Please start Sam vs Detroit!

[Redz]

The only way Ray is going to be out of the starting lineup is if he gets injured or suspended.

Ray shot the ball pretty well for the Celts first 6 games vs. Atlanta.  Their record in those games:  3-3

Ray's gone cold since, shooting just 26 for 83 (31%, and I'm sure worse if you're counting just jumpers). 
Their record during the slump: 6-3

The Celtics clearly can win with Ray in a shooting slump. He is NOT killing the Celtics.  It would be wonderful if he could heat it up, but he there is no evidence that he is killing the team.

[BrickJames]

Redz, who said he was killing us?  What I did say is that if Ray continues to play the way he's playing, you can wave buh-bye to the Celtics' season.

If you don't believe me maybe you will in a week or so.

Waiting 5-10 minutes to bring Allen into the game and benching him are two different things, the latter of which I am by no means a proponent of.

Let Ray watch the first 5-10 minutes, witness the flow of the game, the defensive strategy, mentally prepare himself to rain threes down on the Pistons.

I think it would work.  Whatever Doc and Ray are doing now to prepare certainly isn't.  Apparently, I'm alone.  Actually, if I'm not mistaken, even JVG/Jackson said on Tuesday that someone on the team should give Ray a verbal lashing.

While I agree that verbal abuse isn't necessarily the most productive, delaying Ray's entrance to the game could only work in his favor.  He will be able to attack the weak point in the Pistons' offense.

It's definitely not going to hurt his scoring numbers.....

[crownsy]

in my experiance ripping your trust away from a guy who was pretty good for you all year starting midway through the postseason does little to "light a fire" and everythign to destroy confidence. mabey that works with rookies who don't knwo better, but ray knows he's letting the team down, he doesn't need a slap in his face to "wake him up"

i'm sure ray would accept it, because he's a professional, but it wouldn't :light a fire" under him, he's as ticked off at his preformance as everyone else, he's reportedly shooting many extra hours a day to try to get his stroke back...

Benching ray right now is the equivelnt of saying "sorry man, mabey next year, we don't belive in you to get it done."

Waiting 5-10 minutes to bring Allen into the game and benching him are two different things, the latter of which I am by no means a proponent of.

Let Ray watch the first 5-10 minutes, witness the flow of the game, the defensive strategy, mentally prepare himself to rain threes down on the Pistons.

I think it would work.  Whatever Doc and Ray are doing now to prepare certainly isn't.  Apparently, I'm alone.  Actually, if I'm not mistaken, even JVG/Jackson said on Tuesday that someone on the team should give Ray a verbal lashing.

While I agree that verbal abuse isn't necessarily the most productive, delaying Ray's entrance to the game could only work in his favor.  He will be able to attack the weak point in the Pistons' offense.

It's definitely not going to hurt his scoring numbers.....

you are msitaken, what they said was, after ray passed up a shot, that doc should pull him aside and tell him to keep shooting, and that the only way he would ever lose faith in him was if he got gun shy.

and, if your point is just to bring sam in for 5-10 minutes to start a game, which would put us at a tremndous disadvantage vs rip, either through rondo gaurding him or sam, since both are not wizards at fighting through screens, and at ray is average at least, then why not just make sam ray's backup instead?

i see little value in ripping the starting role away from ray to put in a guy who is in a much worse shooting slump and couldn't keep boobie gibson in front of him, to the point that his head coach benched him adn calle dhis defense "a nightmare"

[kenmaine]

NO way. BUT, I'd sit Ray after nine or ten minutes and leave him on the bench the rest of the game if he doesn't start hitting some shots. If he pouts, tough tootsies! It would be a good opportunity for him to show he's really a team player.
I prefer Pierce, Posey, and TA(for ten minutes, why not?) at the two guard right now.
Should Sam get another chance? Possibly, but for short minutes and hope that he plays well. He's certainly capable, maybe it's just age?
This is the playoffs, it's not about Sam's or Ray's feelings, or how great a career they've each had.  They're both playing horribly. Ray seems to have more apologists, I'm not sure why. There's no need to either crucify or defend them, I just think that neither one is helping the team win, which is the main idea. 
So to put it briefly, start Ray, and if he stinks again, take him out early and go to plan B. I'm not sure what plan B is exactly, but there are plenty of capable players on the roster.

