Possibility of KG and Perk suspensions (merged)

[X Man]

Everyone needs to remember Stern's defense against suspensions of this kind. He always says that it is the letter of the law and that the rule will be enforced and it doesn't matter how small of a step the player takes, the player took a step.

He used it last year. He used it in the Miami/NY fight years ago and cost a team a possible championship. He is heartless inthese matters and [dang] the consequences.

You have to remember that.

To me, that's a huge problem.  Why have human beings reviewing film just to follow the rules by the letter without any value being placed on context?  Its almost like having a cop arrest you and sentence you on the spot (or a day later after reviewing film of the arrest).  In real life, the judge and jury are there to review the "facts of the case" to see if the law is applicable on each individual case. 

IMO The league is so concerned about being completely impartial that now this hands off approach is really hurting the game...   

[Big Ticket]

I think it will come down to whether or not the NBA can deem if KG knew it was Ed Rush or not.  I read that the rule calls for a suspension when a player "knowingly" makes physical contact with a referee during an altercation.  It's also usually meant during a player-referee altercation, not a player-player altercation.

[Who]

I don't think there'll be any suspensions. I especially don't think Perk or Marvin will, KG? Maybe, there's a decent shot but probably not. I think KG is the most likely to be suspended of the three.

Anyway it won't matter much, the Celtics can beat Atlanta without KG.

i actually go the opposite on this with Perk and WIlliams more likely on the technicality issue and KG not because for all he knew it was a teammate or a coach grabbing him and not a ref..

but i do agree that regardless, game 5 is going to be a good one for us and if KG is not there, i think Pierce is going to go off.

Ditto on Pierce. I think Ray too, and Rondo will be freed up to beat Bibby senseless off the dribble. They can easily beat the Hawks without KG. Heck they might even do a better job of attacking the Hawks weaknesses without Kevin there.

I think KG has a shot just because of the ref and huff that's going to put up. Little elbow, altercation, going back and starting the altercation again, then the ref. It was mild enough but Stern might want to stamp it out, so there's shot but I don't think a suspension is more likely not to happen than to happen.

Perkins and Marvin didn't run out onto the floor, they stepped a inch over the out of bounds line. There was never any threat of either joining or trying to join. Perkins was already up and shouting, he took one step, stood still and watched what was happening. The coaches never needed to restrain him.

Amare ran off the bench and did get to the outer edges of the skirmish, he did escalate the situation. Perk didn't, either did Marvin. That's why I think they're fairly safe for avoiding suspensions.

[IowaGuy]

I agree with the OP 100%.  But the rules are the rules and we have to play by them.  I say we start Scal and tell him to use his 6 fouls in the first quarter.  all hard fouls, all on JJ & JS.  Anytime they try to drive Scal should send them to the deck.  They don't have to be dirty fouls just let Scal be Scal and he'll get the job done.  Scal know's how to foul good and hard (ask perkins).  It's bush league but that's what the NBA is now days.  The scrubs get the advantage.  We need to use our scrubs. 

[yall hate]

the problem with this is that if KG is suspended it will be for his contact with an official.   That was his own choice and own action.  no matter how riled up you are, it is one thing you know you arent allowed to do.  you could make the argument that a failure to suspend KG would set a dangerous precedent since you are allowing players (who are significantly larger then refs) to not only put them in danger, but also undermine their authority.  it is likely for that reason that kg will be suspended.

[crownsy]

how exactly was it his choice to be grabbed from behind by an offical again?

and what was so terrable about freeing his arms from whoever was behind him? there's no way he could have known who it was.

[IowaGuy]

Kg's contact with the ref was not his own choice...the ref came after him and tried to bear huge him.  What choice does that involve besides being on the court?  It's not the refs job to physically restrain a player which is what eddie F rush did.  They are suppose to get between the players and clam them down. he got between them and then grabbed KG and tried to move him away. 

[crownsy]

Seems odd theres no word out of the league office as we approach 1 pm.

They do ahve to tell us today right? to give us a day to get ready?

I thought any displine would break around noon, so as to give teams a chance to alter game plans...

anyone know if there's a deadline?

[Section 87]

I think it will come down to whether or not the NBA can deem if KG knew it was Ed Rush or not.  I read that the rule calls for a suspension when a player "knowingly" makes physical contact with a referee during an altercation.  It's also usually meant during a player-referee altercation, not a player-player altercation.

I read that the word "knowingly" is not part of the rule. And I can tell you where I read it. In the NBA rules. However, "intentionally" is included in the rule for suspension. The rule for a technical (12 V C (2)) is not qualified by the word "intentional." The photo shows Garnett grasping Rush's arm with both hands. It looks bad for Garnett. The rules clearly call for a technical foul for "physically contacting an official". However, the rule calling for a suspension (Comments II E) includes the word "intentionally."

Perkins's situation is that he left the bench area and walked toward the altercation. That looks bad for Perkins. The rules do call for a suspension for a player leaving "the immmediate vicinity of the bench" during an altercation. Pachulio's head-butt may also earn him something, but I don't see a rule calling for suspension for a head-butt.

