Are we setting up for 2010??

[JBcat]

Roy, correct me if I'm wrong but Danny's positioning could be to not actually have that ton of cap space in that particular offseason but be in a position a year prior to trade for any of these guys as well as others (Joe Johnson, Michael Redd come to mind whose contracts also expire).  If there is any inkling that these guys are ready to move on, their respective teams might not wait for free agency to redo their contracts and try to trade them a year prior especially seeing the humiliation the Warriors and Clippers went through this offseason.   Even in a sign and trade deal like the Rashard Lewis deal you don't get a whole value in return.  These teams may want to go the KG route and trade their star a year before and get some real value back if they don't see their teams going anywhere.  This is where Ray's contract as others have mentioned in other threads becomes a huge trade bait with his expiring contract starting next summer.  The key could be developing the next Al Jefferson stud.  Hypothetically speaking say if Giddens turns out to be that stud and you package him with Ray at 34 years old and his expiring contract as well as other fillers Walker, Davis, Pruitt, a draft pick and you land Wade. The New Jersey Nets who are obviously positioning for this offseason really don't have the big expiring contract next summer to use as trade bait to go along with prospects.   They will most likely have to wait the following summer and see what happens during that big free agency year but maybe we could beat them to the punch because of Ray's contract and still being an effective player.   Speaking of our young prospects again DA has done a reasonably nice job replenishing prospects on the back end of our team in only a year after losing West, last year's #5 pick, Jefferson, Gomes, Green, and Telfair with Pruitt, Davis, Giddens, Walker, and now O'Byrant.   All except for Davis a little are unproven but they all have some upside and could have a long career.   Not bad in only a year's work and winning a title along the way.  With all this being said it could still be very hard to trade for any of these guys since they are much younger than when we traded for Ray and KG therefore harder to pry away.  I'm waiting for Roy to jump in and kill the buzz on this idea too

[Cman]

However, I still wouldn't 100% rule out someone like a Dwayne Wade in a year or two. We could still potentially trade Ray's contract and younger players (Powe, Perk, Pruitt, Walker, or maybe even Rajon) for Wade if it becomes apparent he wants to leave Miami.

Yes, I think this is the more realistic scenario -- Cs won't be players in the FA market, but teams like Cleveland, Miami, Toronto could opt to trade their young players (LeBron, Wade, Bosh) in the year before those players hit FA.  For example, it is clear that the Nets want to make a run at LeBron.  Will Cleveland risk losing LeBron for nothing? Or do they instead trade him during the 2009 season for an expiring contract (e.g.: Ray Allen) and a number of draft picks and prospects?

Personally I don't think Cleveland will do something like this; of the three players above he is the most likely to stay put.  But I could see Wade or Bosh  moved in a trade like this.  

Edit: JBcat, you beat me to it by seconds..... TP.

[Roy Hobbs]

Yes, Danny is setting himself up well to bring in somebody via trade.  We have Ray's expiring contract, of course.  An expiring contract isn't enough to bring in a decent player in most instances, though, so Danny is stocking the team with young guys with potential.  In a couple of years, if things work out well, I could easily see a trade centered around Ray's deal + Bill Walker + O'Bryant (or whomever else among the young guys).

[johnnyrondo]

Yes, Danny is setting himself up well to bring in somebody via trade.  We have Ray's expiring contract, of course.  An expiring contract isn't enough to bring in a decent player in most instances, though, so Danny is stocking the team with young guys with potential.  In a couple of years, if things work out well, I could easily see a trade centered around Ray's deal + Bill Walker + O'Bryant (or whomever else among the young guys).

In a couple yrs, Ray is a FA. If Ray's still good I don't see us resigning him and trading him. But hypothetically if we did, who would want a 25 yr old shooting guard enough to give up something good. It's not like we have Al Jefferson or the #5 pick to kick in. If he's lousy, I can't see us signing him for big bucks and some team wanting him (for his contract) and wanting Walker or O'Bryant enough to give up anything of value.

Contracts are only valuable if you can package them with something substantial (unless your the Lakers). Ainge has had 3 major assets the past few yrs. High lottery picks (due to consecutive yrs of sucking) in '06 and '07 and Al Jefferson (due to Seattle drafting Swift...j/k Not reopening that thread   ) He also traded smaller assets like two future first rounders, recent first rounders Gerald, Delonte and Telfair. So that's a total of 8 first rounders (two of them high lottery picks) for KG and Allen. It's going to be hard to get something done anytime soon because the main reason we had all those assets is from sucking for several yrs. Hopefully we're winning title the next two yrs, so unless Walker or Giddens or O'Bryant turn into gold, I don't think we have much to offer.