 

[BrickJames]

i see little value in ripping the starting role away from ray to put in a guy who is in a much worse shooting slump and couldn't keep boobie gibson in front of him, to the point that his head coach benched him adn calle dhis defense "a nightmare"

You are mistaken: Doc called the matchup a nightmare.  For Doc to ask a guy (who is hurt in his own right) to guard a guy 15 years younger who is quicker than he ever was was a coaching mistake.

This matchup against Billups bodes well for Cassell.  He knows how to play and defend Billups' style of game.  Those of you who fail to recognize this are simply wrong, I don't know what else to say.

Rondo can more than handle Rip, if the refs allow him to.

Whatever I've made my points - if the rest of you want to keep taking things out of context go right ahead.

Start Sam!

[Redz]

Redz, who said he was killing us?  What I did say is that if Ray continues to play the way he's playing, you can wave buh-bye to the Celtics' season.

If you don't believe me maybe you will in a week or so.

Waiting 5-10 minutes to bring Allen into the game and benching him are two different things, the latter of which I am by no means a proponent of.

Let Ray watch the first 5-10 minutes, witness the flow of the game, the defensive strategy, mentally prepare himself to rain threes down on the Pistons.

I think it would work.  Whatever Doc and Ray are doing now to prepare certainly isn't.  Apparently, I'm alone.  Actually, if I'm not mistaken, even JVG/Jackson said on Tuesday that someone on the team should give Ray a verbal lashing.

While I agree that verbal abuse isn't necessarily the most productive, delaying Ray's entrance to the game could only work in his favor.  He will be able to attack the weak point in the Pistons' offense.

It's definitely not going to hurt his scoring numbers.....

Sorry, you didn't say he was killing us, you said he would kill us.  I stand corrected. 

I still don't see the evidence that his slump will kill us.  I see lots of pluses if he can pull out of the slump, and I certainly hope he does, but beyond a gut feeling that his slump will be the Celtics downfall I don't see the evidence that it should.

If either Pierce and KG go cold too, and Allen stays in a slump, then we may have issues.

[Chris]

Rondo can more than handle Rip, if the refs allow him to.

I agree that Cassell can handle Billups (for the most part), with his intelligence and wilyness, however, I strongly disagree that Rondo can handle Rip. 

Rip would have a field day against Rondo, because when he is not posting him up, he would be playing exactly to Rondo's weakness.  Rondo has a lot of trouble getting around picks.  He often gets caught up on them, and when he doesn't, he takes a bad angle around them, ariving a step too late to his man.  That is Hamilton's game.  He loves to take his man off picks, and then use his quick release, or a quick upfake on the guy trying to catch up with him to take a step closer.

Allen on the other hand is excellent at getting through picks, which is why he has given Rip so much trouble.  He may not be the most skilled defender, but he understands where Hamilton is going, and he often beats him to the spot, and is able to deny him the ball.

[johnnyrondo]

Ray Allen is in a terrible slump.  Chauncey Billups, while old and wiley, is hurt.  Rondo is guarding Hamilton anyway.

Start Sam!  Let him get 5-10 minutes so he won't be completely ice cold if we ever need him late in the game during this series.  Continue to bring in House if it's appropriate, but let Ray come off the bench as the primary guard with something to prove.  Ray is definitely not true to form, but we need him to be if we are going to win this series and possibly the next one.

Sam is a perfect matchup for Billups - they are practically the same player.  Doc has always used the argument that he tweaks his rotation based on matchups.  If this is true, then there's no reason not to do this.

Of course, the primary offensive point guard duties would remain with RONDO.

Start Sam!
Go Celtics!

yeah great idea lets change up the line up that we only won 66 games and 2 playoff series. Lets start gabe pruit while were at it.

Gabe Pruitt is a rookie who didn't play all year.  Sam Cassell is a proven veteran with clutch and playoff credentials.  We acquired him specifically for this reason.

We already saw Lindsey Hunter disturb House to the point that he doesn't bring the ball up when he's in there.

Ray Allen can't guard Billups if Billups is on - Cassell can.  If Rondo is going to continue to guard Hamilton, then it makes perfect sense to start Cassell.  Cassell would be getting minutes if our fans didn't complain every time he missed a shot and tried to scapegoat him for everything.

Ray Allen is also 0 for his last 17 if you remove his layups.  Why keep him in there?  Why not hold a grudge against him too?

The lack of logic being employed here makes very little sense.

That's pretty cool that Sam Cassell is now a memeber of Celticsblog! It's like when Youk and schilling started posting on sonsofsamhorn. But Sam, why did you choose the name BrickJames? Was BrickSam already taken or is James your alien middle name?

