Author Topic: Doc won us this game.  (Read 15642 times)

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Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2008, 12:27:51 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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"Coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose"
(Terry Francona)

I like Doc and have supported him all along.  He has developed and improved as a coach over the time he has been with the Celtics.  I am not sure any coach could have gotten an appreciably better result out of this team, this year.  I do not though, think Doc "out coached" Phil this series.  Phil made some nice adjustments, most notably putting Kobe on Rondo and won a game.  Now it was Doc's turn to do his job and he did (spread the floor with shooters).  I think both coaches are doing their jobs pretty well.  The difference is that the Celtics players are better.  I thought Doc played PJ Brown too much last night.  When Posey got his 5th, and Doc put PJ back in, it was the wrong move.  Doc figured this out though finally and put in Powe I think to buy time until he could put Posey back in.

I was really tired last night and almost went to bed.  It is still hard to believe that it played out in almost an anti-climatic fashion.  They just methodically kept chipping away and the Lakers had no answer.

Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2008, 01:00:14 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Doc has absolutely out coached Phil Jackson. I've been a Doc fan (although had my doubts)... but he is coaching circles around the "great" coach Phil Jackson.

Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2008, 01:20:58 PM »

Offline MaineBleedsGreen

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I am really starting to wonder if Ainge was onto something last year when he kept saying "Doc is still a young coach who is learning, just like the player".  At the time, I thought it was all just BS, but now I am not sure. 

The way Doc looked genuinely scared to take chances at the beginning of the playoffs, to the supremely confident coach, pulling all of the right strings in the last two series...well, maybe he had the talent all along, but needed time to reach his potential.

I always thought that Doc needed time to grow as a coach ... but my friend always made a great point saying, "let him do his learning with someone else's team" ... I guess for me it was just as important to stop the revolving door culture with this team, with coaches and players, and stay committed to the decision of having Doc Rivers as our coach. He's really grown up this season, and especially during the playoffs, right in front of our eyes.

Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2008, 01:34:26 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Doc still has been very stubborn - for some bizarre reason - about playing Eddie House, until he was forced to last nite. i think the playoffs would have been a little easier if he had played Eddie all along and just used Cassell for special situations.

The Celtic who has really grown up this year - maybe along with Doc, as he alluded to during press remarks last nite - is Paul Pierce. I have not been a believer in Pierce ..... just didn't think he had the composure or playoff mental toughness to lead this generation's Celtics to a title. He has proved me wrong this season and I am happy for the guy. I think Kevin Garnett has helped Paul as much as anything this season.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2008, 01:59:40 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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I have never been a big Doc fan, but he just cemented his legacy as a very good Celtics coach, as shocked as I am to write that. Tommy noted that this Celtics team became great with that comeback. Well, to me, it simply takes a very good coach to keep a team together to rally back from an 18 point halftime deficit. He trusted his guys, his guys trusted him. Xs and Os and strategy aside, he has done an outstanding job in this series.

As somebody who knocks him when I feel he does a subpar job, I have to praise him now. Good decisions, great leadership - great coaching overall. And while I respect Phil a lot and believe he has made some good decisions, I would agree Doc is outcoaching Phil right now. That Lakers team is showing no heart, no intensity, no focus and some of that has to be attributed to Phil. When he was interviewed after the third, he had absolutely no answers for what was happening, and, based on both his statements and the subsequent play from the Lakers, no answer.

I just want to mention one of Doc's riskiest moves that worked out - when Posey got his fifth foul, he put in Tony Allen. It took an enormous amount of courage and faith to put a guy who hadn't played seemingly any relevant minutes in the entire playoffs, a guy who has a tendency to get out of control and make bad mistakes on the offensive end, into a tight and crucial Finals game. But he knew he had to stay small, because that was working, but not go too small (i.e., Rondo or Cassell). He trusted Tony even though Tony hadn't played. Tony didn't really do much, just exactly what he had to do - not screw anything up. He gave us two good minutes that allowed us to keep pushing, keep up the defensive effort, and keep the floor spread.

And Doc was great with the timing. Because it was so quick, the Lakers never had time to react and say "leave Tony open so he gets the ball in his hands - he's not a good shooter and turns it over a good amount." They simply didn't have time to plan how to play him. TA came in with 2:15 left in the 3rd, and was replaced to start the 4th. The quarter break was the first chance LA would have had to give instructions regarding TA.

The Lakers on the floor probably didn't know what to think about him when he came in for Posey (I don't think they had any focus or scouting on several Celtics' bench players going into the series which is why Powe abused them in Game 2) and they were so used to keeping a body out near Posey that they just assumed they had to do the same with Tony. Two possessions after TA came in, House nailed a three from the corner and I think it was Van Gundy who said "that's what happens when you have four outside shooters on the floor - one of them is gonna get open." I remember thinking TA is not an outside shooter, they could leave him open.

But then I realized Van Gundy doesn't know that because we've seen so little of TA in the playoffs, and chances are, the Lakers didn't realize that either. Had PJ Brown or Leon Powe come in, they couldn't spread the floor. Had Rondo come in, they would have played off him. Had Cassell come in, they would have filtered the ball toward him. But with TA, the Lakers just didn't know what to do, so they just kept a body near him as though he was another shooter they didn't want getting the ball. That contributed at least to that open 3 for House, and may have been a factor in us going on a 10-0 run with TA on the floor. Maybe he was just a good luck charm - even after the foul, Gasol made his first, then TA checked in, and Gasol missed the second. How good will that make TA feel - he played 2 minutes in the Finals, with a +/- of +10.

And to be honest, even if those are the only 2 minutes he plays in the series, that may have been the most important 2 minutes in the most important win of the Finals. The Celtics were pushing the whole third quarter. In the first 2+ minutes, they cut it from 18 to 12. Then the Lakers pushed it to 20 over the next 3 minutes or so, and it stayed there until 6 minutes left in the 3rd (we outscored the Lakers by 26 over the final 18 minutes). We went on an 11-2 run then to cut it to an 11 point lead, but we had previously been unable to get past the 10 point barrier. But because TA allowed Doc to stay small, which was what got it down to 11 (12 after Pau's free throw) in those last 2 minutes when Posey had 5, we were able to close out 10-0 and cut it to 2.  

(Possessions in that stretch - Gasol misses free throw, KG rebound, Pierce three point play with foul on Gasol, Gasol missed dunk, TA rebound, Gasol foul on the floor, House 3 pointer, Kobe missed long 2, Ray Allen rebound, Ray draws foul on Sasha and nails 2 free throws, with PJ coming in for KG in the middle Farmar misses LONG 3 with shot clock winding down, Ray Allen rebound, PJ Brown dunk on a great pass from Pierce. Just a huge stretch.)

It was just a small example of perfect timing by Doc, a great strategic decision to realize they needed to continue that style of play regardless of personnel, and more importantly I thought it showed a lot of guts and trust by Doc, trust that was rewarded by every Celtic. I have never been prouder of this team and I'm really happy for Doc. He personally deserved that win.
Go Celtics.

Re: Doc won us this game.
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2008, 02:03:33 PM »

Offline nelson

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Good job Doc!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Wdleehi -  If celts win another game it would be fitting to take the signature off for good.