Paul George was more efficient than JB last year

[ozgod]

The biggest thing Jaylen haters point to is the advanced metrics - specifically the on-off stats. Jaylen's on-off stats haven't been great his whole career - like he's only been in the top 50% of wings 3 seasons out of 10, and he's been in the bottom 20% percentile 3 of the past 4 seasons, including his favorite season last season when he was in the bottom 24th %ile.

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If you compare him to Tatum, Tatum's on off metrics are much better, even last season when he only played 16 games he was in the top 68th %ile of wings in on-off metrics.

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And the salary dump we are getting, PG0 (I mean PG13) has much better on-off metrics:

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This might be clutching at straws to defend the indefensible, but those advanced metrics are probably something that the Celtics took into account in making the trade - but they probably weren't the be-all end-all, it was probably that, along with a possible relationship breakdown between JB and the front office, and a possible alpha dog conflict between JT and JB this season, which might have brought back unpleasant memories of 2018-19, along with a reluctance to extend JB to another supermax, which brought about this trade.

[goCeltics]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

[ozgod]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

It still doesn't explain the disparity between JT and JB, and the percentiles are ranked for all wings in the NBA for a certain number of minutes. If it was one season you could explain it away but multiple seasons make it harder to find basketball reasons why his on-off numbers are historically worse than his peers.

[goCeltics]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

It still doesn't explain the disparity between JT and JB, and the percentiles are ranked for all wings in the NBA for a certain number of minutes. If it was one season you could explain it away but multiple seasons make it harder to find basketball reasons why his on-off numbers are historically worse than his peers.

The picks aren't worth the 100+ million in salary for someone that has missed more games than he has played the last 2 years and is 36 years old.  There is no way to excuse it for Brad. Sorry. You can't be efficient while your butt is on the bench most of the time

[trickybilly]

Yeah, I'm coming around to this trade in the circumstances now actually. Gonna be a really nice expiring contract next year. George might surprise, but depends on his health obv.

I'm more bugged out with the Mitchell Rob signing.

[kraidstar]

Paul George is 36, people. And he sucks and has always sucked in games that matter. He can't impose his will physically anymore, either. Not at a playoff level. He'll get exposed just like he did against New York.

This team will be out in the first round.

I'd much rather have traded for an expiring deal with more picks than take back a player who will put us on the treadmill.

Catastrophic trade.

[Jiri Welsch]

My two cents ? George is still a good shooter (a solid step below 50/40/90, but still good) who has naturally great length which can be an asset on D.

He?s incapable of staying healthy though. So we should come to expect he?ll either get the Kawhi load management treatment, or he?ll be out half the season with random injuries.

[ozgod]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

It still doesn't explain the disparity between JT and JB, and the percentiles are ranked for all wings in the NBA for a certain number of minutes. If it was one season you could explain it away but multiple seasons make it harder to find basketball reasons why his on-off numbers are historically worse than his peers.

The picks aren't worth the 100+ million in salary for someone that has missed more games than he has played the last 2 years and is 36 years old.  There is no way to excuse it for Brad. Sorry. You can't be efficient while your butt is on the bench most of the time

I'm not talking about the picks though. Nor am I trying to judge Brad's judgement or decision. I'm just pointing out the stats that show that over his career JB has been in the bottom 50 percent of wings in terms of his on-off stats. Yes there are plenty of reasons - maybe JB was playing when the opponent's best players were playing, and the players ranked above him were playing against scrubs. Maybe the players ranked above him were playing less minutes and it's easier to be a hero when you play less minutes. But where that argument starts to break down is over the sheer length of the trendlines. We're talking about 10 years of JB's career. Can it really be true that everyone ranked above him in on-off played less minutes, played against worse lineups, all the time?

The reason I brought up PG13 and JB in the comparison is because they are all being judged by this metric on what is a supposedly objective standard, being ranked in on-off amongst all their peers,  not just against each other. If you disagree with the metric that's fine, but there's a big enough data sample in there to make it an objective measurement.