Has Ainge signed or drafted any young player besides Al who ended up with all-star potential? My boy Rondo possibly, but everyone is loving him b/c of Gm 6, but was ready to bench him after gm 5, so that's unclear. Ainge knows how to draft good role players, but teams don't trade much for role players. If Walker or Giddens can become the next Monta Ellis (who i wish we drafted) then we will have something, but that a BIG if. And if they did, why would you trade them?

[Roy Hobbs]

Yes, Danny is setting himself up well to bring in somebody via trade.  We have Ray's expiring contract, of course.  An expiring contract isn't enough to bring in a decent player in most instances, though, so Danny is stocking the team with young guys with potential.  In a couple of years, if things work out well, I could easily see a trade centered around Ray's deal + Bill Walker + O'Bryant (or whomever else among the young guys).

In a couple yrs, Ray is a FA. If Ray's still good I don't see us resigning him and trading him. But hypothetically if we did, who would want a 25 yr old shooting guard enough to give up something good. It's not like we have Al Jefferson or the #5 pick to kick in. If he's lousy, I can't see us signing him for big bucks and some team wanting him (for his contract) and wanting Walker or O'Bryant enough to give up anything of value.

Contracts are only valuable if you can package them with something substantial (unless your the Lakers). Ainge has had 3 major assets the past few yrs. High lottery picks (due to consecutive yrs of sucking) in '06 and '07 and Al Jefferson (due to Seattle drafting Swift...j/k Not reopening that thread   ) He also traded smaller assets like two future first rounders, recent first rounders Gerald, Delonte and Telfair. So that's a total of 8 first rounders (two of them high lottery picks) for KG and Allen. It's going to be hard to get something done anytime soon because the main reason we had all those assets is from sucking for several yrs. Hopefully we're winning title the next two yrs, so unless Walker or Giddens or O'Bryant turn into gold, I don't think we have much to offer.

Has Ainge signed or drafted any young player besides Al who ended up with all-star potential? My boy Rondo possibly, but everyone is loving him b/c of Gm 6, but was ready to bench him after gm 5, so that's unclear. Ainge knows how to draft good role players, but teams don't trade much for role players. If Walker or Giddens can become the next Monta Ellis (who i wish we drafted) then we will have something, but that a BIG if. And if they did, why would you trade them?

Other than the KG trade, what recent trade involving a superstar has netted the kind of trade value you're talking about?  Gasol, Iverson, Kidd, J. O'Neal, Marion, R. Jefferson...  all were traded for packages that were less than stellar.  You can argue about whether Devin Harris is the end all and be all as a prospect, but in the other trades, there clearly wasn't equal value going out to the team trading away their star.

No, we're not going to land Lebron, Wade, or anybody of that caliber with Ray's contract and Bill Walker (unless he blows up).  However, we can get a decent piece that will help, if recent NBA transactions are any indication.

[Chief]

I'm guessing Danny will trade Ray before his contract expires. He'll never get equal value but maybe just enough to keep the team on top of the Eastern Conference.

[bostonfan23]

Is it too early to start thinking about how much Rondo will demand? There will be a lot (relatively speaking) of teams spurned by Wade/Bron etc. who have money to burn, and want to add a player or two of Rondo's caliber and are willing to overpay.

[dorschrm]

if we land lebron in 2010 im renoucing my fanship faster than i can stop drinking anheuser busch products after they got sold....

hate that guy...

Pierce MVP 2009

[bostonfan23]

if we land lebron in 2010 im renoucing my fanship faster than i can stop drinking anheuser busch products after they got sold....

hate that guy...

Pierce MVP 2009

Yeah, getting a guy who will be 25 in 2010 and the best player in basketball would suck.

[nickagneta]

Does anyone know how many productive stars have been traded as expiring contracts that have had salary attched to the contract being $10 million and over.

KG's, obviously, and the Wolves got Al Jefferson a bunch of scrubs and good 1st round picks plus the expiring $11 million contract of another scrub.

But whom else?

Those were some interesting names Roy brought up about not getting back good value but none of those players had an expiring contract. If they had their time might have been able to get quite a bit more.