[wdleehi]

I have to ask this one more time.



What did Billups do game 1 that would call for such a change?

[rathcor]

I have to ask this one more time.



What did Billups do game 1 that would call for such a change?

I am with you wdleehi

[RAcker]

I have to ask this one more time.



What did Billups do game 1 that would call for such a change?

Thank you.    No coach does this when a dead eye shooter gets in a slump. We live or die with who we won 66 games with. 

This thread is baffling.


edit - the personal jab is unnecessary - wdleehi

[CLeht11]

Starting Ray Allen and then benching him after few minutes isn't going to do anything for his confidence.  He needs to be on the floor SHOOTING out of the slump.  If he isn't shooting the ball, he will never come out of this slump.  He has a sky high basketball IQ, he can play defense and also slash to the rack.  Just because he isn't knocking down jumpshots doesn't mean we are heading up creek without a paddle.

If you start Cassell and he is cold... you get essentially nothing.  He can't play defense and he really can't initiate the Celtic offense - something that Ray does and will continue to do no matter how he is playing.  He's on a slump but you really have to recognize what else he brings besides shooting the ball. The Starting 5 will not change for the rest of this season, I can almost guarantee it - and it shouldn't.

[EJPLAYA]

Dumbest idea ever. Sit a great player who has done nothing but what you asked of him all year to show him a lesson about missing shots... You don't do that to a shooter. You give him MORE shots to show him you believe in him and know he is going to hit them.

As far as putting someone in there, if you were going to do it then Sam is a horrible choice. He can't even shoot as well as Ray has been and brings absolutely nothing else to the floor. I don't even buy  the bringing the ball up the floor issue either. Hamilton was locking down Ray and PP when they were bringing it up. Those refs were letting him get away with getting right up under them and hitting them with those uppercut jabs at the ball without a foul call. If they let him do that then no one can bring it up without it being tough. House was just smart enough to get it to PP who at least had a size advantage on Hamilton.

[dpaps]

Ray Allen is in a terrible slump.  Chauncey Billups, while old and wiley, is hurt.  Rondo is guarding Hamilton anyway.

Start Sam!  Let him get 5-10 minutes so he won't be completely ice cold if we ever need him late in the game during this series.  Continue to bring in House if it's appropriate, but let Ray come off the bench as the primary guard with something to prove.  Ray is definitely not true to form, but we need him to be if we are going to win this series and possibly the next one.

Sam is a perfect matchup for Billups - they are practically the same player.  Doc has always used the argument that he tweaks his rotation based on matchups.  If this is true, then there's no reason not to do this.

Of course, the primary offensive point guard duties would remain with RONDO.

Start Sam!
Go Celtics!

yeah great idea lets change up the line up that we only won 66 games and 2 playoff series. Lets start gabe pruit while were at it.

Gabe Pruitt is a rookie who didn't play all year.  Sam Cassell is a proven veteran with clutch and playoff credentials.  We acquired him specifically for this reason.

We already saw Lindsey Hunter disturb House to the point that he doesn't bring the ball up when he's in there.

Ray Allen can't guard Billups if Billups is on - Cassell can.  If Rondo is going to continue to guard Hamilton, then it makes perfect sense to start Cassell.  Cassell would be getting minutes if our fans didn't complain every time he missed a shot and tried to scapegoat him for everything.

Ray Allen is also 0 for his last 17 if you remove his layups.  Why keep him in there?  Why not hold a grudge against him too?

The lack of logic being employed here makes very little sense.

That's pretty cool that Sam Cassell is now a memeber of Celticsblog! It's like when Youk and schilling started posting on sonsofsamhorn. But Sam, why did you choose the name BrickJames? Was BrickSam already taken or is James your alien middle name?

Haha every clause in this post is funny. TP for sure. I mean I understand the idea of bringing Ray off the bench. In the early games against cleveland when posey was playing such good D on LBJ I thought it would have been a good idea to start PP at the 2 and Posey at the 3. We could then use Ray kind of like the Spurs use Manu most of the season. 6th man, but plays like 35 min a night still and finishes the games. I don't think this is the time to do it though nor do I think Cassell is the one to start in his place. Atleast not while the team looked so good in game 1. If Ray continues to struggle, I like the idea of him coming off the bench and playing against the 2nd unit, but not now.

[Roy Hobbs]

Thrusting several players into new roles at this point seems counter productive to me.  Start Ray and Rondo, bring Eddie in as a situational sub for both, and bench Cassell until things break down.