At what point do the KG - Sheed comparisons stop?

[Roy Hobbs]

Seriously, KG and Sheed aren't at all mirror images of each other. One of them has a NBA Championship ring and the other one doesn't.

Look before people think I'm just trolling here, I'm a lifetime Celtics fan and was enthused to see KG playing so aggressively last night. But I am trying to counter this thread's absurd disrepect of Sheed's game and lionizing of KG. For instance:

But yes, Rasheed is about as much a "mirror" for KG as, say, Jason Richardson is for Kobe.  They do a lot of the same things, but KG does everything better.

Look, KG, especially presently, may be better than Sheed. KG is also a tiny bit younger though. And given their stats, their style of play, their fiery temperments and renown for defense, it's hard to make a case that they are too dissimilar. They are often both criticized for the same tendency to drift away from the post, and not dominate inside. Both get criticized as such for then being soft. But KG does everything so much better? I have to counter by saying the proof is on the ring finger. While KG's TWolves amassed the best record in the Western Conference in 2003-4, they lost to the Lakers in 6 in the WCF. On the other hand, the Detroit Pistons were not even the best team in their conference and were considered (especially at that time) less than able to beat the Lakers. And you all know what happened, Sheed and the Pistons beat the same Lakers team that dispatched KG's Wolves with relative ease, winning in 5.

My point being, you may dislike Sheed, you may even be correct that KG is presently better, but don't disrespect Sheed's game and claim KG is head and shoulders better. They are certainly not too far off statistically, defensively, and crticism-wise, and right now, Sheed has a big gold trophy on his resume that KG does not, against a team, no less, that KG could not beat.

Ease up on that Kool-Aid y'all, it's just been one, thankfully good, game.

Career scoring average: KG 20.4, Rasheed 15.2
Career rebounding average: KG 11.2, Rasheed 6.9
Career assist average: KG 4.4, Rasheed 1.9
Career blocks average: KG 1.7, Rasheed 1.4
Career steals average: KG 1.4, Rasheed 1.0
Career FG%: KG 49.4%, Rasheed 47.4%

All-star Games:  KG 11, Rasheed 4
MVP awards: KG 1, Rasheed 0
All-NBA team: KG 9, Rasheed 0
DPOY awards: KG 1, Rasheed 0
All-defense team: KG 9, Rasheed 0
Top ten in MVP voting: KG 7, Rasheed 0
Rebounding titles: KG 4, Rasheed 0
Led league in defensive rebounds: KG 5, Rasheed 0
Led league in total scoring: KG 1, Rasheed 0
Led league in PER: KG 2, Rasheed 0

Come on.  Rasheed isn't even close to KG's level. 

Pretty soon, they're going to have the same number of championships, too, despite Rasheed being surrounded by much, much better teammates until this year.

[Birdbrain]

That's a fallacy.   Part of being a superstar is actually acting like a superstar.  Sorry just cause he can make a 3 and make a turn around 5 footer doesn't make him talented.  He's has no where near that athletic ability that KG has.  Not even close.

Did I mention not even close.

[RebusRankin]

KG did come up short against the Lakers in 04 but that was without his pg and the team's second best player in Cassell. He also didn't have his back-up pg T-Hud. If Cassell is healthy that year, Wolves win the title and the ring argument is moot.

[Roy Hobbs]

KG did come up short against the Lakers in 04 but that was without his pg and the team's second best player in Cassell. He also didn't have his back-up pg T-Hud. If Cassell is healthy that year, Wolves win the title and the ring argument is moot.

Plus, Rasheed came up short his fair share against the Lakers, as well, when he played in Portland.  They lost to the Lakers four times in the playoffs.

[CT34]

Seriously, KG and Sheed aren't at all mirror images of each other. One of them has a NBA Championship ring and the other one doesn't.

Look before people think I'm just trolling here, I'm a lifetime Celtics fan and was enthused to see KG playing so aggressively last night. But I am trying to counter this thread's absurd disrepect of Sheed's game and lionizing of KG. For instance:

But yes, Rasheed is about as much a "mirror" for KG as, say, Jason Richardson is for Kobe.  They do a lot of the same things, but KG does everything better.

