Now back to Tony Allen, Ainge and Rivers have both said that Tony is the best perimeter defender the Celtics have. Rivers has also said Tony is due for a breakout monstrous year. Tony can do everything on the court Finley cannot do. Tony can drive, dish, hustle, and Tony actually has a little bit of that thing they call athleticism. Athleticism waved bye bye to Finley long ago. Lets just say no to Finley. Finley brings nothing to the table except below average shooting.

[guava_wrench]

Please provide any link of evidence that Tony Allen is better other than the "consistent" overrating of his play.  His turnover percentages are about 3X's Finley at his point in his career.  If Allen were to accept his poor dribbling skills and not drive to the basket consistently turning the ball over, he'd be a better player than Finley.

If you want TA to drive to the basket less, you might not want too watch this season.

I would rather see an aggressive TA, taking it to the hole while playing regular minutes. He plays worse when he is tentative and gets caught in half-hearted moves.

[Roy Hobbs]

In conclusion Finley cannot guard anyone anymore

This is inaccurate.  Finley might not be a great one-on-one defender, but he was a very good in San Antonio's team defense.

Opposing shooting guards had an eFG% of .453 and a PER of 13.3 against Finley.  Both numbers are excellent.  Opposing small forwards shot at a. 466 eFG%, with a PER of 14.6.  Again, very good numbers.  Finley was able to play that type of defense without fouling; he averaged less than 2 fouls per 48 minutes.

By the numbers, Finley was significantly better defending small forwards and shooting guards than Posey was defending power forwards (.510 eFG%, 18.6 PER).  Posey was, however, better defensively against SFs  (.427 eFG%, 13.1 PER).

[timepiece33]

Like I said in a previous post, Finley is too slow to guard the two guards too. In conclusion Finley cannot guard anyone anymore. Trying to get Finley to play defense is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

You can say it all you want, but it isn't backed by any statistic whatsoever.  The guy's defensive rating and win shares put him around upper quartile of the league.

BTW, I'm excited about Leon Powe getting more minutes. 

Now back to Tony Allen, Ainge and Rivers have both said that Tony is the best perimeter defender the Celtics have.

Don't have any qualms with Tony's defense.

Rivers has also said Tony is due for a breakout monstrous year. Tony can do everything on the court Finley cannot do. Tony can drive, dish, hustle, and Tony actually has a little bit of that thing they call athleticism. Athleticism waved bye bye to Finley long ago. Lets just say no to Finley. Finley brings nothing to the table except below average shooting.

Tony is also a blackhole on an offensive team.   You say the guy can drive and dish, but he won't do it without having turnover rates that are flat out alarming.   The best thing that could happen to a defensive team is to have Tony Allen attempt to break down a defense.   He's so mistake prone and has been his whole career.  People say it nicely when they say Tony Allen has a low basketball IQ. 

If someone could just get through to this idiot and get him to work off screens to get a step instead of having him try to drive and dish, I'd be happy.  I've spent four years watching him play a game that he doesn't have the ability to do AND some actually are saying it is a positive.

[Who]

Finley's defensive stats are largely a product of the team he plays on. It gives a false picture. The defensive stats on this Celtics team are very impressive because the team had a great defense overall much like San Antonio. Another reason why it gives a false picture is because Finley almost always defended the worst wing on the floor.

Matchups describe his defensive ability better:

(1) Popovich hated having Finley defend post orientated or physically larger wings. That's why they brought in Ime Udoka. Everytime Bonzi Wells checked in during the playoffs, Finley checked out and Udoka came in.

(2) Finley also struggled with jump shooting scorers. Another player from the Hornets, Peja Stojakovic, he was killing the Spurs whenever Finley was on him. He was killing Finley so badly that Popovich had to pull Bowen off of Chris Paul to cool Peja down. Finley didn't have the defensive discipline to stay close to a player like Peja. That move was the difference between winning and losing the series.

(3) Finley also struggled to defend shooting guards who moved well without the ball like Kevin Martin or Ray Allen or Rip Hamilton because he gets caught in screens and because he doesn't stay close enough to them. It was a similar problem with Peja. He doesn't go and breathe on top of those players, he defends them from a distance so they escape his reach easily.

(4) Another player Finley didn't defend well was anyone who could operate off the dribble, he didn't see much time on these guys because of Bowen but he didn't do well when he had the opportunity. Popovich kept him away from players like Kobe Bryant.

He doesn't defend any type of wing well. He's a below average man-to-man defender and a good team defender. He rotates over well and covers for his teammates. His positioning, anticipation and responses are very good. Unfortunately he isn't that imposing or defensively disruptive so his overall impact as a team defender is limited. For example he doesn't force that many turnovers and he doesn't do that good of a job of forcing the opposing player into a low percentage shot. So good rather than very good or excellent.

[wdleehi]

Unless TA and the rookies bomb in their spots, there is no need to use one of the last roster spots on Finely.  

[Who]

I look at Finley being more of a replacement for Tony than a complement for him. Finley would suit Tony's role last season, which is fine except for the fact that Tony is not James Posey. Tony doesn't need another two guard next to him, he needs a more natural small forward. Finley is roughly as comfortable at small forward as Tony is which isn't ideal.

I think the team would be better off with someone who's physically larger and capable of defending some big small forwards. I think that would complement Tony better. That doesn't mean I'm totally against Finley (because his shooting does balance with Tony), just that he's not my first choice (probably Herrmann).

[fairweatherfan06]

Speaking of Hermann WHO.  Is he restricted or unrestricted I've seen both in regards to him.  Also I understand he's a good defender and I'm sure he could defend bigger 3's and even some 4's (strong guy) could he cover the quicker more spry 3's as well or is that where TA, Giddens, Walker would come in?

[Celtic Justice]

I like Michael Finley, but we've got a surplus of wing players (pierce, allen, allen, giddens, walker, house), if we are going to add anyone else we need to get some more size.  I hope O'Bryant can exceed my expectations (which aren't very high), but he's the only true big man besides Perk on the roster.