[CelticsWhat35]

Does anyone have video of the 2005 playoff game against the Pacers that led to Antoine's suspension?  I'm having trouble remembering how that all went down.

[yall hate]

how exactly was it his choice to be grabbed from behind by an offical again?

and what was so terrable about freeing his arms from whoever was behind him? there's no way he could have known who it was.

The issue isnt him being restrained by an official (which is within the rules).  it has to do with him trying to free himself from the restraint by being physical with an official (which is against the rules).

Go back and rewatch it, he knew it was a ref because he was looking at him.

Kg's contact with the ref was not his own choice...the ref came after him and tried to bear huge him.  What choice does that involve besides being on the court?  It's not the refs job to physically restrain a player which is what eddie F rush did.  They are suppose to get between the players and clam them down. he got between them and then grabbed KG and tried to move him away. 

KG was restrained, he was not given a bear hug.  it was his choice to try and remove himself by being physical.  that is against the rules.  the ref has to keep the players seperate.  


rather then being delusional and blindly supporting our players, we should look at the rule and the situation objectively, since that is the very least the nba is going to do.  KG violated the rule.

[PaulPierce34G]

I don't think Garnett will be suspended for the elbow to Pachulia.  Kidd, it turns out, won't be suspended for his flagrant on Pargo...so, if you have to make a comparison, KG shouldn't get suspended for his physical contact with Pachulia.  However, I am sure, the NBA reviews each case on its own merit.  In regard to the contact with the ref, that could be the thing that does KG in for a suspension.  However, it seems the league is being a bit lenient with the suspensions this post-season and maybe they will let this slide.  I know the rule is strictly no physical contact with the refs, but it was not as if KG jerked the ref and flung him half way across the court.  As someone else posted earlier, I think the league will try to determine if Garnett was fully aware it was the ref he was trying to remove from himself or not.

"Any player or coach guilty of intentional physical contact with an official shall automatically be suspended without pay for one game. A fine and/or longer period of suspension will result if circumstances so dictate."  http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_e.html?nav=ArticleList

Williams & Perkins are most likely suspended.  The rule is the rule, I guess.  We will all just have to wait and see how this one plays out.

[ma11l]

The picture makes it look a lot worse than the video does.  If the NBA suspends KG for that than I have lost all faith in the league, and there wasn't much left after the Donaghy debacle.  Luckily we had a good record without KG during the regular season...

[NoraG1]

I don't think Garnett will be suspended for the elbow to Pachulia.  Kidd, it turns out, won't be suspended for his flagrant on Pargo...so, if you have to make a comparison, KG shouldn't get suspended for his physical contact with Pachulia.  However, I am sure, the NBA reviews each case on its own merit.  In regard to the contact with the ref, that could be the thing that does KG in for a suspension.  However, it seems the league is being a bit lenient with the suspensions this post-season and maybe they will let this slide.  I know the rule is strictly no physical contact with the refs, but it was not as if KG jerked the ref and flung him half way across the court.  As someone else posted earlier, I think the league will try to determine if Garnett was fully aware it was the ref he was trying to remove from himself or not.

"Any player or coach guilty of intentional physical contact with an official shall automatically be suspended without pay for one game. A fine and/or longer period of suspension will result if circumstances so dictate."  http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_e.html?nav=ArticleList

Williams & Perkins are most likely suspended.  The rule is the rule, I guess.  We will all just have to wait and see how this one plays out.

What I still don't understand is why is the ref allowed to restrain a player.   He was grabbed from behind and restrained by a ref but somehow KG should get suspended from trying to get away from someone restraining him physically? I guess I don't understand how KG should be suspended for that. If anything the ref has some explaining to do imo. Someone also brought up the point that if what KG did was worth a suspention,  where was the ejection? The ref obviously did not think that merited one.

[crownsy]

how exactly was it his choice to be grabbed from behind by an offical again?

and what was so terrable about freeing his arms from whoever was behind him? there's no way he could have known who it was.

The issue isnt him being restrained by an official (which is within the rules).  it has to do with him trying to free himself from the restraint by being physical with an official (which is against the rules).

Go back and rewatch it, he knew it was a ref because he was looking at him.

Kg's contact with the ref was not his own choice...the ref came after him and tried to bear huge him.  What choice does that involve besides being on the court?  It's not the refs job to physically restrain a player which is what eddie F rush did.  They are suppose to get between the players and clam them down. he got between them and then grabbed KG and tried to move him away. 

KG was restrained, he was not given a bear hug.  it was his choice to try and remove himself by being physical.  that is against the rules.  the ref has to keep the players seperate.  


rather then being delusional and blindly supporting our players, we should look at the rule and the situation objectively, since that is the very least the nba is going to do.  KG violated the rule.

uh it is certainly against no rule to try to remove yourself from someone restrainign you when you have NO IDEA who is holding you. Not on this planet anyway.