Look, KG, especially presently, may be better than Sheed. KG is also a tiny bit younger though. And given their stats, their style of play, their fiery temperments and renown for defense, it's hard to make a case that they are too dissimilar. They are often both criticized for the same tendency to drift away from the post, and not dominate inside. Both get criticized as such for then being soft. But KG does everything so much better? I have to counter by saying the proof is on the ring finger. While KG's TWolves amassed the best record in the Western Conference in 2003-4, they lost to the Lakers in 6 in the WCF. On the other hand, the Detroit Pistons were not even the best team in their conference and were considered (especially at that time) less than able to beat the Lakers. And you all know what happened, Sheed and the Pistons beat the same Lakers team that dispatched KG's Wolves with relative ease, winning in 5.

My point being, you may dislike Sheed, you may even be correct that KG is presently better, but don't disrespect Sheed's game and claim KG is head and shoulders better. They are certainly not too far off statistically, defensively, and crticism-wise, and right now, Sheed has a big gold trophy on his resume that KG does not, against a team, no less, that KG could not beat.

Ease up on that Kool-Aid y'all, it's just been one, thankfully good, game.

Career scoring average: KG 20.4, Rasheed 15.2
Career rebounding average: KG 11.2, Rasheed 6.9
Career assist average: KG 4.4, Rasheed 1.9
Career blocks average: KG 1.7, Rasheed 1.4
Career steals average: KG 1.4, Rasheed 1.0
Career FG%: KG 49.4%, Rasheed 47.4%

All-star Games:  KG 11, Rasheed 4
MVP awards: KG 1, Rasheed 0
All-NBA team: KG 9, Rasheed 0
DPOY awards: KG 1, Rasheed 0
All-defense team: KG 9, Rasheed 0
Top ten in MVP voting: KG 7, Rasheed 0
Rebounding titles: KG 4, Rasheed 0
Led league in defensive rebounds: KG 5, Rasheed 0
Led league in total scoring: KG 1, Rasheed 0
Led league in PER: KG 2, Rasheed 0

Come on.  Rasheed isn't even close to KG's level. 

Pretty soon, they're going to have the same number of championships, too, despite Rasheed being surrounded by much, much better teammates until this year.

Rasheed has played on some loaded team where he wasn't even the first options.  When he came into the league he was on a team with Chris Webber and Howard. Then in Portland he played with a bunch of me first guys.  It's easy to put up monster the numbers on a bad team if you a player with talent and have the skill set of KG.  But Rasheed has been on teams that have been loaded with talent.  So if you want to play the numbers game you can.  However I think it if Rasheed wasn't such a head case he would have been added to more all-star games.  My think is if you ask people in the league who tougher player to cover KG or Rasheed I think most people would say Rasheed.  

[CT34]

KG did come up short against the Lakers in 04 but that was without his pg and the team's second best player in Cassell. He also didn't have his back-up pg T-Hud. If Cassell is healthy that year, Wolves win the title and the ring argument is moot.

Plus, Rasheed came up short his fair share against the Lakers, as well, when he played in Portland.  They lost to the Lakers four times in the playoffs.

Rasheed Wallace has played in 7 CF. KG has only played in 2.  Rasheed Wallace has 1 ring and KG has none.  You can look at stats all you want too and to me All-star games is more about how popular you are then anything else.  The won stat that counts the most to me is if you was a winner or not.  Wallace is a proven winner year in and year out.  KG hasn't won anything yet.

[Birdbrain]

Ugh I'm sure they would use that same lame excuse about him not playing to the best of his ability.  He's playing his best he just not even close to as good as Garnett.  And if they said he was tougher to guard they are lying or wrong.  The proof is in the numbers and head to head match ups.    Not close no way.  Seriously did you even look at the stats that were posted?  Think all you want.

Did you seriously go to who won more?

Really so Prince is better than Paul?  Do you know how many holes can be shot in the argument?

