Would Larry Bird be an All-Star today?

[Finkelskyhook]

In today's NBA, McHale would be a better offensive version of Big Al, while also being the best defensive power forward in the league.  How valuable do you think that guy would be?  He could easily be the centerpiece of a championship team, although obviously (just like any player) you need to put talent around him.

McHale was a great defender as PF, but he wouldn't be better than KG in today's NBA, strictly because KG's defensive ability away from the basket defending the pick and roll would be far superior.  Now McHale was one of the best PFs of his time at getting out on the floor and defending when he needed to, mostly with smarts and excellent positioning, but he didn't have the lateral quickness of KG.  McHale would be in the top three or four PFs defensively today.   

I don't know.  From what I remember, McHale moved pretty well; the team would put him on Dr. J at times, for instance.  Also, just as there are parts of McHale's defensive game that weren't perfect, the same is true of KG.  As great of a player as he is, he still struggles at times against bigger forwards, as witnessed by Gasol's performance in Game 5 in the playoffs.  McHale was a bit stronger than KG, KG is a bit more athletic.  Both are great defenders, but overall, I'd take McHale.

I remember when the Celtics played teams that had talented 3s but slower, less skilled 4s that McHale would draw the assignment of guarding the SF and Bird the PF. McHale guarded Worthy and Bird had Rambis. McHale guarded Dr. J and Bird had Bobby Jones. McHale guarded Bernard King and Bird guarded Louis Orr. These were very common matchups for the 80's Celtics because Bird was such an outstanding positional rebounder that the C's could afford for McHale to guard talent SFs when the matchup for Bird wasn't good.

If there is anybody who thinks that McHale couldn't play in today's NBA, they should look at the main guy Minnesota got from us in the Garnett trade. Big Al is a poor-man's Mchale offensively is averaging 20+ and double digit rebounds. He's a homeless man's McHale defensively is holding his own in today's NBA. 

McHale would be an all star today and probably a greater player than he was then.

[WBrownTrophy]

McHale would fit right in as in all star today. The real difference between then and now is the long range shooters, not inside men. In the 80's shooters were not raised on the 3 pt. line. Now, players have grown up on the 3 pt.line and probably have better skills for that.

[Who]

The NBA is in an in between phase with it's big men right now with guys like Shaq finishing up and stars in the making like Oden beginning to emerge. If McHale was in his prime I'd rate him as the second best big man in the league behind Tim Duncan (Dwight Howard still a bit too easy to stop as Detroit showed) and he could give Timmy a run for his money because Duncan is ageing. McHale would be incredible in today's age.

Parish is another interesting case. With his athleticism, defense, rebounding, good scoring ... he'd be a clear cut All-Star. He'd also be amongst the top 3 centers in the league behind Duncan/Dwight. I'm taking Parish over Yao.

[wdleehi]

Slightly different question.



If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 


The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 


 

I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened to other players just because they could shoot and were not quite as fast as some others. 



(Bird the player we saw would be the best player in the NBA right now)

[Who]

Slightly different question.

If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 

The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 

My expectation in that scenario ..... I think Larry would be Lamar Odom with a great jump shot. A player with great all round skills but also a player who has no idea what to do or how to effect the game when the ball isn't in his hands. Everything would be off the dribble. Odom with a jump shot and killer instinct would be a dominant NBA player but nowhere near the Bird we all know.

[Finkelskyhook]

Lamar Odom with a scrotum would be a top-5 NBA player.

[Redz]

Sorry, but McHale would not have been i/2 of what he was without Bird feeding him like he did. Bird had to be guarded all the way out there so he would sink his treys and Bird always worked on McHale's side, so McHale couldnt be double team so often. Bird made McHale and everybody else in that team. Thats what made him so unique. 

I'd agree more with Bird making Parish better, but not necessarily McHale.  The guy would receive the ball in the post and make a few moves and end up with an open layup or an unblockable fade-away that he hit at a vetry high percentage.  These were shots he was creating on his own.  Parish fed off the pick roll beautifully with Larry on the giving end of a huge amount of Chief's dunks.  Not so much McHale.

[Roy Hobbs]

Slightly different question.

If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 

The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 

My expectation in that scenario ..... I think Larry would be Lamar Odom with a great jump shot. A player with great all round skills but also a player who has no idea what to do or how to effect the game when the ball isn't in his hands. Everything would be off the dribble. Odom with a jump shot and killer instinct would be a dominant NBA player but nowhere near the Bird we all know.

Hmm...  I'm not sure if I agree.  I think Larry had such a unique basketball mind -- which I think was self-taught, rather than coached -- that he'd never struggle off the ball.  I think Larry knew where to get to on the floor, or how to set up his teammates for a perfect pass, etc., not because of coaching or the style he grew up with, but because that's what his instincts told him to do.  I imagine that if Larry came into the league today, he'd still have the highest "basketball IQ" in the league.

[BballTim]

Slightly different question.

If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 

The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 

My expectation in that scenario ..... I think Larry would be Lamar Odom with a great jump shot. A player with great all round skills but also a player who has no idea what to do or how to effect the game when the ball isn't in his hands. Everything would be off the dribble. Odom with a jump shot and killer instinct would be a dominant NBA player but nowhere near the Bird we all know.

  Give Bird a lobotomy and you might end up with Odom with a great jump shot.

[nickagneta]

Slightly different question.