If you want, you can nominate a player that you feel is a better comparison for Jaylen, someone who's a No1A, who plays a lot, who does the same things he does, and plays similar minutes and games, and I will find their on-off metrics and we can see where that player is ranked.

[Jiri Welsch]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

It still doesn't explain the disparity between JT and JB, and the percentiles are ranked for all wings in the NBA for a certain number of minutes. If it was one season you could explain it away but multiple seasons make it harder to find basketball reasons why his on-off numbers are historically worse than his peers.

The picks aren't worth the 100+ million in salary for someone that has missed more games than he has played the last 2 years and is 36 years old.  There is no way to excuse it for Brad. Sorry. You can't be efficient while your butt is on the bench most of the time

I'm not talking about the picks though. Nor am I trying to judge Brad's judgement or decision. I'm just pointing out the stats that show that over his career JB has been in the bottom 50 percent of wings in terms of his on-off stats. Yes there are plenty of reasons - maybe JB was playing when the opponent's best players were playing, and the players ranked above him were playing against scrubs. Maybe the players ranked above him were playing less minutes and it's easier to be a hero when you play less minutes. But where that argument starts to break down is over the sheer length of the trendlines. We're talking about 10 years of JB's career. Can it really be true that everyone ranked above him in on-off played less minutes, played against worse lineups, all the time?

The reason I brought up PG13 and JB in the comparison is because they are all being judged by this metric on what is a supposedly objective standard, being ranked in on-off amongst all their peers,  not just against each other. If you disagree with the metric that's fine, but there's a big enough data sample in there to make it an objective measurement.

If you want, you can nominate a player that you feel is a better comparison for Jaylen, someone who's a No1A, who plays a lot, who does the same things he does, and plays similar minutes and games, and I will find their on-off metrics and we can see where that player is ranked.

How about Jamal Murray?

[ozgod]

It's easier to be more effective when you hardly play, and your offensive load is way less.

It still doesn't explain the disparity between JT and JB, and the percentiles are ranked for all wings in the NBA for a certain number of minutes. If it was one season you could explain it away but multiple seasons make it harder to find basketball reasons why his on-off numbers are historically worse than his peers.

The picks aren't worth the 100+ million in salary for someone that has missed more games than he has played the last 2 years and is 36 years old.  There is no way to excuse it for Brad. Sorry. You can't be efficient while your butt is on the bench most of the time

I'm not talking about the picks though. Nor am I trying to judge Brad's judgement or decision. I'm just pointing out the stats that show that over his career JB has been in the bottom 50 percent of wings in terms of his on-off stats. Yes there are plenty of reasons - maybe JB was playing when the opponent's best players were playing, and the players ranked above him were playing against scrubs. Maybe the players ranked above him were playing less minutes and it's easier to be a hero when you play less minutes. But where that argument starts to break down is over the sheer length of the trendlines. We're talking about 10 years of JB's career. Can it really be true that everyone ranked above him in on-off played less minutes, played against worse lineups, all the time?

The reason I brought up PG13 and JB in the comparison is because they are all being judged by this metric on what is a supposedly objective standard, being ranked in on-off amongst all their peers,  not just against each other. If you disagree with the metric that's fine, but there's a big enough data sample in there to make it an objective measurement.

If you want, you can nominate a player that you feel is a better comparison for Jaylen, someone who's a No1A, who plays a lot, who does the same things he does, and plays similar minutes and games, and I will find their on-off metrics and we can see where that player is ranked.

How about Jamal Murray?

Here are Jamal Murray's on-off stats, as well as his ranking in on-off relative to all players. He's basically always been in the top 20th %ile of players in terms of on-off, last season he was in the top 13% (87th %ile).

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[ozgod]

Let me provide some context. Here's the on-off for the whole team last season. Maybe Jaylen happened to play with the baddies most of the time, which brought his numbers down.

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BTW all these advanced metrics are from Cleaning the Glass, which is what folks like Zach Lowe, Zach Kram, John Hollinger and others use. If you have a subscription you can access it all.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/