[crownsy]

that excuse accounts for his scoring, i suppose. what about his rebounds? rasheed should be a 10 board a night guy, but he isn't, because he doesn't have the desiere to be.

some of his other stats don't play with this excuse either. he's a good passer, yet on these stacked teams you speak of, he never managed to average 2 assists. odd.

[Roy Hobbs]

Rasheed Wallace has played in 7 CF. KG has only played in 2.  Rasheed Wallace has 1 ring and KG has none.  You can look at stats all you want too and to me All-star games is more about how popular you are then anything else.  The won stat that counts the most to me is if you was a winner or not.  Wallace is a proven winner year in and year out.  KG hasn't won anything yet.

Steve Kerr won five championships.  John Stockton won zero.

Clearly, Kerr was the better player.

[crownsy]

KG did come up short against the Lakers in 04 but that was without his pg and the team's second best player in Cassell. He also didn't have his back-up pg T-Hud. If Cassell is healthy that year, Wolves win the title and the ring argument is moot.

Plus, Rasheed came up short his fair share against the Lakers, as well, when he played in Portland.  They lost to the Lakers four times in the playoffs.

Rasheed Wallace has played in 7 CF. KG has only played in 2.  Rasheed Wallace has 1 ring and KG has none.  You can look at stats all you want too and to me All-star games is more about how popular you are then anything else.  The won stat that counts the most to me is if you was a winner or not.  Wallace is a proven winner year in and year out.  KG hasn't won anything yet.

not to nitpick, because i think some of that holds true, at least for seven more W's, but how is wallace a proven winner "year in and year out" they are 1/6. so for 5 years, he was the loser.

[Birdbrain]

There was that epic collapse in Portland which again was in the WCF so he's still a winner by CT34 definition.

[NoraG1]

Rasheed Wallace has played in 7 CF. KG has only played in 2.  Rasheed Wallace has 1 ring and KG has none.  You can look at stats all you want too and to me All-star games is more about how popular you are then anything else.  The won stat that counts the most to me is if you was a winner or not.  Wallace is a proven winner year in and year out.  KG hasn't won anything yet.

Steve Kerr won five championships.  John Stockton won zero.

Clearly, Kerr was the better player.

Good point. I hate when people use rings etc. as why a player is supposedly better. Horry is better then Stockton, Barkley and KG etc. because he has a few rings then too. It is a argument that just does not work imo. There are alot of things that factor into getting rings like teams. This is not an individual sport.

[RebusRankin]

Jud Buchler has 3 rings, does that make him better than Sheed? KG?

Greg Kite has a ring, Ewing doesn't so ergo Kite was the better center.

[BballTim]

Rasheed has played on some loaded team where he wasn't even the first options.  When he came into the league he was on a team with Chris Webber and Howard. Then in Portland he played with a bunch of me first guys.  It's easy to put up monster the numbers on a bad team if you a player with talent and have the skill set of KG.  But Rasheed has been on teams that have been loaded with talent.  So if you want to play the numbers game you can.  However I think it if Rasheed wasn't such a head case he would have been added to more all-star games.  My think is if you ask people in the league who tougher player to cover KG or Rasheed I think most people would say Rasheed. 

  KG seems to have a higher fg% than Sheed. How much harder to guard can he be? And his fg% should be well higher than KG's because he's been on those "loaded" teams. KG and Paul both shot better than their career averages since they weren't the main focus of the defense. Ray's was the same as his career average, but higher than 4 of his last 5 seasons. If Sheed had been the main focus of the defense (like KG always has been) his fg% (already lower than KG's) would be lower still. Tougher to cover, but easier to stop...

[the_Bird]

They're both extremely emotional players.

KG has been able to channel those emotions into a force that makes him one of the all-time greats.

'Sheed, as often as not, lets his emotions completely take him out of the game.  His emotions, as often as not, have worked to his detriment.

As to the issue about one-ring-versus-none, I'm of the opinion that Detroit's title in '04 had a lot more to do with LA coming apart at the seams than the Pistons being a superior team.  If LA takes care of business that year like expected, isn't Detroit just the NBA's answer to the Atlanta Braves?  How clutch are they, really?