would you bring back house , pj brown and offer posey something better??

[cmoney]

OK fine.  But can you at least agree that if Powe's and PJ's roles were reversed, we'd be in much better shape?  I mean everything you just mentioned suffers from rather obvious selection bias.  Of course we remember his jam at the end of the 3rd (a great play by him to slide to the open spot, not denying that) more than we remember a bad defensive sequence that leads to putting Turiaf on the line.  Or missed 7 foot jumpers.  Or missed layups after a sweet pass by KG. 

I mean, did no one notice we just could NOT get over the hump while he was out on the floor in the 2nd half, and then Posey subs in for him and it's like 'blamo'?  I thought it was fairly obvious.

[RockinRyA]

i think its too much pj bashing, making things seem worse than they really are..

[EJPLAYA]

I think we all better remember that if it weren't for PJ and a couple of huge games along this playoff run we easily might not be in the finals right now. He is getting as many minutes as he is due to Perk's injuries, not out of Doc wanting him in there this much. He is definitely better in spurts vs most of   the game at this stage in his career, but he is not hurting us like people on here are saying. I'd much rather see him hammer someone at the basket instead of the dunk-a-thon that was going on in the first half of that game. Keep doing what you are doing PJ!

[Finkelskyhook]

I would love to have PJ back if we could afford him to mentor Perk, Powe, and Davis.  PJ just seems like an absolutely solid pro.  If not, he'd make a helluva assistant coach.

He seemed happy in retirement, though. I wouldn't bet he'd sign with anybody.

[Who]

PJ Brown has done a great job for the Celtics. He did a great job for the Bulls last season. He did a great job for the Hornets prior to that.

I'm having very happy having him on board. If he wanted to come back he'd be welcomed with open arms.

[Donoghus]

PJ Brown has done a great job for the Celtics. He did a great job for the Bulls last season. He did a great job for the Hornets prior to that.

I'm having very happy having him on board. If he wanted to come back he'd be welcomed with open arms.

Agree.  I'd love to see PJ back in he wanted to play another season.

[expobear]

OK fine.  But can you at least agree that if Powe's and PJ's roles were reversed, we'd be in much better shape?  I mean everything you just mentioned suffers from rather obvious selection bias.  Of course we remember his jam at the end of the 3rd (a great play by him to slide to the open spot, not denying that) more than we remember a bad defensive sequence that leads to putting Turiaf on the line.  Or missed 7 foot jumpers.  Or missed layups after a sweet pass by KG. 

I mean, did no one notice we just could NOT get over the hump while he was out on the floor in the 2nd half, and then Posey subs in for him and it's like 'blamo'?  I thought it was fairly obvious.

The fact of the matter is Rivers just doesn't trust Powe. Powe should get 10-12 minutes a game minimally and it should be at the expense of Brown.  I think Brown is more effective when he plays less minutes. Right now, in the last 15 playoff games, Brown is averaging about 17+ minutes a games. Powe is averaging 5+ minutes over the same span of games. If these minutes were equalized between the two, I believe the Celtics would be more effective. Of course if the Celtics win tonight or Thursday, it would all be a moot point.

[celticinorlando]

i think brown and cassell will retire and be gone...i think boston needs to sign posey ASAP....house can be replaced...but you gotta keep posey

[payjo]

PJ won game 7 of the Cavs series. I also don't think Powe has the size to guard Gasol as effectively as PJ. I think PJ pairs up better with KG than Powe as well. I love Powe, but this series (game 2 aside) doesn't feel like a great matchup for him.

[expobear]

PJ won game 7 of the Cavs series. I also don't think Powe has the size to guard Gasol as effectively as PJ. I think PJ pairs up better with KG than Powe as well. I love Powe, but this series (game 2 aside) doesn't feel like a great matchup for him.

Powe should be guarding Odom or if it's one of the Laker subs, then Turiaf or Radmanovich. Garnett or Brown should guard Gasol.

[cmoney]

PJ won game 7 of the Cavs series. I also don't think Powe has the size to guard Gasol as effectively as PJ. I think PJ pairs up better with KG than Powe as well. I love Powe, but this series (game 2 aside) doesn't feel like a great matchup for him.

Powe should be guarding Odom or if it's one of the Laker subs, then Turiaf or Radmanovich. Garnett or Brown should guard Gasol.

exactly.  I readily admit that with Perk hurt we NEED some minutes from PJ, just not 25.  He needs to rest KG and/or fill for him if he gets into foul trouble again (god please no).  But if KG is out there D'ing up Gasoft, then Powe is a much better option.  PJ can't keep up with Lamar or keep him off the glass.

I really can't get over how overrated PJ is around here.  He's "nice" to have around I guess.  He's just not very good.  He wasn't for the Bulls.  His last year with the Hornets was his last OK year, but the signs of decline were there.  His rebounding rate, TS%, PER, ORtg, DRtg, etc have all been in steady decline since then.

Citing PJ winning game 7 of the Cavs series is yet another example of selection bias.  It's like when Kobe fanbois talk about "best closer in the game", when he's really anything but, because he shoots his team out of as many games as he wins for them.  We remember the glory, not the failure.  It's reasonable to think that had PJ been replaced by even an average contributor, this series would be over already. 

[carlherrera]

Disclaimer: I am a stat geek!
I believe that basketball is actually similar to baseball in that you can use statistical analysis to understand a player's "true" performance. After all, we track many things that basketball players do like rebounds, steals, fouls, points, etc, etc. This has many benefits like finding great "value" and giving your team a competitive advantage over others in a salary constrained league. (the dollar resources are unfortunately limited).
We saw an increase reliance in stats in baseball in the 90s (and arguably, thanks in part to the father of Sabermetrics - Bill James - the Red Sox have won two World Series) and I think we're beginning to see the same in basketball.
I think this is a good thing as it can give teams that take advantage of it a competitive edge.
There are some more "advanced" stats (like Win Score) that include defense although admittedly not perfect, they do a great job of measuring a player's overall performance.
Now, when we look at Win Score for the Finals, PJ Brown is dead LAST. He's had some good moments but overall he's played poorly. One can argue that playing him so many minutes when you could be playing someone else like Powe is not the best for the team. I don't see why anyone should get upset by that argument.
I loved watching PJ play growing up. He WAS an excellent player. Unfortunately, he's 38 years old now and he just is not as good as he was. He can still play, but I think what some of the posters here are saying is that maybe he should play less minutes so he can be more effective and give the Celtics a higher chance of winning.

[payjo]

PJ won game 7 of the Cavs series. I also don't think Powe has the size to guard Gasol as effectively as PJ. I think PJ pairs up better with KG than Powe as well. I love Powe, but this series (game 2 aside) doesn't feel like a great matchup for him.

Powe should be guarding Odom or if it's one of the Laker subs, then Turiaf or Radmanovich. Garnett or Brown should guard Gasol.

Right. But as was the case in game 5, if Perk can't go and you have to play either Powe or PJ to start, you HAVE to start PJ so KG doesn't burn early fouls guarding Gasol.

[cmoney]

Carl gets what I'm saying.

[payjo]

The stats are the stats, and I agree with them in a vaccuum. However, the edge we get with Powe over PJ in all of the 1 on 1 statistical comparisons is not great enough that I want to risk KG getting in foul trouble while guarding Pau. PJ can guard Pau more effectively than Leon, so IMO, its better to go with PJ (if Perk is unavailable) until you can match up Leon against someone other than Gasol.