If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 


The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 


 

I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened to other players just because they could shoot and were not quite as fast as some others. 



(Bird the player we saw would be the best player in the NBA right now)

Good question. I mean real good question. Think of some of the talent that went through places like Connecticut, North Carolina and Kansas that were good college players but blossomed into superstars when taken out of the college system and allowed to be more than what the coach wanted them to be.

But if a coach can recognize skills in Adam Morrison to make him into more than just a spot up shooter(let's remember as bad as Morrison is he was a hell of an all around college basketball player), then I'm pretty sure they could recognize the depth of Bird's abilities and refrain from limiting him to playing as just an outside shooter.

Let's also remember how independently hard headed Bird was even in college. If he was on the floor and was being told to play the perimeter, Larry would more than likely improvise himself right out of the outside shooting only role. Besides, he was a devastating rebounder positionally as well.

Couldn't you just see Larry at 21 being told by Pitino in Louisville to play the perimeter and Larry flipping Pitino the Bird(pun intended) and taking control of the game all on his own.

I think your point for a ton of other players is probably right, but Larry always has been a bit of an independent spirit.

[LeeGenius]

Larry Bird torched Scottie Pippen (top 5 greatest defender all time EASILY) in 1991 when he was old and had an arthritic back. 36 points. Triple double.


Larry Bird would be the best all around player in the game if he played today.


The original question is asinine.

[Who]

Slightly different question.

If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 

The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 

My expectation in that scenario ..... I think Larry would be Lamar Odom with a great jump shot. A player with great all round skills but also a player who has no idea what to do or how to effect the game when the ball isn't in his hands. Everything would be off the dribble. Odom with a jump shot and killer instinct would be a dominant NBA player but nowhere near the Bird we all know.

Hmm...  I'm not sure if I agree.  I think Larry had such a unique basketball mind -- which I think was self-taught, rather than coached -- that he'd never struggle off the ball.  I think Larry knew where to get to on the floor, or how to set up his teammates for a perfect pass, etc., not because of coaching or the style he grew up with, but because that's what his instincts told him to do.  I imagine that if Larry came into the league today, he'd still have the highest "basketball IQ" in the league.

LeBron James would has a good IQ and several of the basketball skills that Larry has. He can't effect the game without the ball the way Larry could.

Look at all the small forwards in the league. Who are great off the ball? A healthy number of players. Who are great passers? A good number of players. Who are both great off the ball and great passers? I got nobody. Pierce is probably the best and he's a much better playmaker/passer off the dribble.

Now look at the list of players that can control a game without taking a shot. How many of them are wings who are shooters? How many shooters have a post game? How well are both of those scoring skills (post game+jump shot) used? Rashard Lewis in my opinion has the best post game and jump shot of the small forward class in the NBA and it's not used at all well. Pierce has the next best but he's primarily a mid-post then drive player.

I don't see Larry's game survives the HS coaching and the college coaching. His game would be too effected. I don't see NBA coaches doing much better at the later stage in his game.

[RAcker]

Is this question actually serious?  The answer is a resounding "Hell yes." Next question.

[Roy Hobbs]

Slightly different question.

If Bird was coming up now, would he be the same player? 

The way the game is now played in college, I just keep seeing some coach turning Bird into a three point machine.  His all around game wouldn't be as strong coming into the NBA. 

My expectation in that scenario ..... I think Larry would be Lamar Odom with a great jump shot. A player with great all round skills but also a player who has no idea what to do or how to effect the game when the ball isn't in his hands. Everything would be off the dribble. Odom with a jump shot and killer instinct would be a dominant NBA player but nowhere near the Bird we all know.

Hmm...  I'm not sure if I agree.  I think Larry had such a unique basketball mind -- which I think was self-taught, rather than coached -- that he'd never struggle off the ball.  I think Larry knew where to get to on the floor, or how to set up his teammates for a perfect pass, etc., not because of coaching or the style he grew up with, but because that's what his instincts told him to do.  I imagine that if Larry came into the league today, he'd still have the highest "basketball IQ" in the league.

LeBron James would has a good IQ and several of the basketball skills that Larry has. He can't effect the game without the ball the way Larry could.

Look at all the small forwards in the league. Who are great off the ball? A healthy number of players. Who are great passers? A good number of players. Who are both great off the ball and great passers? I got nobody. Pierce is probably the best and he's a much better playmaker/passer off the dribble.

Now look at the list of players that can control a game without taking a shot. How many of them are wings who are shooters? How many shooters have a post game? How well are both of those scoring skills (post game+jump shot) used? Rashard Lewis in my opinion has the best post game and jump shot of the small forward class in the NBA and it's not used at all well. Pierce has the next best but he's primarily a mid-post then drive player.

I don't see Larry's game survives the HS coaching and the college coaching. His game would be too effected. I don't see NBA coaches doing much better at the later stage in his game.

How many players were great at those skills when Larry was playing, though?  He's a totally unique player, and I think saying "he couldn't do it because none of the current players can" does him a disservice. 

[BballTim]

I don't see Larry's game survives the HS coaching and the college coaching. His game would be too effected. I don't see NBA coaches doing much better at the later stage in his game.

  Larry wasn't the player he was due to coaching. The only way coaching could have affected his game is if he had 5-10 years of Pitino as a coach, or maybe Jphn Thompson. Aside from that he'd be fine.