Why is that so? Looking at that same Gasol trade it can be argued that Memphis traded away Gasol, a top 25 player in the league for a nearly $9 million expiring contract in Kwame Brown. If a stiff like Brown and his $9 million expiring contract could yield Gasol why would a still very producutive Ray Allen with an expiring contract value of nearly $19 million not garner a lot more than a player of Gasol's caliber?

I don't think it is out of the question if Ray stays healthy and productive that a team with the chance at making a FA splash in 2010 if they free up some cash wouldn't give up something special for a chance to try to sign a LeBron, Bosh, Wade or another player.

Who's to say that a Charlotte doesn't try to trade Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor for Ray so that they could pursue a Bosh or Amare to team with Jason Richardson and a budding DJ Augustin and Alexis Ajinca.

Or what about Dallas? Is it beyond the scope of reality that Dallas decides they want to get involved in the chance for LeBron or Amare or Wade and decide to trade Nowitski for Allen straight up to get out from under the last year of Nowitski's contract and get involved with one of the big guys.

What about Denver and Melo. If they get out from under Anthony's contract that year they can become a contender for those guys as well.

I think, Roy, that you might be selling Ray and his contract short because of the timimg involved with it expiring and also because he still would be a value piece of the puzzle to have considering his skill level, if he can keep that up and stay healthy.

[jdub1660]

Here's the sad part of looking at the 2010 season. Imagine how old our Big 3 would be...It sounds like Boston might make an attempt to put together a true Dream Team, just as LA tried back in 2004(Twolves w/KG met up with them in WC Finals) Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, Gary Payton. Looking that far into the NBA future, I see KG probably within a year or 2 of retirement, same as Ray Allen, and Pierce still maybe 3 years to go. All 3 will be well past their prime, and will be center pieces to lure younger all-stars towards a green jersey. I'd love to see a Rondo, Pierce, Lebron, KG, Perkins squad, but at that same time its sad to see the stars we grow up with age and see retirement within clear sight.

[jdub1660]

Speaking of 2010 and big contracts freeing up, I wonder if KG at all regrets for demanding such a huge contract. I know he did that in case Boston flunked out with the BIg 3 expirement, but now that he sees the possibilities of a dynasty, could he feel regret for tying up so much cap space for Boston's future. whether we have 28 mil free or not, it would be even better to have say 35 million instead. Then we could end up with possibly more than 1 big name, possibly 2 or a big name with alot of 2 tier star free agents.

[blazingarrow]

if we land lebron in 2010 im renoucing my fanship faster than i can stop drinking anheuser busch products after they got sold....

hate that guy...

Pierce MVP 2009

If we land Lebron in 2010, I don't think I can change my underwear fast enough.

But maybe it's just a difference of opinion.

I'm more of a Sam Adams guy anyway

[johnnyrondo]

Speaking of 2010 and big contracts freeing up, I wonder if KG at all regrets for demanding such a huge contract. I know he did that in case Boston flunked out with the BIg 3 expirement, but now that he sees the possibilities of a dynasty, could he feel regret for tying up so much cap space for Boston's future. whether we have 28 mil free or not, it would be even better to have say 35 million instead. Then we could end up with possibly more than 1 big name, possibly 2 or a big name with alot of 2 tier star free agents.

I wonder if players ever pay others under the table. Like let's say the C's don't want to give an extra 2 million to Posey, b/c it would count 4 million luxury tax wise, but then Ray and Paul each give a mil? Or let's say Lue wants to sign with the C's. I wonder if the C's offer the minimum, but KG kicks in another mil to his buddy? You'd never hear about this and people are pretty greedy, but I wonder if it ever happens. Arenas just gave up like 16 million to help his team, so it happens. I figure there must be others (but secretly).

On another note, remember when A-Rod wanted to come to the Sox and was reportedly willing to give some money to Hicks to make it happen, but the union said that was not allowed. Well if he really wanted to,why didn't he just do it and not tell anyone? the union would never have known.

[kozlodoev]

Speaking of 2010 and big contracts freeing up, I wonder if KG at all regrets for demanding such a huge contract. I know he did that in case Boston flunked out with the BIg 3 expirement, but now that he sees the possibilities of a dynasty, could he feel regret for tying up so much cap space for Boston's future. whether we have 28 mil free or not, it would be even better to have say 35 million instead. Then we could end up with possibly more than 1 big name, possibly 2 or a big name with alot of 2 tier star free agents.

Excuse me? Garnett took a 33% pay cut on his new contract to come to Boston. What do you expect him to do, sign for the vet minimum so that someone else can get paid?